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arab_joe

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6 Sandbagger

About arab_joe

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    Member

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  • Your Location
    Dubai, UAE

Your Golf Game

  • Handicap Index
    14.2
  • Handedness
    Righty

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299 profile views
  1. Was this a legal eagle

    https://www.randa.org/RulesEquipment/Rules/QuickGuide/Ball-at-Rest-Moved My understanding is that your ball should have been replaced, to the fringe of the green, and you should have putted from there.
  2. Dress Codes: Good or Bad for the Game

    I have ignored the fact that there are dress codes "virtually everywhere in life" because I do not see the relevance; the discussion is whether they are good for the game of golf... and yes, I am aware that my view is in the (pretty small) minority but that alone is not going to dissuade me.
  3. Dress Codes: Good or Bad for the Game

    I'm influenced by appearances in certain situations... but I'm pretty confident that I'm not positively influenced to attend/spend a course because of the dress sense (which, ironically, frequently doesn't improve simply by complying with a dress code - some of the unfortunate sunglasses/visor/polo shirt/loud trouser/white sock combinations are amongst the worst outfits I have ever seen, anywhere) of its players. It really is as simple as that. Your 15 years' of experience certainly trumps my anecdotal views/opinions! It would be interesting (to me, at least, in my geeky obsession with the sustainability of golf) to see how such a course would be impacted by implementing a dress code. This popped up on my Twitter feed over the weekend, from one of the UK golf websites; I thought it was an interesting interview with someone far more knowledgeable than me: https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/news/denis-pugh-golf-dress-codes/
  4. Dress Codes: Good or Bad for the Game

    I feel like we are going around in circles, so to avoid boring the forum's readers I will keep this short. My opinions are that: Golf etiquette is far more important than golf attire; In answer to the question, on the balance I believe that restricting golfers to a dress code puts off more people than it pleases, therefore overall is bad for the game of golf; I have never knowingly chosen a golf course because of the way people dress there, but have avoided golf courses because of their strict dress code; To take away someone's right, i.e. to choose what to wear on a golf course, should require some evidence that the restriction is likely to have a positive impact; and Studies that show that school children behave better in schools that have a school uniform is not, in my view, sufficient evidence to justify dress codes on golf courses. I don't think that anyone is advocating the flaunting of a dress code that is in place (and some, like me, dress smartly on the golf course even where there is no dress code - but still believe that someone being entitled to wear what he or she likes to is good for the game...), I think people are just hypothesising about whether or not the existence of dress codes is likely to be good or bad for the game of golf. There is no definitive answer, so the debate will likely go on a while (and evolve as norms shift)...
  5. Dress Codes: Good or Bad for the Game

    I'm well aware of what marketing is (and am as guilty as anyone at being "targeted" and ending up buying a Nike polo shirt for a crazy amount because I see Rory wearing it on a golf course, but that's another story...) but have never been swayed by the existence of a dress code or by what others are wearing on a golf course. In my 28 years of golf club membership nothing anyone has worn has ever offended me, nor has anyone's great style convinced me to part with my cash at their course, but on a number of occasions I have not spent money that I wanted to because I (or someone I was with) fell foul of a pedantic or arbitrary rule. To clarify, my experiences are limited to golf courses in Scotland, Portugal and the UAE, but I would imagine that most golfers will have a similar story to tell. But you did use those same studies to justify why dress codes are good for the game of golf, so perhaps it is not just me that sees thing that aren't there... At least we all seem to agree that behaviour is far more important than attire on the golf course! I think we will have to agree to disagree on the dress code, though. I'm yet to see any evidence that people playing on courses with dress codes (i) behave better; and (ii) do so because of the dress code that the course has. I am open to being convinced. Until that day, I hope that dress codes continue to be relaxed because, in my opinion, I think such a move will attract more players than it will put off (which is the original question posed in this topic)...
  6. Dress Codes: Good or Bad for the Game

    I apologise, I misinterpreted your above post as meaning dress codes were significant to you. If you were referring to the business side of golf courses, that would certainly be something interesting to read into, i.e. whether profits, participation, prestige etc. are positively or negatively impacted by relaxing dress codes. I've never seen anything to suggest that a relaxed dress code was detrimental to a golf club, but am more than happy to be educated/corrected. Especially as, from my personal experience (me alone; I am not claiming to know the ins and outs of every golf course on the planet...), I have seen the opposite - in St Andrews, for example, all of the private golf clubhouses have had to make changes to increase accessibility (i.e. no need for a jacket, denims allowed, soft spikes allowed) as they were losing so much business to the Links Trust clubhouses that allowed every man and his dog to come in for a pint and a pie. Respectfully, I do not buy that there are multiple studies that show that: (i) behaviour on golf courses is better at golf courses that have dress codes; and (ii) the improvement in behavioural standards at those golf courses is down to the fact that there is a dress code. The studies that you allude to, i.e. those about school children, are not a fair comparison. A child that is obligated to attend school is in a completely different situation to anyone choosing which golf course to play at. Children are often encouraged to wear a uniform so that they are not a target for bullies, so that rich and poor are indistinguishable, to teach discipline etc. - I doubt any golf course with a dress code with the same aim. The analogy with bowling is more apt, but importantly my understanding is that their shoe rule is for the protection of the flooring - beyond that you're free to wear jeans, or shorts, or any other item that may or may not improve your bowling action. It is up to the bowler. Although I personally always wear over-priced Footjoy polo shirts and wouldn't dream of swinging a club in jeans, I respect other golfers enough to think they deserve the autonomy to wear what they please. Many golf traditions have fallen away, I hope dress codes will be next...
  7. Dress Codes: Good or Bad for the Game

    Do you have these studies to hand? I am genuinely intrigued, as I have never seen such a correlation; some of the most unpleasant characters I have ever had the misfortune of being paired up with have been the best dressed, and vice versa. I'm also curious as to why a dress code is so significant to you? Whilst I personally adhere to them 99.9% of the time, I find it bizarre that any adult would care what another was wearing (off the top of my head, the only thing that could be worn on a golf course that I would genuinely object to would be a racist slogan, or something of that ilk).
  8. Dress Codes: Good or Bad for the Game

    I'm not really sure why, but having dress codes for golf courses (both for professionals (see the thread elsewhere about the recent LPGA dress code) and amateurs) annoys me hugely. I fail to see why people shouldn't be free to dress as they please - it is, after all, their score that will be negatively impacted if they choose to wear something that inhibits their swing. It does not bother me at all if I see others wearing jeans, tee shirts, no socks, no belt etc. on the golf course. I'm just happy to see people out enjoying themselves and enjoying the game. What someone else wears impacts me far less than them talking on their mobile phone, failing to repair divots, rake bunkers etc. (and, contrary to some of the comments above, I fail to see any correlation between players in non-traditional dress and poor etiquette). I was recently knocked back from using a driving range in Dubai because I wore my v-neck jumper with a white tee shirt underneath, as opposed to a collared shirt. Even for the driving range they had a steadfast "collar" rule, regardless of the fact I looked (even if I say so myself) relatively smart overall. Needless to say, I haven't been back since and likely won't, as there are plenty of alternative ranges. I have worn the exact same combination on the Old Course, and nobody batted an eyelid because people were, rightly, concentrating on enjoying themselves...
  9. LPGA To Enforce more Strict Dress Code

    And therein lies my hypocrisy... I am all for sponsors having the power to use their invites as they see fit; but I feel uncomfortable with sponsors insisting on the terms of the dress code. It is an arbitrary lie that I have drawn, for sure, but I'm sticking with it I thought that the whole point of a skort was that it couldn't be too short (excuse the pun...) because it provided cover that a skirt does not! Surely it is only a matter of time until the poor skort will become superfluous
  10. LPGA To Enforce more Strict Dress Code

    I guess that's the power that sponsors have on golf - whatever they say goes! A bit like Stephen Curry's recent call up to the Web.com Tour, these new rules on dress seem to have less to do with objective reason or performance or even tradition... and more to do with following the requests of the guys paying the bills. I'm not saying that is wrong (as stated above, sponsorship can do wonderful things for players' games and the game of golf in general) but it is slightly sad, in my view.
  11. LPGA To Enforce more Strict Dress Code

    My point was that, even indirectly, those outfits that are chosen by sponsors and worn by players will improve those players' scores. It may seem tenuous, but if a player has sponsorship then that player will have less financial worries, more time to practice (especially if they are in the "private jet" bracket), better equipment etc. (including, for the likes of Rickie Fowler who has been raised by a number of posters, golf holes in their own gardens!) and that is one of the main reasons that I am against any dress code. Sorry, I think my point got lost in translation. One poster had suggested that tournament sponsors were so upset by the way that LPGA players dress that they were considering withdrawing their financial support, and my response was querying this. I just don't see it (I am no expert in marketing but am willing to be corrected) and your example of Rickie Fowler's orange outfits, flat caps etc. seem perfectly in point; these would not be considered traditional at all, and would likely have been banned if a dress code was brought into effect even 10-15 years ago, but right now they are making Puma loads of money, Fowler loads of money, and helping to grow the game. The big money national/international sponsors likewise would not want to lose customers or potential customers for appearing to condone LPGA dress codes that look like they were drafted in the 1950's by a man... As above, I would suggest that the extra attention, media time etc. will, in the long-term, help the players get sponsored etc. and, as I have outlined above, will help them improve. The best analogy I have would be from snowboarding, where Shaun White was so heavily sponsored that he had the best practice facilities in the snowboarding world; without sponsors he would have been in normal facilities, and would not have been able to develop half of the tricks that he has come up with. Golfers have that same potential, and I don't think that the LPGA should stand in their way. In my opinion, a course that would turn away a professional player, simply because they're showing their arms, wearing a short skirt, jeans etc. is crazy; and more of a problem than the LPGA dress code. But I admit that I am probably very biased. I am a member of some amazing ancient courses in Scotland, and they're more relaxed than some of the (pretty dreadful) modern courses that I play here in Dubai; having to wear a collar in extreme heat, having to wear a belt at all times etc. It annoys me so, so much...
  12. LPGA To Enforce more Strict Dress Code

    I know that it is an extreme example, but I really would not have an objection to an LPGA Tour (or PGA Tour, for that matter) player wearing a bikini if they wanted to. These are professional athletes, who are we to tell them what will or will not improve their scores? Sponsorship is an interesting angle; do you really think that sponsors of professional golf tournaments are concerned about what the players are wearing? I doubt it. I don't see anything offensive being worn, just players trying no ways to stay cool, swing easier, look good etc. Is it not also the case these days that the majority of players will have their outfits chosen by sponsors (this is my hunch but I may well be wrong - that definitely seems to be the case towards the top end of the men's tour) and not the other way around? As for the "short" shorts, I have no idea how they improve scores. But I would imagine that they would help, otherwise why would anyone wear them to a professional golf tournament where the objective is to score as low as possible (and the players' livelihood depends on that)? I am not cynical enough to believe that LPGA Tour professionals are choosing outfits in tournaments just to satisfy drooling spectators...
  13. LPGA To Enforce more Strict Dress Code

    I would imagine that a professional golfer wears an outfit that the professional deems will giver the best chance of victory in the tournament. Whether that is because of comfort (i.e. the shorts in my example), style (i.e. confidence derived from the way that he or she looks), or even financial (i.e. a sponsor pays the professional to wear something, and sponsorship helps the player with his or her career) does not really matter to me. I may be being overly naïve, but I think that a professional striving to improve their scores is more important than tradition. Doctors used to wear ties in surgery (until they realized how unhealthy that was) and lawyers used to wear hats even in the office (until, one assumes, they realized how weird that was) and other such examples are apparent in every profession, but these things change with the times. I hope that golf will do the same as, in my view, it will have a positive knock-on effect to those considering taking up the sport.
  14. LPGA To Enforce more Strict Dress Code

    I find it astonishing that professional athletes aren't left alone to choose their own outfit for optimal performance. If a player is going to score better in yoga pants, sleeveless tops or jeans (or anything else, for that matter) then I think they should be allowed to. And, for what it's worth, I think the same principle should apply on all of the tours - when I go to my local tournaments (the HSBC Championship in Abu Dhabi and the Omega Ladies Masters/Desert Classic/DP World Championships in Dubai) a number of players look uncomfortable in the heat and seem far more relaxed in shorts during practice rounds. It may not be a position universally supported, but I tend to think that the dress-codes, rules etc. that have been a part of golf and golf clubs for centuries are archaic and holding the sport back.
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