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2 Sandbagger

About 2turnswish

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    Ft. Worth, TX

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  1. John Jacobs Incorrect Ball Flight Laws

    Look Iacas why don't you stop with the ****'s sake and my head in the sand. In fact why don't you stay off my comments. You haven't proven a thing to my satisfaction. Your "reality" diagram shows the ball going intially right with the face pointed dead down the target line! What made the ball go right? Huh? Now if you cannot reply civilly or need the use of more labels or profanity then ****you! Jacobs may have got it wrong, but he corrected a hell of a lot more golfers than you ever will. And he was a hell of alot more humble and gentlemanly than your arrogant a**.
  2. John Jacobs Incorrect Ball Flight Laws

    Show me how you hit a ball that starts left of the target line and then curves to the right of target line. Or conversely a ball to the right of line then back to the left. On the L to R I'll bet you swing to the left and to the right on the second one. You cannot do otherwise. And lay off the rude descriptions of my head being anywhere, you're supposed to be a moderator.
  3. John Jacobs Incorrect Ball Flight Laws

    Hitting a ball slowly with a flat face club is a bit different from swinging much harder with a lofted club, so your experiment is flawed. And as for Jacobs and his ability to teach, diagnose, and correct, IT WORKED! What else needs to be said. Good luck to the modern teachers. I'll take Jacobs, Armour, Jones, Nelson, and good luck to all.
  4. 2turnswish

  5. John Jacobs Incorrect Ball Flight Laws

    So have I and confident in my position and JJ's years of instruction. Merry X-mas.
  6. Not a fan of Haney either, believe he strayed from JJ's fundamentals, which isn't unusual for students. I placed my swing right on JJ and now shoot par golf for my appropriate yardage. Age 66 and only started serious golf 4 years ago, had huge faults, JJ's swing thoughts and principles corrected everyone. I also liked Byron Nelson's book and Tommy Armour's. My best to you.
  7. John Jacobs Incorrect Ball Flight Laws

    No not talking about the stance, but the actual path of the club. I like your experiment, but lets substitute a 4 iron and take many swings starting with along the ground and slowly adding a steeper angle of attack from outside to in and clubface open. Then we'll add speed, putting speed to full out 4 iron swing and then well record ball flight. Let me know how it goes. An Iron Byron would be perfect. All the factors are working dynamically, clubface, swing path, swing speed, angle of attack, and loft. They do not work independently. The final judge, for an instructor, is do suggested swing mechanics work, and I'll see bet my first born that JJ's worked, will work, and always will work. He's not been upsurped nor discredited. Contemporary instructors can only stand beside, not push him over. And it's not so bad beside JJ. My best.
  8. John Jacobs Incorrect Ball Flight Laws

    Lol. Back to square one. Well let me know when your 50 years into your golf teaching profession how many books you've sold, pros you've taught, students you've helped, and if you're in the Hall of Fame. I'll just let the many stars comment on JJ's knowledge of ball flight and controlling it. It's been interesting.
  9. John Jacobs Incorrect Ball Flight Laws

    Look, I'm sure all those golfer, numbering in the thousands, that JJ and his students taught and helped will attest to him and them getting it right. Now as to your example, 10* path right of target and 5* closed face in relation to target, which would be 15* closed to path, bet that would be a smothered ground burner to the left. Surely you meant 5* closed to path which would be a huge draw or hook. The dynamic relationship between swing path, face angle, clubhead speed, angle of attack, type of club, loft and lie is just that dynamic. And John Jacobs understood all these perfectly and taught the fundamentals perfectly and how to fix faults perfectly. His principles have and will stand the test of time, no matter how many monitors record ball flight. His nine possible ball flights, pull, pull draw-hook, pull-fade-slice, straight, straight-fade, straight-draw, push, push-fade-slice, push-draw are and always will help any golfer correct any fundamental that caused that particular ball flight. End of story.
  10. John Jacobs Incorrect Ball Flight Laws

    Exactly as JJ taught and illustrated. So nothing has changed. All the face is doing is modifying the path if it is not squared to the path. The draw starts to the right of the target because that's where you're swinging, path, and if the face is closed to that path then the ball will pick up side spin counterclockwise and turn back to the left, all that final performance of the ball is face angle relative to the path. Same for fade or straight. The nine actions of the ball, as described by JJ, are still as true today, as there were in his time, and always will be. Two forces working in dynamic harmony. And the important thing is how to control them and correct them. For that I refer you to the master, JJ. It's been fun.
  11. John Jacobs Incorrect Ball Flight Laws

    You are so right, "...at some point wrong is wrong...". And anyone believing that the clubface determines the initial ball flight is wrong. Look golf is a target game, A to B. So you want to hit a draw from A to B. And the clubface determines the initial direction and the swing path the curvature. So you swing to the left with an open face, right? I mean that's YOUR definition of ball flight laws. Club face open sends ball right and by swinging left the ball then curves back to the left and there's your draw? No, there's your classic fade or slice. To hit the draw, you swing to the RIGHT with the face closed to the swing path and there goes the ball out to the right, path, and the closed face imparts counterclockwise spin and the ball curves back to the left, a draw. JJ and others never were, nor never will be wrong. You're confusing target line with swing path to define your laws. But again if swing path defined the terminal curvature, which in the case of a draw is to the left, why then are you swinging to the right? By your laws, the ball should go to the right at the end! That's the path. It doesn't, it goes right initially then curves left. Path combined with face, not face combined with path.
  12. John Jacobs Incorrect Ball Flight Laws

    Dudie, JJ said the ball's initial path was relative to the swing path and he WAS EXACTLY RIGHT! And all your monitors will not be able to disprove that correct observation. And all you've done here was prove him right and confuse yourself. That's the facts. You hit a ball out to the right 5*, the clubface is 2* closed, the ball is going right 3* and then will turn left somewhere along the way, depending on other factors. Just as JJ described for many, many, years. And you can test this with any golfer. What you're missing or misdescribing is the influence of the 2* of the closed face. You're confusing yourself, but keep thinking, you'll get it. Maybe. Either way, if you're a good instructor you'll correct a slice or hook the same as JJ taught. Good luck.
  13. John Jacobs Incorrect Ball Flight Laws

    I'm sorry, but in mind and others you have not disproved JJ and others concept of "ball flight laws", rather you have proved them. You're just confusing yourself. But it doesn't matter as the corrections will still be the same as taught by JJ. Good luck.
  14. John Jacobs Incorrect Ball Flight Laws

    Look I appreciate your dedication. But your theory is flawed, as is your determination as to what JJ would recommend. Unfortunately he's passed. But having read all his books he'd not recommend further right to correct a hook, and make you a Bobby Locke, he'd set you straight by correcting the fundamentals and ball position. And yes I still solidily stand behind initial is path, terminal is face "relative to path". You are saying the same, but just cannot see it.
  15. John Jacobs Incorrect Ball Flight Laws

    No he'd have you square your stance for path, make sure where you were aiming the clubface, square, and maybe ease your grip. Look if you aim 10* right, but have clubface 5* left, I guarantee the ball will go right before it goes left. Guaranteed. Now you have the monitors, go test it. The only way that ball is going right is if path is right.

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