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Fourputt last won the day on March 8

Fourputt had the most liked content!

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890 Legend of the Game

About Fourputt

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    Major Winner
  • Birthday 12/12/1946

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    Logan County, CO

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  1. In my experience, this would be one of the least likely causes for slow play. Some of the worst offenders I've played with are complete teetotalers on the course. I've known some pretty experienced players who have simply developed bad habits over the years and can't seem to modify their behavior. I've said it before - I worked in the starter booth at my home course for 5 years. Part of the job was noting and recording the turn and finish times for every group on the course. The only thing that stood out for slow players was simply that they were never ready to play when it was their turn. They were slow because they did everything slowly. There were a variety of reasons for that, but rarely would I be able to point at drinking as a significant cause, aside from the number of times they would stop the beverage cart. When you've watched 1000's of players playing out on 1 and 10 and coming in on 9 and 18, you can often tell right from the first tee who is likely to a problem, and that's long before they've had anything of significance to drink. When I'd tell a group that they were up to hit on the first tee, if it took them more than 2 minutes to exit the teeing ground, then the odds are that they would keep falling back on every shot. I was in radio contact with the ranger, and when I had a slow group off the first tee, I'd watch them all the way to the green. If I felt it was warranted, I'd call the ranger and let him know that we had a group of snails and he'd have to keep an eye on them.
  2. When dealing with a wide variety of people and experience, you have to set an expectation that seems reasonable to the majority. Setting unreasonable expectations just creates frustration and leads to simply ignoring the policy as unattainable. I see you are from the Denver area, and the course I'm referring to is Foothills. I know from many years of play that 4 hours is not unreasonable as long as everything goes well. 4 hours becomes difficult to impossible when a group experiences a few problems with lost balls or other issues which can cause slower play with casual golfers. In the Men's Club, we have the added inspiration of the penalty threat to keep us focused on pace of play, but casual players need a different form of reinforcement. Putting out those clocks, and setting them to an achievable goal, is a better, more positive way of getting buy-in from the general public. Nothing says that once players are used to playing to the clock that it can't be gradually adjusted for slightly shorter rounds as time goes on.
  3. +1 on this^^. It's stupid to keep dealing with those issues when you could just wave him up and play the rest of the way as a twosome. The 2 of you would still probably be waiting on the guys ahead of you, but at least you wouldn't be trying to communicate your situation by sign language, and the group behind him would be able to see what the two of you were dealing with. I wouldn't think twice about it before doing that. I've made such impromptu pairings many, many times over the years. It's a good way to find new golfing friends, and even if it doesn't reach that point, at least you have a less stressful finish to your round.
  4. My home course put up pace of play clocks a couple of years ago, and it seems to be helping with the idea of what the pace should be. There are 3 clocks on each side, and they are set so that when you get to that tee, the time shown should be your starting time or earlier - no need to try and remember any 2nd grade math to figure it out. If the time on the clock is later than your starting time, then you are behind the pace and should make every effort to catch up, if possible (meaning that the group in front is not holding you up). This way all the ranger has to do is point at the clock and a group has no justifiable excuse. It has made players much more aware of pace of play expectations, and in most groups there is at least one player who will comment on it when they fall behind.
  5. While this is the ideal, it never works out so perfectly. Far better to be waiting a few seconds on each shot than to be hanging 1/2 shot behind the group in front of you. If every group was to play by that philosophy and the first group is playing at the course pace, the 6th group would already be 3 shots off the pace, and it just goes downhill from there.
  6. That's how most of my tournaments work. My men's club has its own pace of play policy and it is strictly enforced. As long as we are in touch with the group in front, we don't have to worry about penalties.
  7. If it isn't a problem to keep up, then keep up. If the group in front of you is playing exceptionally fast and you are playing at a good pace and within the course guidelines for pace of play, then it it may not be reasonable to expect you to keep right on the heels of the group in front. However, you should always make every effort to play at the best pace possible. Deliberately slowing down just so you don't have to wait is unacceptable. You should never be worrying about anyone behind you unless they are waiting on you and there is room in front of you. As long as you keep pace with the group in front, you have done all you can to maintain the course flow.
  8. This is a hypothetical the likelihood of which is so remote as to be unanswerable. When this happens to you, I'd just recommend that you make a decision based on the situation and the guys you are playing with. If it happened in a tournament, I'd invoke Rule 3-3 and play 2 balls, one from the spot where my first ball disappeared, and one under stroke and distance, claiming the score from the first one to count if the committee ruled in my favor. This is really the only possibility on such an unlikely scenario.
  9. You need to broaden your horizons - take a road trip out here to the wild west. You won't have to search very hard to find guys playing in jeans in the spring, fall, and winter. In the summer not as much, although it still happens. In the summer most wear shorts, although it's not hard to find t-shirts with those shorts.
  10. To those who constantly repeat that the jeans shouldn't be worn because they are uncomfortable: They may not be comfortable for YOU (although I really don't get this unless it's a climate issue), but your comfort and mine or another's are not equal. I've worn jeans as my leg-wear of choice my entire life, both for work and play. The same is true of 95% of the people I've worked and played with. I don't wear them when it's 95° out (I usually wear neat cargo shorts), but I do play a LOT of golf in 50° and 60° weather, and they are perfect for that. They are tough and take a lot of punishment, but are easy to clean. They offer many different fits, so comfort and freedom of movement is only compromised if you choose the wrong style. They have a wide range of prices from Rustler, to Wrangler to Levis to designer styles. I wear Wranglers mostly, relaxed fit, and I can't imagine anything better for all around wear. I wear them to work in the yard. I wear them camping and fishing. I wear them when we go out in the evening. I wear them until the summer heat dictates shorts, but even then I will sometimes change back to jeans on cool summer nights here on the high plains or in the mountains. League this evening will probably be jeans, as the high today is forecast to be only 60°. I'll wait and see if it's cargo shorts or denim, but those are really the only choices I'll have to make. I choose not to play at venues where my preferences are under a decree of prohibition. There are plenty of really good golf courses which adhere to a more unfettered point of view.
  11. You can't assume that the ball was taken by something you couldn't see. There must be evidence to support it. Under the rules, the ball is lost and the player must continue under penalty of stroke and distance.
  12. In my opinion, this goes against equity. It does not treat all players the same. The only way that this should fly is if the entire field plays on a day other than Sunday when the condition is encountered. Making such an exception for one player at the potential expense of the rest of the field is simply beyond reasonable. To be honest, I don't even like that solution either, but that's my own issue. I have never felt that special accommodations should be made for one person because of such beliefs. If one wishes to compete in a given activity, then one should expect to have to respect the schedule set up for that activity. If one's beliefs are so closely held that he/she cannot accede to those requirements, then one needs to choose a different activity.
  13. I've certainly lost balls when I couldn't see any reasonable way that they could have been lost, but I can't say definitively that I've lost a ball that I knew was in the fairway. Not on a clean fairway. I had to assume that I was mistaken in my impression that the ball stopped on the fairway. I've seen balls take ridiculous bounces off sprinkler heads, and even from fairway distance markers, so I've never just assumed that what I thought I saw from 250+ yards away was what actually happened.
  14. I do this all the time. I'd hate to try and count every time I've raked a bunker for a companion while he worked out his issues, and not just around the green either. Chunked shots from FW bunkers don't usually end well (I made a snowman on a par 4 a couple of weeks ago for exactly that reason ). I've had the same situation, and it's not really mentioned as far as the rules are concerned so I treat it as more of an etiquette issue. I will tell my opponent that I won't watch a putt from one of the non contenders in the group if they putt before we do, but I won't tell him what he can or cannot do. That's up to him and his sense of fair play. I'll explain the situation to the others playing with us, and usually they are more than willing to cooperate with us when their play might affect the match. Unfortunately, it sometimes makes less experienced players uncomfortable to have to worry about whether they are doing something right or wrong that may affect this match that they have no stake in. In such a case, I'll go out of my way to make them understand that while my opponent and I are in a sanctioned competition, it's not a blood match. We are still all there to just have fun playing golf.
  15. This!^^ Ready golf should be the standard as long as you aren't playing match play. If you aren't playing ready golf, then the odds are that you are playing slow golf.