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Posts posted by Fairway_CY

  1. I've never really met anybody who minds what others shoot providing they keep a good pace.  If you shoot mid 90's but you spend 5 minutes looking for balls on half the holes or something... they're gonna be ticked.  Beyond that... most will be happy to share a round with a golfer of any skill providing they keep it moving.  


  2. I had a group of friends out to my course yesterday to play.  We had some pretty heavy rains the night before, so it was cart path only throughout our round.  

    In our group, our indexes ranged from around 12 to as high as 18.  We've not horrible golfers, but we're not "point and shoot" golfers either.  

    On the 7th hole, we had one of the guys from our pro shop pull up on us and ask us to move a little faster.  Admittedly, we were about half a stroke behind the group in front of us, so we said we'd pick up the pace.  When we finished the 9th hole, we realized we had played that side in just under 2 hours.  A pretty good pace on a pretty cold day where it's cart path only. 

    We had to wait at the turn for about 10 minutes while our group and the group in front of us grabbed some drinks and whatnot and kept up with the group in front of us with no issues, but on the 13th hole, the same guy drove up on us and again asked us to pick it up.  I was a little frustrated with him because we were on the group ahead of us and then the group behind us was nowhere in sight.  

    We finished in 4 hours and 10 minutes with a 10 minute delay at the turn.  I fail to see how that's to be considered even remotely slow.  I've been a member here for about 15 months and the average round is about 4 hours and 15 minutes... often approaching 4 hours and 30 minutes.  To play as quickly as we did on a cart path only day was more than sufficient in my opinion, especially since we hit our approaches to 18 shortly after the group ahead walked off.  

    I had to apologize to my guests for being pushed.  I'm gonna have to speak to the guys at the course when I'm there next, but... I'm pretty certain that the group behind us called in to the clubhouse on us.  They were on top of us all the way through the 7th hole... then they started to fall back a bit.  

    Still... I don't see how a 4 hour round constitutes being slow.  I feel like that's a good pace and allows me to enjoy the company and the course while not feeling like I'm out of breath or rushing myself to putt out.  

    I know guys who love to play fast and I know guys who are definitely on the slow side.  I like a 4:30 pace, personally... but I'm fine with 4 hours.  I get annoyed when it gets beyond 5 hours... but during tournaments, I regularly see 6 hours.  

    To each his or her own, I suppose.  As long as you're within the 4:00 - 4:30 range, I don't think anybody should be complaining.  


  3. This is always one of my favorite threads each year.  It gives me a chance to get really specific with my goals and then I get to look back on them at the end of the year.  

    Anyway... my 2018 goals are below.

    1. Reduce penalties to fewer than 1 per round.  Last season was my best in this category, but I still averaged 1.39 penalties per round (for almost 2 strokes per round).  I'd like to reduce those numbers to less than 1 penalty and less than 1.5 strokes per round.  A large number of my penalties last year came on the approach shot of the 10th hole of my home course.  The lie is almost always downhill... plus there's a hazard fronting the green and OB very tight to the right side of the green.  I need to work on that shot so that it's no longer in my head.

    2. Increase GIR percentage to greater than 40%.  My ball striking was better last year than ever before, but I still battled some pretty bad misses with clubs longer than my 8 iron.  I finished 2017 hitting 36.28% of my greens in regulation.  To get there, I'm going to have to spend some time with my 5 iron, 6 iron and 7 iron.  A majority of the par 3 holes that I play require the use of those clubs.  Although I don't have a number in my spreadsheet for par 3 GIR percentage, I'd be willing to bet it's lower than what my overall number is.  If I can fix that... I can score better.

    3. Hit greater than 50% of fairways.  I came pretty close last year, hitting 46.64% but I'd like to eclipse the 50% mark this year.  Achieving this goal will make achieving the one above much easier as well.  I've been enamored with increasing my distance, but it hasn't really happened.  I've been right around 235 yards off the tee for the last 3 years.  I need to stop worrying about hitting it further and start worrying more about hitting it where I need to.

    4. Putt better.  This is not a specific target.  It's very broad, but it's a part of my game that confidence is very fleeting.  The average distance of all putts I made last year was only 2.96 feet.  I also had an extremely high number of three-putts.  Finally, I averaged over 35 putts per round.  I would like to get that number below 34 putts per round this season.  It's going to take me spending some time on the practice green at my course, but I'm determined to make this a stronger part of my game in 2018.

    5. Get back to the tournament winner's circle.  In 2016, out of 19 tournaments I played in, I won 2 and placed in the top 4 another 5 times.  In 2017, I played in 15 tournaments overall.  The first 4 were in C Flight where I finished T-10th, 2nd, 1st and 3rd... but then got moved into a more competitive flight due to my index dropping.  In the higher flight, I played 11 tournaments and failed to place in the top 4 in any of them.  I came close a few times but couldn't crack the barrier.  I'd like to get back into the money spots in 2018, so... this is the goal I want to reach the most.

    That's it.  They're all there.  Tomorrow begins my 2018 season.  Time to get cracking on reaching at least a few of these.  


  4. Number 1 is the only way toast should be cut.  Any other way should be considered illegal and the toast should be thrown out.  

    PS - I'm the same as @saevel25.  I don't cut toast when I make it at home.  I fold it in half and eat it that way.  My wife cuts toast and that's the reason I say number 1 is the only way.  That's the only way I've seen her cut it, ever.  


  5. Definitely getting into the 70's.  Actually... getting to 80 would be an accomplishment I've yet to reach.  Since March of 2016, I've got 17 rounds between 81 - 83 but I can't seem to crack that barrier.  One of my good golfing buddies who has a game very similar to mine has shot 79 twice this year (the first 2 times he's done it in his life).  I'm convinced that I CAN do it... I just haven't been able to yet.  Another friend of mine who regularly shoots 90+ shot a 78 earlier this year as well (and I believe he's got 5 or 6 sub-80 rounds under his belt in his life).  

    I've focused on not counting my scores up until the end... but I subconsciously know when I'm at or near the 80 mark.  It's gonna happen... I've just got to buckle down and focus on making better decisions.  


  6. I'm in the 'never' camp.  I play one brand and one model until I don't anymore.  Also... I've played golf for almost 24 years now and I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've ever purchased golf balls at a course.  Gloves?  Sure.  Tees?  Yep.  I've even purchased a few hats here and there.  Very rarely have I purchased golf balls.  Usually, it's an 'emergency' because I forgot to put some in my bag or something.


  7. Generally, I'm laying up if there's a reason I shouldn't be going for it.  Using my home course par 5's as examples...

    #3 is too long for me to get at in 2 strokes... but there's no real trouble to prevent me from hitting my 3 wood and getting as close to the green as possible, so I almost always go driver - 3 wood at this point.  

    #7 is very reachable... but if my drive is struck abnormally well, it may run into the cross-bunkers which will prevent me from going for it.  Typically, this hole is driver - 4 iron for me and I'm either on or around the green in 2 strokes.  

    #13 is the longest of the par 5 holes at my course and also plays slightly uphill.  I've been within 3 yards of the front of the green once.  Similar to #3... there's no real trouble.  The only major problem would be if my drive is up the left side and then I'm blocked out by the tree over there.  That requires a big, quick hook... or a low punch, so... I'll play 4 iron at that point.  Otherwise... driver - 3 wood.  

    #15 is short and I can get there providing my drive is up the right side.  If I'm in the proper position... it's going to be driver - hybrid or driver - 4 iron in most cases.  The only trouble is if you're way offline, so... low risk.  

    When I'm at another course and there's a forced carry over water or some other hazard to get to the green... I won't attempt it unless the carry is 205 or less.  I don't hit my 3 wood very high... so carrying it over 205 yards is difficult.  No need to bring that trouble into play.  I'll lay up to a safe spot and then go in from there.  

    As far as bunkers and stuff around the greens... often times, I'll actually aim for a bunker.  I don't mind being in bunkers most of the time.  

    Lie is a definite factor.  Out of the rough... I won't attempt it with my 3 wood unless it's propped up.  If the ball is on a downhill slope... same thing, I'm almost guaranteed to hit it low on the face or top it.  

    I guess just about anything can be a factor.  How do I feel that day?  Weather conditions.  How I'm scoring at that point in my round... do I need to be aggressive to get strokes back or should I be conservative to not kill momentum?  

    I'm a headcase.


  8. I use my 4 iron more often than any other club for this situation.  That said... it'll vary depending upon the lie.  If it's really sitting down in something, I'll deloft a 7 iron.  A typical situation, though... it'll usually be a 4 iron. 


  9. Probably not the best shot of the week for me last week, but certainly the most satisfying... 

    13th Hole - Par 5 - 525 Yards

    I've played out at this course for just over a year now.  I've told most of the guys I play with that the 13th hole is out of reach for me in two.  I absolutely pured a drive off this tee on Friday afternoon.  It was measured at 287 yards.  The pin was up front that day, so I was sitting about 220 yards from the hole.  Typically, if there is no trouble... I'll pull my 3 wood anywhere up to 240 yards and just try to get it close.  Average 3 wood off the deck for me goes around 220 or so.  On this hole, there is a narrow opening to the green with deep traps on either side of the fairway a the front of the green.  I hit one of the best 3 wood shots of my life there.  It never left the pin and rolled up to within an inch of the front of the green.  I was left with about 20 feet from there for eagle.  I left that just a bit short but left myself a tap-in for birdie.  

    Like I said... it probably wasn't the best shot of my week, but it felt great to execute when my partner was in his pocket on that hole.  


  10. I guess it depends.  There are 2 golf versions of me.  

    The 'everyday' me and the 'competitive' me.  

    If I'm out with buddies and we're playing for fun or for a small amount of money or something... I'm the quiet guy who stands back and lets everybody else throw the one-liners around.  I'm not as quick-witted as a lot of my friends are... but every once in awhile, I'll throw one out there.  That's usually when the biggest reactions come because I'm the least likely in our group to do that.  Still... that's my favorite time to golf.  When it's just buddies and we're all just having fun.  

    If I'm playing in a tournament... I like to focus.  I'll still have fun and I'm never the guy who anybody would complain about playing with (at least I hope I'm not)... but, I like to keep my mind on the task at hand.  I find that if I let my mind wander even a little bit, I'm likely to have a double jump up and bite me.  I've been trying really hard to avoid doubles whenever possible because they're my score killer.

    With either version of me... noise doesn't bother me (unless someone is banging pots & pans as I'm starting my downswing or something).  I also don't worry about shadows from others or if anybody steps in my line.  It happens.  It's never been intentional when someone has done it.  I can't ever remember a putt where I looked back afterwards and said to myself... "if that guy didn't just walk on my line, it would have gone in"... so, walk where you may.  I'm not gonna say anything unless it's habitual.  


  11. On 9/28/2017 at 11:35 AM, RandallT said:

    Hey, @Fairway_CY - this is an example of practice that is fun. What I was trying to express in your thread on your lack of patience with practicing.  It has been a bit tedious (and slow, particular with an injury), but fun when you see glimpses of successful results. Experts (evolvr/Erik/Mike/etc) have pointed me to fix the things above, and it's been slow, but rewarding to make a little bit of progress. Next, it's on to faster swings and then take it to the course. Plus all the inevitable corrections that come next. Who knows, maybe I'm taking a step back on something else while I'm doing this, but I've learned that it's easier to go back and fix something that you've fixed before than it is to start fresh on a new priority. Just wanted to give you a hard time! :-P

    No doubt, man!  I'm not a patient person.  People ask me why I don't play poker at the club and the answer is because of my lack of patience.  My wife always says if she could change something in me, she'd either choose to make me more patient or less competitive.  

    I think she'd elect to make me less competitive, personally... but, I know I lack patience, for sure!  

    I even struggled to not fast forward your video to finally see you take a swing, so... yeah.  The good thing is that the pro at our club works with guys like me all the time.  He's told me that he already has a few things he'd like to see me work on, but he won't say anything until after my final tournament because he knows I don't want to go into it with any 'stray' thoughts bouncing around my skull.  


  12. I've taken a lot of these suggestions and put them into practice.  I spent a good amount of time around the short game area on Tuesday morning.  I played games to keep myself engaged and never got bored.  I had to leave after about 90 minutes because I got a weird pain between my calf and my ankle of my left leg.  

    I then went out on Wednesday morning and played nine, but I had to leave again because of the same pain.  I played really, really poorly.  Like... 52 poor.  I felt like I couldn't swing the club through the ball because of the pain in my leg.  

    I was completely off of work today, so... I spent the morning on the course.  I played 27 holes.  

    The first nine was tough.  I struggled with a lot of my game.  Off the tee, I was wild... but in play.  On the greens, I really struggled.  The speed of my putts was horrible.  I shot a 47 there... but I started to feel more comfortable over the last 2-3 holes.  The back side was totally different.  I narrowly missed a par putt on the 10th hole... then three-putted the 11th for back-to-back bogeys.  Then, it started to click again.  I made par on 12, 13, 14 and 15.  On the 16th, I hit a good chip from just in front of the green, but once the ball got near the hole, it gathered steam and finished 17 feet away, so... I settled for a bogey.  A poor tee shot to the 17th resulted in a bogey before I finally got up & down for a par on the 18th to post a 40 on the back.  

    As I was packing up my clubs, one of the members asked if I had time for 9 more, so... seeing as I had nothing to do, I went back out.  I hit 6 of 9 greens and managed to get up & down on 2 of the 3 holes I missed the greens.  I did three-putt the 6th hole, but... that was just mental and I rushed the par putt.  An unlucky kick on the 9th after I hit the pin and it kicked 15 feet backwards instead of settling 4-5 feet away.  I shot 38 there.  

    I really didn't want to leave, but... I had to go so I could be home when my daughter got home from school.  

    Providing the weather allows, I'm going to spend some more time in the mornings next week at the short game area of the club to see if I can get things together before the final tournament of the season in less than 2 weeks. 


  13. 18 minutes ago, RandallT said:

    I've played on and off my whole life un-seriously, and I've always been about the same. Then again, why would I get better if I'm not really changing anything? I decided that my home-grown "swing my swing" mechanics have hit their limit, so I've been pretty determined to just do what it takes to get better. It has definitely been more difficult than I had thought it would be, but I think I'm improving and changing things- even if not as fast as I had hoped. If nothing else, I'm certainly aware of what I need to do more than I was!

    We're definitely on the opposite ends of that spectrum.  I love to be on the course.  I used to love to go to the range and beat balls over and over.  I enjoyed going to the practice green at a local course to putt just to get away.  It was a monetary decision, though.  It was cheaper to buy a large basket of balls for $12 than to go to the course and pay $45 to play 18 holes.  Since I've joined a club and I have access to play whenever I want, I just find it more fun to get out and play.  

    I've improved quickly by being in different spots and having to teach myself certain shots.  I was never able to draw the ball on command before I joined there... but the course has a number of holes that require a draw, so... I had to learn it or my scores would suffer.  Now, when I'm in a tournament and I need to hit a draw... I can with pretty good consistency.  It may not always be pretty... but it's better than not having the shot at all.  

    So... now that I've improved to where I am, I'm looking to pick up strokes on the other things.  My stats show me that I struggle in certain areas.  I tend to try and work on those areas when I DO practice, but... like my original post mentioned, I get bored easily.  

    15 minutes ago, WUTiger said:

    If you find the course fairly empty on an afternoon, play some holes and practice situationals.

    Do you have a hole with four greenside bunkers that you often bogie? Well, drop two or three balls in each bunker and see how close to the pin you can get. You may realize that the 56* is ideal for three, but the fourth bunker requires a 60* because you need to get the ball up quickly.

    Do you have a dogleg that gives you trouble? Hit a couple of shots each with a driver, 3W and hybrid, see which one sets you up best for the second shot.

    A short par 4 dogleg right that lasers out to 190 yards at the corner. Can you readily get the ball up high enough to cut the corner and get an easy chip for up and down? Try it with driver and 3W and see if it works.

    If you normally fade the ball, can you hit a teeshot draw into a fairway that drains all the tee shots off to the right? Try it out during on-course practice.

    This is something that I do on the course pretty regularly... although in a 'playing' situation.  I don't drop balls and try shots like that, but... it's something I'll likely be doing over the winter.

    8 minutes ago, caniac6 said:

    ... but a nice enjoyable walk with my friends is much more important to me than a score.

    I completely understand what you're saying.  I'm just not capable of not competing.  When money was tight, I played a lot of video games with friends because once I owned the $50 game... I could play it as much as I liked.  It's the same reason I play tournaments now... I just want to win.  I'm fueled by success and motivated by failure.  Golf certainly gives me more motivation than fuel.  

    That's what led me here to post this.  I'm motivated to succeed in 3 weeks when I go play a 3 day tournament against about 200 other people all with similar handicaps to my own.  I have a huge desire to get better and actually get to Hilton Head and find myself in contention.  


    I love the input, guys.  Keep it coming!


  14. 1 minute ago, iacas said:

    I doubt that the short game is that much of a glaring weakness.

    I like the ideas you mentioned above... especially the 18 holes of up & down from various, difficult lies.  

    As for the short game, right now it's definitely hurting my scores.  Prior to this weekend, I went over my last 17 scorecards and I counted 53 putts from 6 feet and in that I missed over those 17 rounds.  A lot of them were 3 and 4 feet.  I didn't bother going through the short game misses, but I can count at least 8 times over the 2 rounds I played this weekend where I was greenside (or close to it) and I hit especially poor shots.  

    Overall, I converted just 1 of 15 up & down opportunities for the 2 day tournament and I finished 8 strokes behind the winner.  It's been a weakness for awhile.  I took a short game lesson the Friday before last that has me at least making clean contact and not hitting it fat anymore... but my tendency now is to hit it 15 - 25 feet past the hole.

    I'm gonna play 18 tomorrow morning and then on Wednesday morning before meetings, I'm gonna spend some time at the short game area and I'll try out what you listed.  That should keep me engaged.  

    I've got a 3 day member guest event Thursday, Friday and Saturday... so, I'll have plenty of on course time too.  

    Thanks for the suggestions.  Simple, but not something I would have thought of doing on my own.  It's in my wheelhouse too because I like to keep scores and stats, so... I can do that with an up & down challenge like that.


  15. I'm glad to know that at least I'm not alone in my boredom.  

    @iacas - I'm certainly not content.  That's the primary reason for my post.  I want to practice more.  I would just like to find a way to keep it interesting so I'm not looking to bail after only 30 minutes or so.  My course is a 35 minute drive from my house, so... driving 35 minutes to practice for an equal amount of time and then driving back become tedious.  I'd like to spend at least an hour (closer to 90 minutes) around the short game area really building confidence in the areas of my game that I'm struggling the most with.  


  16. For some reason, I have absolutely no problem going out on the course alone and enjoying 3 hours of hitting a shot and leisurely walking to hit the next one.  I'm at peace.  I'm happy.  I'm focused.  That said... I don't really 'practice' on the course.  Each time I step on a course, I'm trying to post a score.  Doesn't matter if I'm alone, playing with a friend, playing a match at the club or playing in a tournament.  I want to post the best score I can.  

    That pretty much leaves the range and practice areas to work on my game.  Currently, I'm working on having more confidence on and around the green.  That means hitting a ton of chip shots to try and ingrain the feel I need to be able to step over the ball and know I'm going to hit is crisply and with the right amount of spin.  It means tediously putting hundreds of 6 footers so they no longer jump up and get me during competition rounds.  

    The problem is... I get bored easily when doing that.  Now, if I've got someone with me and I can make a competition out of it... I can stand there for a few hours.  I did it last year in Hilton Head with 2 of my buddies.  We went to one of the courses we were going to be playing... stood on the putting green and just hit putts for 2 hours while making a game of it.  Then we spent another hour at the short game area playing what was essentially a game of HORSE.  

    I've tried to make it a game when I'm by myself, but... it only lasts so long before I'm bored.  I start looking at my phone... looking up at the clubhouse to see who is heading into the 19th hole... or even worse, packing up to head home.  I'd love to just say that I can bring a buddy to the course with me, but... most of my practice is on weekdays when my wife is at work and I'm between meetings or visits.  Most of my golf buddies are at work... and when they aren't, they just want to play.  

    How do you guys keep your practice sessions interesting?  Am I alone in my boredom?  


  17. ... well, it was clarity for me, anyway.  

    I've been going through a slump recently.  After finally achieving a single digit index, it's been all downhill for the last 3 weeks or so.  Off the tee, I developed a quick hook that I couldn't get rid of.  Everywhere else, I've struggled to strike the ball solidly.  

    On the 5th hole this morning, I was in the rough up the left hand side.  I had 193 yards to the hole and the ball was kind of sunken down a bit, but the back of the ball was exposed.  I took a few practice swings, and then it hit me that I needed to play this like a fairway bunker shot.  I needed to make sure the contact to the back of the ball was clean and that I accelerated through the ball.  I hit a low 4 iron that ran up into the green side trap.  Other than the fact that I pulled it a bit (the rough closed the club face just enough), I played it exactly as I'd wanted to.  

    2 holes later, I had 130 to a flag in the back corner of the green.  This specific green is hard and the ball always releases.  Again, I was in the rough... but this one was sitting cleaner.  I had that same swing thought, playing it like it was a fairway bunker shot, and I hit a great shot with a pitching wedge that landed just shy of the pin and released to about 20 feet.  

    For the rest of the round, that was my thought standing over the ball with an iron.  I've been pretty good out of fairway traps for awhile now.  I don't know why it never clicked with me before today.  I hit crisper irons today than I have for the last month.  I scored like crap (a lot of shots were going further and I was left with tough up & down chances), but... striking the ball felt good again.  

    Chances are that I'll forget this again in the near future, or some other 'masterful' swing thought will take over... but, for now... at least I feel like I'm headed in the right direction.


  18. I have a buddy who seems to go through this every year about this time.  Like clockwork, he makes mention of how the game is becoming a chore, it's no fun, etc.  I tell him to step away for a bit.  Usually, a break of a few days, weeks or months rekindles the passion.  

    Like that old saying... "if you love someone, let them go"... if they return, blah, blah, blah.  It's kinda the same here.  Step away.  If the love for the game returns... great.  If not... there are many other things you can turn your attention to.  

    Forcing it will result in more frustration.  


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  19. At our club... 'That Guy' is the guy who is constantly unhappy, regardless of the outcome of his shots.  He's a 15 who 'used to be a 2'.  He's incapable of completing a swing without slamming or throwing his club in disgust.  He's the reason there are putter marks on the greens.  He's the guy you pray you don't get paired with when you play in events.  He's the guy who will seek out the head groundskeeper to inform him of his struggles around the 16th green because his ball ended up sitting down a bit and he feels it's due to a conditioning error by the crew.  He's the guy in the 19th hole who never seems to have anyone seated near him.  

    At our club... 'That Guy' is a douchebag.  


  20. 8 minutes ago, NM Golf said:

    Are you, by any chance, running for public office? That's literally the most PC post I have ever seen on this site. :-P

    Unfortunately, its also a load of :poo: lots of people suck at golf. I would say a majority of people suck at golf. As a starter at a municipal golf course I am an expert on people sucking at golf, I have seen hundreds of them. ;-)

    Haha!  Nope... the most political I get is when I vote for Pro Bowl players.  


    As a starter at a public course, I'm sure you've seen some things.  I used to REALLY suck at golf... now I only kinda suck at golf, so... I like to take the 'glass half full' approach with things golf related.  


  21. Count me among the group that doesn't have a preference where others stand.  I also seem to get a lot of apologies from others who may make a comment to someone else in the group while I'm playing a shot... but it doesn't bother me.  My response is always that I've got kids at home, so I'm kind of used to tuning things out.  

    My buddies did play with a guy about a month ago or so who seemed to have major issues with where they stood any time he was playing a shot.  He was rude about it and would put his hand on his hip and stare at the 3 other guys in the group until one of them would realize that he was pissed off about something.  It got so bad that one of the other guys in their group jokingly yelled to him from about 150 yards behind and well to the left (about 8 o'clock) to ask if their cart was going to be in his line of sight.  Apparently, that didn't go over too well with the guy and put him on tilt... he finished 14 strokes back.  

    If someone is in your line of sight or makes you uncomfortable... you're certainly within your rights to request that they position themselves elsewhere.  I'd just suggest doing it politely.  


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  22. I laugh when someone says they suck at golf.  To me, there's no such thing.  It's just that there's room for improvement.  

    I've have my rounds when I suck compared to the level I had been playing at.  Yesterday, for example.  I went out alone in the morning because I hadn't touched my clubs in about 5 days and I needed to get some swings in.  My ball striking, while not great, wasn't horrible.  Around the greens, though... I sucked.  I missed 6 putts from 3 feet or less.  That sucked.  I had 6 holes where I needed multiple attempts to get on the green from inside 30 yards (some were greenside).  That sucked.  

    Overall, though... I don't think anybody sucks at golf.  There are people who take the game more seriously than others and invest the time to improve to a level where they're happy.  There are people who play the game just for fun and never really get an opportunity to practice, so they're at a level where they CAN be at that point.  

    Suck is a harsh word.  Also, @ghalfaire has it correct... if you're respectful to others and to the course (and it's components like carts, retaining walls, trees, ponds, etc)... you can play in my group any time.  I don't care if you typically shoot 72 or if you typically shoot 132.  


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  23. 22 hours ago, Vinsk said:

    This scenario may appear to be occurring, but I doubt that's all there is to it. Anyone would take a shot from the rough than a ball in the fairway if it's sitting 50yds closer to the hole. The guys who bomb it must have either awful ball striking skills with their irons, or they consistently hit atrocious drives, OB, hazards, pot bunkers, etc. Distance is not overrated. Imagine if your short knocker friend was 30-50yds closer than he is now. Distance is key unless you are consistently hitting drives so bad as mentioned above. If the bomber guys ever hit a fairway, then your short knocker would struggle to beat them on those holes, unless as I said before, they are horrific every time off the tee.

    To an extent... I agree 100%.  If the rough is not very penal and my line is unobstructed by obstacles... I'll take the shot 50 yards closer just about every time.  

    Right now, however... my course is growing the rough incredibly thick so that there's some grass left once it goes dormant.  I'll take the shot from 160 in the fairway over the shot from 110 in the rough.  My distances is going to be more consistent, for one thing... and I'm far more likely to be on line from the fairway as well.  

    Another factor is how the course is laid out.  Our course isn't long at all.  It's only 6614 yards from the tips... but it's also a course where you need to be able to work the ball.  On the back side alone, there are 3 holes where you almost have to hit an iron off the tee to avoid getting in trouble.  Other courses are definitely 'bomber' courses.  The need to place the ball in a specific position isn't there... so, then it goes back to what I said above.  How thick is the rough?  Where is the pin?  If it's back and I have room... I'll probably take the 110 yard shot.  If it's up front or behind some trouble... I'd prefer to hit the 7 iron to where I can (somewhat) control the distance.  

    21 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

    If by "low-level" you're talking about bogey golf or higher, I agree. Lack of distance is rarely the reason I get outscored. 

    Again, if low-level amateur golf refers to high handicappers, awful ball striking skills and atrocious drives are very common.

    I know almost nothing about golf at the level you play @Vinsk, but I know a bit about the game at my level.

    I can imagine how distance can be the difference among a competitors who all minimize mistakes and can easily bounce back from the minor errors.

    At my level (and admittedly from my limited experience), I have to respectfully disagree that distance is an automatic advantage. My opponents who have made less mistakes than me have overwhelmingly scored better - even when I'm out driving them or pulling less club for the same distance.

    When player A can control his 200 yard club better than player B, he is going to win. Makes little difference whether player A needs a longer club than B for that 200 yards.

    Distance is only an advantage with all else being close to equal, imo.

    Yes... I probably worded it incorrectly, but... I meant higher handicaps.  



  24. 1 hour ago, klineka said:

    Theres a huge difference between one drive out of 30 going 300 yards, and consistently being able to hit 300 yards relatively in line with your target and in play

    This is my experience almost 100% of the time.  

    My average drive is about 235 yards.  I'm nowhere near long off the tee... but I'm also nowhere near short.  That 235 yard average accounts for 200 yard shots that bounce off the trees and 285 yard 'bombs' with the wind.  When I play at the club I belong to currently, I'm about 15-20 yards shorter than most of the guys I play with and then there are guys who are 50-70 yards longer than me.  

    There are always a few who will hit it about even with me throughout the day... then they'll catch one just right that will go 275.  That almost inevitably brings out the 'I average about 280' talk.  They bring up that one drive per round that they catch on the center of the face.  That makes them 'average' 280 off the tee.  

    Like @klineka mentioned above... there's a massive difference between that one drive going 280 and the other 13 going 230.  That means you average one 280 yard drive per round, maybe... but you certainly don't average 280 off the tee.

    Distance is overrated in low-level amateur golf, in my opinion.  The funny thing is watching some of the guys who bomb it get angry when they play with someone who hits it an average distance but regularly outscores them.  One of the guys we play with frequently hits it about the same distance that I do... maybe even a little shorter.  He's ridiculous on and around the greens, though.  It's always fun to watch him get in the head of other people who are driving it 280 and he's sitting 50 yards behind them but making birdies.  


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