Moxley

@iacas , @klineka Thank you both for detailed posts, if I can fairly summarise your points, I think they'd be as follows : 3h isn't a much more difficult shot to hit than 6i 6i (or ones reliable clubs) will sometimes go wrong, maybe more often than anticipated Penalty shots come into play less often than imagined 20y from a poorer lie has a better expectation than 50 from a better lie. Proximity to the hole matters, not just avoiding hazards. There's a lot going on here, and while some of these points seem logical, it's the overall combination and probability of each that matters. What makes me unconvinced is that the conclusion doesn't match my own game - yes, I know , sample size of 1, but bear with me. I play a ton of solo rounds where I a/b test these types of things, and going for it leads to blowout holes too often. Stuff goes wrong when I layup too, but less often and rarely to the same degree. It's not like I haven't tried both approaches many times. I see similar things with other players I play with, although I pay less attention to what they are doing. Now, it's possible that I don't understand my own game as well as I think I do (though I think this unlikely - I devote a lot of attention to understanding it) , and it's also possible that I'm not typical of an average golfer. Either way, there's a disconnect between what you are saying and my observations ,and while I'm always open to changing my viewpoint, I'm reluctant to do so on the basis of PGA tour stats, because I don't feel they are representative of average golfers.

They do not - I said reliably. I can hit a 6 iron reliably, but beyond that, it starts to tail off. If my 6 iron gets my to 50 yards out, then I need a 3 hybrid to to 20 yards - a harder shot and for what? just being a bit closer. Whether I can get the 20 yard shot closer will depend on the lie and whether I now need to lob over bunkers. I'd take on more risk with the initial shot, to potentially leave myself with another risky shot. A straight shot from 50 to 70 yards, on the other hand, in a good lie (fairway or primary rough), really isn't that hard. How do you know the concept remains the same? Most things vary by handicap level , including shot zones. When the shot zone width widens to the point that it will bring into play penalty shots, the expectation is going to jump up.

I actually find it easy to keep the hybrid low - I just don't hit it as hard ,and it never really gets up, but still pops off the face fast enough to make some progress.

Being in the bunker may be better than being 115 yards out, but I don't really see that as the choice. If I can just about reach with a fairway wood, then the layup would be with a mid-iron that would leave me 50-70 yards. I generally get as close as I can with a shot that I can execute reliably, and does take on the greenside trouble. I also don't see the bunker as the worst case scenario with a fairway wood - the worst case scenario is a ball out of play, with a bunker shot being the middle scenario.

Yep, totally agree.

I didn't assume , I said some - these are the cases where not going for is a no-brainer. I still don't often see the value in the ones that a more like the streched par 4's , because the 2nd shot will be over 200 yds, and my shot pattern once I go past the 6 iron (150-155 yds) is going to widen quickly, and by the time I pick up a 5 wood penalty shots are going to come into play as well as the regular 'in play' trouble. But I'm going to be able to hit 7 iron / wedge with good reliability AND sometimes have the option of taking danger out of the tee shot with less club. Not always of course - it depends. Who is Andrew Norrby? is he the UK distributor of the book? From what I've heard the book is great, but I do wish there was a ebook version available because electronic is a format that I prefer.

Overrated - for the majority of golfers who need a wood (or long hybrid) to reach in 2, they will both poor at escaping trouble and proficient at hitting wedges/short irons , making the layup a better choice for getting par. Short misses are a particular problem since some par 5's have a hazard short, and it's probably the most popular miss. For those who can hit their 5 irons 200 yards , sure, but then that's the minority, and I still feel they'd often only gain a little on laying up.

Yes, good to see him make the weekend 👍

Yes , always a bit more fun when you can finish that disaster hole by trying to splash it in from the bunker for 9 😎

Might not be able to see much of this, but hoping that Rose can do well enough to regain #1

I think just over 1 ball on average ; many rounds it's none, sometimes 1 or 2. I try and play carefully.

Very fair, although my point wasn't that they didn't let me play through, but rather that they never looked back, and didn't seem to have insight into this. Again, no problems for me on the day, but I can see on other days, with different people involved, that would cause frustration and discord.

Interesting thread. I agree with the point that trying to hunt an angle from >200 yards out is unwise, but I wonder whether there is a point where it does become feasible. There are a few holes on my home course where I'll need to layup on a long par 4 because I've hit a poor tee shot.and there's a dip or something before the green. On these I'll normally try and pick a side to come in from with my layup, given i'll only be hitting a short iron. I can't say I've never found trees doing that, but equally the instances are rare, and the advantage of having an easy shot with my wedge seems worthwhile.

An unusual game. If you can drive with that accuracy, hit your irons good distances and have a good short game, you ought to be able to score well despite relatively poor putting. Are you incurring a lot of penalties?

I think attitude is the basic problem here , too many people just aren't good at talking to people and resolving issues pleasantly. I played the other day in the afternoon, and is typical for my solo rounds I didn't have a booking but knew the course was clear from checking booking system earlier. Checked in a pro shop who OK'd me to go out right away - there were 2 booking now but spread across 3 slots, so I had the middle one. I arrived at the tee just as group 1 drove off, and noted that one player was stopping to hit a shot about 50 yards ahead of the tee box. They then proceeded to hit a series of bad shots between them until they got over the hill, where a typical bogey golfer would put their first stroke. At no point did they look back while hacking around on the way to their triple bogeys, which really should be standard when you're having a bad hole. Meanwhile the next group arrive at the tee and ask me (ball on tee, driver in hand) if I had booking - I confirm that the pro shop had authorised me and that I was giving the group ahead time to finish as they hadn't looked back and were playing slow. One guy grumbles to the other about how there's no point making a booking - it's still about 5 minutes before their slot comes up. In the end, they begrudgingly accept that as I'm on my own it's probably better for me to play first, and I get on my way. I catch up with the group ahead as they are leaving the tee on hole 2 - as always at this early stage I simply smile without asking to go ahead, and fortunately they say 'well, if you're that confident that you can go ahead of us', as If I'm the one playing fast, rather than them playing slow and not looking. I didn't come out of nowhere , they just never looked back. Of course, I happily accept their offer and get on my way. Although I got through those groups quickly, it did seem harder than it needs to be. Had I been the first group I'd have been embarrassed at holding somebody up without realising (rather than worrying about how quickly I might play through them), and had I been the in second group I wouldn't have issue with a single player going out 5 minutes before my tee time, especially If I'd only made my booking in the last couple of hours. It's like people just want to do their own thing, ignoring the reality that they are sharing a public space with others.