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Fourputt last won the day on December 13 2017

Fourputt had the most liked content!

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961 Legend of the Game

About Fourputt

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    Major Winner
  • Birthday 12/12/1946

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    Logan County, CO

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  1. The rules don't question it in the OP scenario either. The only thing that brings any question to the table is what I consider an odd ruling by the R&A.
  2. I can think of a scenario which is "almost" the same, the ball is witnessed rolling toward the hole with plenty of speed to fall, but hits a twig right at the edge of the hole and is stopped. Now you have a simple rub of the green (ball in motion deflected or stopped by outside agency) and the ball is played as it lies. But for the twig, the ball would have been holed. To me, equity would require that the OP scenario would treated the same.
  3. I still can't buy it. Equity is for situations that the rules don't consider. This one is easily addressed by the rules. Therefore 1-4 shouldn't apply.
  4. The picture I see in post #1 certainly shows that. I don't see how any other ruling can apply. It seemed fairly straightforward to me as well. As long as you know how to find the appropriate rules and follow them in order, the ruling should be obvious. Rule 23-1 (just ensuring that there wasn't any surprise there - doesn't matter if you mark the ball first or move the loose impediment first - same result) starts it and 20-3d ends it.
  5. Well I came late to the party, but I did work out the right ruling before reading the responses in the thread. Just one of those freaky things that can happen when you play a game that is competed on a potentially random playing field.
  6. changing balls during play

    You have to look at it this way. you draw a line that's about 1.5" long. You line it up for a 20 foot putt. If you misalign the ball by 1/64" (which is actually quite accurate for most people doing it by eyeballing - it's more likely to be off by 1/32" or more), in 20 feet you will be off by 2.5", 1/32" you will be off by 5", more than a full hole. And that's only if you actually line the putter up to the ball perfectly and strike it perfectly. The line seems to help some people's confidence, which can be important in making a good stroke, but it's not much real help in a physical sense.
  7. Shot Timing

    I'n happy that you still have young eyes that don't require bifocals. I used to have those eyes too. I didn't wear glasses of any kind until I was in my 50's, and even then it was only reading glasses. I started wearing bifocals less than 10 years ago. I used to be able to track a ball as far as anyone could hit one, and that includes watching John Daly when I marshaled at The International. Now I sometimes have trouble tracking one beyond about 200 yards even when I am standing right behind the hitter. Even when my eyes were perfect, it was hard to follow a ball from across the fairway unless the light was just right. Now I'm lucky to track one out of 10 shots from that angle.
  8. Shot Timing

    Actually, this is never mentioned in the rules, not even in the etiquette section, not even as an oblique reference. It's a courtesy that we all do, but it is not mandatory. In groups at my level I may be near one of my companions when he plays, but I am rarely in close proximity to all of the other members of my group - we are more likely to be scattered across the hole. In such situations, I'm unlikely to have a good line on a ball unless I delay even more and wait until he hits to go to my ball. When I'm well to the side, I won't have a decent line on his ball, if I even manage to track it from my angle. I will assist a player in tracking his ball when it's seems appropriate, but I am not required to do it if it's not convenient, or if doing so would cause unnecessary delay in getting to my ball. The player is ultimately responsible for his own ball, and any assistance I can offer is a courtesy, but not always the best choice of actions. I always watch other players play tee shots, and in my experience, that is the most likely time for a ball to go astray. I will always help another player search for an errant ball (and in most cases I will have seen it and will have some sort of a line on it). It may happen before I play my next shot or after, but I will help until he abandons the search or the ball is found.
  9. Our course used to be marked like your top photo, with a wooden bridge excluded from the hazard (our bridges do not extend as far from the hazard as that one in the photo), and the stakes nearly touching the bridge. (One issue was that this is a public course, and the stakes occasionally get moved because they can interfere with a shot from outside of the hazard, so their location can vary slightly from one round to the next) This was before we started painting lines, so there was often a question of whether or not the ball that was touching the bridge was actually in the hazard. There were so many conflicting rulings from within different groups in men's club tournaments that it caused some bad feelings because of the seeming inconsistency. As a result, the rules committee, with the blessing of the course, changed the marking to include the obstructions completely within the hazard, thus eliminating any question as to the correct procedure. This was back before cell phone cameras - no way to take a photo of the lie - so even playing under 3-3 was no guarantee of a favorable ruling, since someone from the committee would have to have been there and see the actual lie to make any sort of proper ruling. The lines are drawn to fully include the entire bridge, and everyone knows that if the ball is inside the line, it's in the hazard, and there is no worry about trying to get a sight line between 2 stakes.
  10. Shot Timing

    I can take a second or 2 just as I start to move up toward my ball to see if my FC's ball is headed someplace funky or not. If it seems headed off target, then sure, I'll watch to get a spot on it, but if it's more or less headed in the right direction, it's just a waste of time to stand and watch it roll onto the green like most guys seem to feel they have to do. I read an article 30 years ago in Golf or Golf Digest where a Scotsman and an American were discussing this very subject during a round at a small town course somewhere in the Highlands. The Scot couldn't see why the American felt that they both couldn't hit at the same time when they were playing from opposite sides of the hole and nothing they did could interfere with the other. All of this standing around watching is part of why golf is so slow these days.
  11. Shot Timing

    This^^. Unless my ball is in another player's line of play, I will have picked my aiming point and be setting up to the ball while his shot is still in the air. In something like 5-10 seconds after he hits, my ball is on the way. Even if I can't actually be going through my full routine while he plays, I'll still try to get my distance, pick a club, note the wind and lie, and generally be ready to walk up to my ball and hit as soon as he plays. I can't imagine taking more than 30 seconds for the whole procedure. One comment - I don't have to be standing over my ball to get a good distance check. I can easily estimate 5-10 yards (and none of us needs to know it closer than 1 or 2 yards anyway), so I can stay back even with him and still have my distance and pull a club ahead of time without being his way. A few seconds saved here and there by each player adds up over 18 holes.
  12. My home course has all obstructions that are associated with a hazard marked or indicated as being part of the hazard including any bridges across the hazard. This is not universal, but it's fairly common and makes figuring out what to do a lot easier. On my home course there are a few short bridges across an 8 foot wide irrigation ditch which used to be excluded from the hazard, and it created too many questions as to procedure, and whether the ball was in or out of the hazard when it didn't completely rest on the obstruction, so they changed that about 10 years ago. Now the red or yellow lines enclose the bridges and all such confusion has been eliminated.
  13. How to Play Through Another Group

    I worked as a starter for 5 years on a busy public course, and I experienced the same issues. It just doesn't happen as smoothly as Erik seems to think that it should.
  14. How to Play Through Another Group

    The only problem with letting such a twosome play through multiple groups is that most players aren't as efficient as those of us who have the experience and understand that there are both good and bad ways to do it. I've seen too many groups fall a full hole behind while they wait for the group that played through to finish the hole. With the wrong methods, even a single trying to play through on a busy day can cause a rolling blockade on the course that slows up everyone behind him. What you are saying may be good etiquette, and it might work with experienced players, but most casual players have never read the rules, only have a vague idea of what etiquette even is, and in such a case, I would be inclined to just take my time and enjoy the day. I hate slow play, but when you have to play a public course on a weekend, sometimes the better idea is to just go with the flow.
  15. Playing golf with your dog in tow?

    I'll be blunt... I don't understand letting your dog run free, digging randomly. Everywhere I've ever lived it's been illegal to have a dog unrestrained, even in the town of 400 where I'm living now. My dog has the run of the back yard, and occasionally comes out to the front with me when I have a small chore to attend too, but only if I can keep an eye on him. He doesn't run off unless he sees a rabbit or a cat, and if I catch him he will stop even then. But he's fast, runs down rabbits from behind (he's killed 6 that I know if in the 3 years since we got him as a puppy from the shelter), so it only takes a couple of seconds before he's out of sight if I don't pay attention. I don't worry about him running away, but I know that some neighbors will complain if they see him running free.

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