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Titleist Forged AP2 Irons Review

Apr. 25, 2008     By     Comments (186)

Titleist takes a bold step in a new direction with the AP2. Adam Scott has switched. Should you?

Titleist AP2 HeroThere have been few reviews as eagerly anticipated by Sand Trap forum members and readers as this one and our upcoming review of the Titleist AP1s. Our Bag Drop article announcing these clubs has well over 50 comments and my follow-up field test will likely reach 50 before this review is published. In the forum, people are being fitted for, buying, and asking questions about the AP2s and AP1s left and right. Titleist VP of Golf Clubs Chris McGinley feels that this is "the most technically advanced forging ever made" and adds that "demand for this iron is unprecedented in the forged category. Not since the Hogan edge has there been this much buzz and demand for a forged iron."

Titleist, always at or near the top in the "player's irons" category, has in 2008 simultaneously simplified its product lineup and broadened its target market. Though their ZB and ZM models are still available for those who like player's cavity and musclebacks, the AP1 and AP2 are intended to cover pretty much everyone from the PGA Tour golfer to the "aspiring" golfer.

This review takes a look at the Titleist Forged AP2s - the irons intended for the "skilled" player in Titleist's parlance. The "skilled" golfer is anyone with a single-digit handicap right on through to PGA Tour stars like Adam Scott. Like Scott, I've been playing musclebacks for several years due to their superior feel, tremendous workability, and stringent demands that kept my swing in check. Read on to find out what I think of Titleist's fairly radical departure from even their recent past.

Design and Technology
The AP1 and AP2 were designed by Titleist veteran Peter Gilbert, designer of almost every notable DCI iron of the past, with the guidance of Dan Stone, new head of Golf Club Research and Development. Gilbert started with a fresh slate, casting aside the well received 775s and 755s and the technology that had brought them to their current state. He looked at new materials, new shapes, and new processes and created a revolutionary pair of irons - the AP irons.

Elastomer Cushion
The elastomer cushion sits behind the clubface and tweaks the feel and sound. As seen here, it appears to be much wider than it is in reality.

Titleist describes the Forged AP2 as "advanced performance, multi-material, dual cavity, technical forged irons providing traditional solid feel, looks, and shot control for the skilled player." Uhm, yeah. Let's crack the marketing mumbo-jumbo to see what we've really got here.

The acronym "AP" stands for "Advaned Performance," and the AP2 is constructed with several materials, hence "multi-material." The AP2s are formed with a 1025 carbon steel body. Laser welded to the back and sole, a tungsten nickel box lowers the center of gravity, creating an optimal CG location low and deep in the clubhead. The lower, deeper CG results in improved launch conditions with consistent ball speed for distance control and optimal launch and spin for trajectory control. Titleist calls this a "process break through" and, in the words of Chris McGinley, says "never has a back piece with that kind of function or complicated geometry been welded to a forged body." The breakthrough is on the order of the undercut cavities employed by the likes of TaylorMade and Callaway.

An elastomer cushion and a metallic cavity plate complete the list of materials. Both of these materials soften the feel at impact, tune the sound for optimal pitch, and generally make everything feel just a bit sweeter.

AP2 Toes
The minimal offset and varying hosel lengths are apparent in this shot, as is the line between the carbon steel and the tungsten nickel box.

Titleist considers the AP2 a "dual cavity design." The first cavity is obvious: it's the top portion of the club, above the elastomer cushion and below the topline of the club. The second cavity is hidden by the tungsten nickel box. Both cavities push the weight to the perimeter, improving forgiveness on off-center shots. The lower cavity is "capped" with what Titleist bills the "central cross member." It's a metal shelf that connects the back of the cavity to the clubface, right behind the impact area, and it improves the rigidity of the rather thin clubface while acting in cooperation with the elastomer cushion to reduce face vibration.

Finally, the sole itself is optimized for better players. Though the sole is a bit wider than most good players are accustomed to, it features a relieved trailing edge and optimized bounce that seek to achieve the delicate blend between forgiveness and playability for the better golfer.

Esthetics
Forged AP2 GiantBetter players care a good bit about a club's esthetics, and to say the look of the AP2 has been the topic of many discussions would be an understatement of sizable proportions.

Whether it's the metallic insert on the back with the venetian blind look, the "silver "AP2" logo lodged in the toe of the tungsten nickel box, or simply the shock of seeing a Titleist iron with some graphical "stuff" on it, I do not know. After all, the 775 and 755 weren't exactly austere and simple in appearance, either, what with their colorful backs and aluminum bars and things.

Personally, I grew to like the looks of the AP irons, and find that they look a fair bit more handsome in person than in JPEGs on the Internet. Not that it matters much - you don't see any of the cavity back inserts or the toe decals at address. It's simply there for "bag appeal," and whether you like it or not, the AP2 is undeniably recognizable.

At address, the AP2 does have a noticeably thicker topline than the musclebacks I've been playing in prior years. The thickness is on par with other skilled player cavity backs, like the Cleveland CG Red, the TaylorMade r7 TP, and is barely thicker than even Titleist's 695.CB or their new ZB models. Additionally, the slightly thicker topline hides the back of the club, presenting a clean look at address.

The AP2s have what Titleist bills a "confidence inspiring appearance." They're contemporary, with a satin groove area framed by polished steel on the toe and heel. They feature a traditional profile and a blade/hosel junction that flows smoothly and with little offset. The hosels themself vary in length throughout the set: they're shorter in long irons to help promote launch, and longer in the short irons to help control trajectory.

The simple ferrule continues the clean look at address and matches the simple, un-stepped look of the stock Project X shafts right on through to the stock Tour Velvet grip.

Performance
Again, I've always played musclebacks for the feedback they provide. If I play a cavity back iron - even the "good golfer" cavity backs like the TaylorMade r7 TP or the Cleveland CG Red - my game and swing quickly suffer from their lack of feedback. Poor swings are rewarded with decent shots and a generic "feel," and my ballstriking suffers. I can't play the variety of shots I like to play around the golf course. After a short, subtle scoring drop, my swing suffers and my scores rise.

AP2 Backs
The backs of the clubs feature an aluminum medallion that helps fine-tune the sound and feel.

In other words, I've learned to stay away from the "good golfer" cavity backs. I need all the feedback I can get and find it critical to keeping my swing in tune.

So it was with some trepidation that I first hit the AP2s. To be honest, Titleist's ZM and ZB models seemed more up my alley. But long-time muscleback players and traditionalists like Adam Scott had made the switch to the AP2, so who was I to argue?

Nobody, that's who. Though my initial impressions were quite positive, I only came to like and appreciate the AP2 more the longer I used them.

With other clubs in this class (r7 TP, CG Red), only the worst shots transmitted enough feedback to let me know where I'd struck the ball. Contact near the center of the face (but not necessarily on the sweet spot) all tend to feel about the same and a bit dull. I needn't have worried about the AP2s, as they provide nearly all the feedback I've come to expect from my muscleback irons. Every bit of feedback is transmitted, albeit in a muted form. If you pay attention, you can discern the differences between a well-struck shot and one that just missed. I've found that virtually impossible with the others, but the AP2s excel in this area and I cannot commend them highly enough.

For those times when you find the sweet spot, contact cannot be described as buttery smooth as with a muscleback, but it's awfully close. I'm also not sure I've ever heard an iron "crack" with as much clarity and power as these do when you catch one on the sweet spot, either, but it's music to my ears. Miss it a little and, again, a muted tone of a slightly different pitch lets you know.

AP2 Irons High
The 3-, 6-, and 9-irons. Look at the 3-iron topline. When I say "thicker" topline, I mean "barely."

Feedback on mis-hits is great, but it was also nice to discover that the AP2 does not punish you severely for small mis-hits. If contact ½" towards the toe would result in your golf ball landing short and right in a bunker with, say, the Titleist 695.MB, the same strike with the AP2 will put the ball on the fringe or the front right portion of the putting green. This seems true of contact all over the face: the AP2 consistently outperforms all the musclebacks I've played and a fair number of the "good player" cavity-back irons as well.

If you're accustomed to working the ball, the AP2s will not disappoint. Though I was skeptical at first of the amount of control and workability these irons would provide, I've found that I've had to make few to no adjustments when playing shots that curve left or right or go higher in the air. These clubs do hamper my ability to hit the super-low shot, such as when playing out of trees, but this is mitigated somewhat by the Project X shaft. It's a low-spin shaft, so shots played into the wind don't need to be knocked down quite as much, limiting the number of times you'll be forced to flight the ball really low.

I had but one final concern: the wider sole. In reality, the sole plays thinner than it looks due to the trailing edge relief. Having played in wet conditions, dry conditions, from bent/poa fairways and Bermuda fairways, and from all sorts of other lies (that I'd rather not talk about), I found my concerns to be unwarranted. I can still pick the ball off of hardpan or other difficult lies. I can get down to the ball when it's nestled in the rough. I can even hit the ball just a tiny bit heavy with no real detriment. Whether I'm opening or closing the face or moving the ball up or back in my stance, I never felt that the sole was getting in the way or hampering my ability to pull off a shot, and in the case of the ever-so-slightly heavy shots, felt as though the sole provided just enough glide to move into the back of the ball without losing much clubhead speed.

AP2 Triple

One thing you may not be aware of is that the grooves on the Titleist AP1s and Forged AP2s conform to the proposed revised specifications. While I applaud Titleist for treating their customers well (you can buy these irons reasonably comfortable in the knowledge that they should meet revised rules), it did take me a little while to get used to having to deal with fliers again. Knowing how to judge a flier lie isn't a skill a lot of golfers have ever learned, but it's a skill that's fairly easy to pick up and may very well be something all golfers will be dealing with very soon.

In the end, the AP2s have what I consider to be just about the perfect blend of forgiveness, feedback, and playability. Before, my choices were muscleback clubs with lots of the feedback I craved but virtually no forgiveness or cavity-back clubs that transmitted little to no feedback to me on slight mis-hits but which rewarded those mis-hits with good results. The AP2 offers me the best of both and doesn't take away my ability to hit creative shots against the wind or to access tucked pins.

Specifications
The AP2s come with Project X shafts stock, Tour Velvet grips, and in a set of eight irons (3-PW) with the lofts and lies below. Retail pricing is about $999. They're available for both righties and lefties.

They're Titleist irons, though, so custom options abound. Righties can customize the length from +2 inches to -1 inch (lefties from +1" to -½"). Lofts can be adjusted +/- 1°, and righties can adjust the lie angle from +4° to -2° (+/- 2° for lefties).

I'm a fan of the New Decade Multicompound grips, so mine came with those. You may also opt to replace the standard Tour Velvets with Golf Pride grips like Dual Durometer, Tour Velvet Ribbed, Tour Velvet Cord, and Tour Wrap or Lamkin grips like the Crossline and Crossline Cord, or Winn grips like the Black RF or V17 AVS.

Shaft options include several in both graphite (Aldila VS Proto-T in various weights, Graphite Design YS-IRON+ w/GAT) and steel (Project X, Project X Flighted, Rifle, Nippon NS Pro, Tri-Spec, Dynalite Gold, Dynalite Gold with Sensicore, Dynamic Gold, Dynamic Gold HL, and more).

Titleist AP2 Three View

A 51° "W" Wedge is available, and eight-iron "4-W" sets are available for those who would rather not carry a 3-iron.

            Loft      Lie      Length     Swingweight      Offset
            ----      ---      ------     ------------     ------
3-iron      21°       60°      39"            D2           0.160"
6-iron      31°       62.5°    37.5"          D2           0.120"
9-iron      43°       64°      36"            D2           0.090"

Lofts of the clubs are fairly traditional. you may balk at what appears to be one degree less loft than normal on some irons, but I can assure you the tungsten nickel box lowers the CG and raises the ball flight to make up for the slightly stronger loft. Your distances should remain consistent unless your current irons "cheat" with super-strong lofts.

Overall
Titleist AP2Though Titleist has long been in an "evolutionary" phase (see the 690MB -> 695.MB -> ZM lineage), making subtle tweaks to proven designs, the AP1 and AP2 represent a revolutionary break from the old and a bold new direction for Titleist.

Revolutions do not come without risk, but this risk has paid off for Titleist. The AP2s are some of the best "skilled player" non-muscleback irons I've ever played. They offer the perfect blend of forgiveness and feedback that good golfers need. If you can get past the slightly thicker topline and you don't often need to hit a super-low shot, these clubs may very well find their way into your bag. If they do, your scores should drop, your consistency should rise, and your satisfaction could very well hit an all-time high. I know mine has.

Discussion

  1. Brian Mullins says:

    Excellent review iacas! I am planning on purchasing these irons within the next few weeks regardless of your review however you answered the few remaining questions I had about them. Keep up the good work

  2. duffer888 says:

    Thanks for the review. I'd agree that they look much better in person than on the internet. I thought they were fugly when I first saw pictures, but after looking at them at the shop, they are nice looking.

  3. Danzo says:

    Erik,
    Love reading your comprehensive reviews. Keep up the great work!
    I recently hit with the AP2's and absolutely agree with you on all of your points. Being a long time fan of Titleist, I'm curious to know what you think about their move to the use Project X 5.5 shafts as opposed to the popular Dynamic Gold(S300). On the Titleist website, it lists Adam Scott using the DG shafts with his AP2's.

  4. Kankle J says:

    as always, an awesome review.

  5. Robert J says:

    Your review is right on, the Ap2's are clean and have a great feedback on all types of shots, i recently hit the new Bridgestone J36 Cavity and Blades and while they were very sweet and responsive, they do not compare favorably with the Ap2's.....I will order my set next week...thanks again for a great and comprehensive review

  6. Shortgame85 says:

    Excellent review. Well written and informative. I am looking forward to the AP1 review. Kudos to the Sand Trap for providing superb user reviews and kudos, as well, to Titleist for stepping a bit outside their box to design and manufacture the AP1s and the AP2s. Jon

  7. rudygu says:

    Great review. These are definitely on my short list to demo when I replace my W/S PI5's.

  8. J.P. says:

    I'm curious to know what you think about their move to the use Project X 5.5 shafts as opposed to the popular Dynamic Gold(S300). On the Titleist website, it lists Adam Scott using the DG shafts with his AP2's.

    I asked this same question to a Titleist fitter as we were testing these at a recent demo day. His "salesman" answer was that these irons are a tech breakthrough for Titleist and research says the average golfer believes that Project X is higher tech/newer tech than Dynamic Gold, so they went in. He added that most of their Tour staff will play the ultra-consistant DG Gold, as many do now.

    Excellent review Erik - finally a club that will replace my Mizunos! Thanks!

  9. He added that most of their Tour staff will play the ultra-consistant DG Gold, as many do now.

    I think a lot of the pros on the PGA Tour play Project X shafts, and have for quite some time. I think you got an answer from someone who wanted to sound like they perhaps knew a bit more than they truly do.

  10. will m. says:

    These AP2's are THE BEST irons I have ever played, and I have tried them all. Got fitted at hotstix for my correct shaft. The combination of correct shaft and this iron head are unbeatable for me. I am one club longer, much more accurate and my long irons are as straight and easy to hit as ANY ever. I feel completely confident. I can work the ball, hit it high, low whatever. FUN!! Thanks Titliest, I really appreciate the CEO of Fortune brands being a good golfer and pushing the company to the 21st century with this iron. I just ordered the W (gap) wedge. I have made enough money with these, that they have paid for themselves. Get ready to not be able to find these very easily, there will be a lot of demand for them. The buzz is incredible... W.

  11. Josh says:

    Erik,
    Great review as always.
    What is your opinion on which iron is the most forgiving between the AP2, CGRed and R7TP?

  12. Eric says:

    Josh,

    I am coming from the R7 TP and I can say that they are nearly identical in forgiveness, but in feel these AP2's are the REAL DEAL. They feel great. Very much a forged Titleist. Not overly soft like a Mizuno (played the MP-57's for a few weeks and the ap2's are superior).

    Looking down on these heads there is no doubt you will be hitting a good golf shot.

    There is a reason many of the titleist staffers on the PGA are moving to this club. THey don't HAVE to, but they are. Look at Adam Scott and a few others who carry the 905R driver in the 907 headcover. They won't switch because it isn't working. These irons work.

    My wife got the AP1's based on the success of the AP2 irons. Same technology with a little offset.

    Eric

  13. Randy W says:

    The look and makeup of these irons sound very similar to the Nike Forged CCI irons... Did anyone else pick up on that?

  14. Dave says:

    I am, like the author, a die-hard muscleback player, afraid of letting my swing be corrupted by anything but. I hit these at the local store and liked the feel on good hits, and could definately feel the feedback difference on the not so hot shots. The sole and topline bother me, probably only due to residual "old school die hardness". If I was smart, and nobody has ever accused me of being so, I would put these in play. Still deciding, but very impressed. As usual, kudos to Titleist... p.s.; Adam Scott won the Nelson today with these, and i'm quite sure he can beat me!

  15. Matt M says:

    Great review. I ordered mine (4-9 iron) a couple of weeks ago as a trial replacement for my Hogan Apex FTX irons. I hit them with the Project X shafts in them, but stuck with what I know and ordered them with the Dynamic Gold S300s (the Vokey wedges I ordered have the DGs in them and I noticed that the ZBs and ZMs all have the DGs standard) and the New Decade MultiCompound grips. Can't wait to get them out on the course to see how they perform for me under real conditions. I ordered them D2 swing weight (my Hogans are D3 and the AP2s that I hit were D0).

  16. Will 2 Kay says:

    I hit the AP2s on saturday and ordered a set almost before I putted out on the 18th. The one qualm I would have with them is the height they hit the ball with teh project X shafts but that is just because I came from a very flexibile shaft that hit it too low.

    I can't wait to get them in the bag and then I will work out the wedge combination that works best. Any suggestions? I am thinking 54* and 60* SM vokeys...

  17. Matt M says:

    I have a 48º Vokey PW in my set along with a 54º and 58º. I never got used to my previous 60º and my 56º SW wasn't strong enough for me.

  18. Mark says:

    Local instructor, Chicago area loves the AP2's and can get them for me at a discount....Titleist staff. Play TM Racs right now, 5-6 years old. Solid single digit handicapp so I think it's time to move to a better feedback stick. Will take the E21 Eagle One shafts I have in my TM Racs now and put them in the AP2's. Curious to see the trajectory with AP2's and E21 shafts.

  19. Paul says:

    just spent about 2 hours on the range with a 755 and a AP2, both 6.0 project x. windy day, so it's a little hard to judge pure flight (i.e. cuts were cutting a lot, draws were staying more or less straight), but the AP2 blew the pants off the 755. feel, control, workability.... i haven't carried a handicap in a long time--young kids and only playing at conferences will do that--but probably strike the ball like a 10 or so. i actually felt the AP2 was more forgiving than the 755 (which seems contrary to the marketing i've read). maybe i just paid better attention with the AP2?

    i noticed the high trajectory with the rifle shafts; they didn't have a DGs300 to demo, so when i order, i'll be guessing a bit. in any event, the AP2 makes it pretty easy to keep the ball low if you want to. great iron. does everything i want it to and lets me know when i screwed up, but in a "now son, pay a little closer attention next time" kind of way instead of a knuckle-wrapping school marm kind of way. just glad i can't see that fugly cavity at address! (i kid i kid. it actually grew on me as the session went on).

  20. Paul says:

    one more thing... the guy at the shop said orders wouldn't arrive until late june due to demand. anyone else heard that?

  21. ry says:

    one more thing... the guy at the shop said orders wouldn't arrive until late june due to demand. anyone else heard that?

    yulp. late june it is. i ordered mine last week and they told me late june as well. the ap2's are amazing. i'm playing at a 6 right now which is a little higher than usual and these irons give me the confidence i need to lower the cap' .

  22. matt says:

    I ordered a 3-PW set of these last week with a vokey 56 degree wedge. They seem to be readily available in the UK as a number of shops have them in stock over here.

    I tried out many clubs over the last few months to replace my old mizuno TPZ irons. I tried Mizzie MP60, MP57, MP67, Callaway X Tour, Pings, TaylorMades. I also tried the new ZM and ZB but the AP2 somehow manages to feel like its got the best of both worlds...

    ...The feel really is blade-like but it just offers enough help for slight mishits. I play of a 6 handicap and I think they fit my game perfectly. As much as I liked the idea of playing blades, I think my ego was coming before practicality.

  23. Quinn says:

    Well I have to say I have just bought a set of the new ap2s. I love them, being an average golfer, a 10-15 handicap and i find the ap2s to have better ball flight, more consistent spin, and able to shot shape easier, something i have never really had the chance to play. but after getting fitted and ordered i have a waiting time of 4 weeks so its a thats a downer but i would recommend these clubs any day.
    thanks for the great review
    Quinn

  24. Rich says:

    Bought these clubs on trip to the US a few weeks ago. Shot a one under 71 on a windy day in the second round of the year, a score I haven't been close to in years and years.

    To anyone worried about this not being a "player's club": The AP2's are in my view phenomenally forgiving (compared to the DCI 990s I played before) while still maintaining an attractive feel and ball flight. Also, they do indeed look very different, i.e. more "classic", once set up over the ball IRL, as compared to images online.

    Finally, the importance of getting the correct shaft cannot be overestimated. Have just realized I've wasted 9 years of my golfing life by playing the wrong shaft flex (regular).

  25. will m. says:

    GET FITTED. The new fitting system is good. if you can afford Hotstix or something like that, do it. its worth it. As for the AP2's, they are back ordered 6 weeks! The Titliest guy told me, they were not prepared for the success of the iron. They truly are the best. They will end up as the "eye 2's" of this century. By the way, the Gap wedge is AWESOME!! ONE Thing to watch very carefully... Please have the lofts and lies checked... Unfortunately, all my clubs were several degrees off in lies and loft. We had them all moved to specs and now perfect. Weird for Titliest, but remember, the Chinese are the ones making these...so... Small issue to deal with. Have fun. w.

  26. Phil says:

    Took a 6 iron demo out on course today to accompany my 690 CB's. It is a pure club - long, great flight and an amazing feel off the club face. Can't wait to get them when they arrive in Australia (even at a price of $1500!)

  27. Derek says:

    I spent an hour & half yesterday hitting the AP2 irons using the new SureFit system under the watchful eye of our local pro.

    It was really interesting hitting clubs with different shafts, lie angles and shaft lengths. Two shafts worked best for me, namely: the Dynamic Golds and the Project X 5.5 (the latter being slightly more penetrating).

    Towards the end we settled on the Project X 5.5 shafts with a +2 deg upright lie angle.

    We then spent the last 15 minutes comparing them to my Ping I-10's (blue dot). The AP2's had a much tighter dispersion pattern with every shot either dead straight or with a very slight draw. But the biggest difference for me was the much better feel of the AP2's.

    Isn't it strange though that I can end up +2 deg upright with the Titleists whereas the Ping's were only +.75 deg upright!? I guess we've all heard similar stories about how manufacturers standard specs differ.

    Anyway, the set is ordered but unfortunately I'll have to wait four to five weeks as demand has outstripped supply!!!

  28. realed says:

    Just got myself a set today and am in love. I haven't upgraded my clubs since the Ping I3+, so the feel and feedback I am experiencing from the AP2 is amazing..like night and day. I feel I can take my swing to the next level with the feedback I am receiving.

  29. Matty says:

    Tried the Ap2's last week. I was comparing Callaway X Forged, Ping S-58's or Titleist AP2's. I am currently using nike NDS Irons with Uniflex shafts. I cant wait to replace them.

    Does anyone know what a uniflex shaft is?

    I am 15 years old, hitting my driver 230-240 metres and playing off a handicap of 12. I have been playing for three years

    I have just ordered AP2 irons (3-PW) and soon to buy vokey Tin Can finish wedges (52,56 and 60 degree lofts)

    It sounds like AP2's are extremely popular but I can't wait to get my hands on a set.

  30. Peter says:

    I've been a Mizuno fan for years and have used MP-33s as my competition set for about 6 years. I was sceptical when I first saw the AP2 on golfwrx, and didn't really like the look too much. However, I have to say these irons are the best I've ever hit and fill me with the same kind of excitement as when I originally purchased my MP-33s. I got mine with TT Dynamic Gold S300s set up 1 degree flat with Titleist's standard Tour Velvet grips. They are super solid and I hit everything with just a slight draw. They are workable, forgiving yet let you know whn you've hit it on the button. I can undertsand why the orders are backing up at Titleist, but if you've ordered a set they'll be well worth the wait. My set complement is finished of with a Sonartec MD 19 degree hybrid and a couple of Vokey Oil Cans at 52 and 58 degree. I've also stuck with the 905R. It's a pity they don't do an AP2 2 iron, or I'd have that in the bag as well. As for Project X being the standard shaft offering, well I think Rifles are OK but S300s work really well for me with this AP2 head. A magic purchase in every respect.

  31. guygoffer says:

    Bought em....love em....best of both worlds and nice top line...reminds me of when I was playing Titleist Tours

  32. Cultor says:

    Has somebody tried the AP2 with graphite shafts? I'm trying to upgrade from my old trusty Taylor Made 200 irons (factory regular graphite shafts). Actually playing 9. Thanks.

  33. Brett says:

    I bought the AP2 irons (also 6 week wait) and decided to go with the Titleist NS Pro 970 Shaft by Nippon based on the weight and feel. It was a tough decision but it seemed to work very well for me. Anyone else used these shafts?

    I had just purchased Taylormade irons when i got fitted with my golf pro and he let me hit his AP2's...i walked back in absolutely amazed at how much feedback I got on each hit. I ordered them that day and put my brand new R7's on ebay.

  34. Eric says:

    I bought the AP2 irons (also 6 week wait) and decided to go with the Titleist NS Pro 970 Shaft by Nippon based on the weight and feel. It was a tough decision but it seemed to work very well for me. Anyone else used these shafts?

    I had just purchased Taylormade irons when i got fitted with my golf pro and he let me hit his AP2's...i walked back in absolutely amazed at how much feedback I got on each hit. I ordered them that day and put my brand new R7's on ebay.

    Yes, my daughter plays the AP2 with the (r) Nippon NS970 Pro shafts. GREAT combo. SUPER light. She was coming from the Microlite 80 in her TM RAC LT's.

    The Nippon is a great shaft in a variety of flexes. She is a 6.8hc, don't let the girl thing throw you.

  35. steve says:

    Got fitted today by my pro at Scotscraig golf club tried both AP1 & AP2 went for the AP2 with the Dynamic Gold HL shaft thay blew away my Ping i10s by 15 yards with a 6 iron , pity about delivery times , totally awesome clubs

  36. Brett says:
    I bought the AP2 irons (also 6 week wait) and decided to go with the Titleist NS Pro 970 Shaft by Nippon based on the weight and feel. It was a tough decision but it seemed to work very well for me. Anyone else used these shafts?

    I had just purchased Taylormade irons when i got fitted with my golf pro and he let me hit his AP2's...i walked back in absolutely amazed at how much feedback I got on each hit. I ordered them that day and put my brand new R7's on ebay.

    Yes, my daughter plays the AP2 with the (r) Nippon NS970 Pro shafts. GREAT combo. SUPER light. She was coming from the Microlite 80 in her TM RAC LT's.

    The Nippon is a great shaft in a variety of flexes. She is a 6.8hc, don't let the girl thing throw you.

    ---------------------------
    Thanks, I cant wait to get them. I got the X-Stiff fo there a bit heavier, i think it was 107 grams but I think it will work well together. Your daughter would beat me for sure im at a 11.9 now but with these clubs hope to shave a few off.

  37. Dana says:

    I currently play Callaway x-14s and don't like the offset and I'm going to purchase a new set soon. I like the looks of the AP2's but sounds like might be better if I go with the AP1's. I just got the 907D1, 906F4, abd the 585H in 19 and 21 deg so the set I get would be 5 thru PW. I also have Vokey 52, 56, 60deg(Love'em). My HCP is 12 but could be lower if I practiced and played more. Feedback please.

  38. Brett says:

    I currently play Callaway x-14s and don't like the offset and I'm going to purchase a new set soon. I like the looks of the AP2's but sounds like might be better if I go with the AP1's. I just got the 907D1, 906F4, abd the 585H in 19 and 21 deg so the set I get would be 5 thru PW. I also have Vokey 52, 56, 60deg(Love'em). My HCP is 12 but could be lower if I practiced and played more. Feedback please.

    ---------------------

    I have the same handicap and based upon that alone my golf pro said the AP2's would be the way to go. I also got the 907D2 and the 17 and 21 degree 585H which i also love. I was told the AP1's were more for the average golfer and are a bit larger in size. With your handicap and where your only getting better I would say AP2 is the way to go....??? After he let me hit his AP2 set i didnt really care about anything else i just ordered them.

  39. John B. says:

    I ordered a new set of irons this year, to replace my 735-CM's that I have been playing since they came out. I really fell in love with the mixed set, so I made my own mixed set. I got 3-7 AP2's and 8-P ZB's. All clubs with ProjectX 6.0's, 3/4" long and 2 deg up. I ordered without grips because I had my own Golf Pride mid-size Player's Softies. I'm 6'4 with a pretty upright swing.

    I can not say enough good things about the AP2's or the ZB's. If you like the mixed set concept, you can still have your cake and eat it too. I have a great deal more forgiveness with the new clubs over the 735's, but still the same great Titleist look and feel. Not sure I am hitting much further, but more consistent for sure. Shaping is a little easier, and I find the feedback to even be a little better - feel is incredible. The 8-P ZB (same as the 8-P ZM) are incredible musclebacks - with wonderful feel and deadly accuracy.

    This is by far the best set of irons I have ever owned. Technology to enhance flight and add a some forgiveness, but the traditional set-up look and feel I have grown accustomed to over the years. Thank you Titleist, and thank you Eric for the great review (and preview)!

    I would recommend these clubs to anyone, anytime!

  40. Derek says:

    I spent an hour & half yesterday hitting the AP2 irons using the new SureFit system under the watchful eye of our local pro.

    It was really interesting hitting clubs with different shafts, lie angles and shaft lengths. Two shafts worked best for me, namely: the Dynamic Golds and the Project X 5.5 (the latter being slightly more penetrating).

    Towards the end we settled on the Project X 5.5 shafts with a +2 deg upright lie angle.

    We then spent the last 15 minutes comparing them to my Ping I-10's (blue dot). The AP2's had a much tighter dispersion pattern with every shot either dead straight or with a very slight draw. But the biggest difference for me was the much better feel of the AP2's.

    Isn't it strange though that I can end up +2 deg upright with the Titleists whereas the Ping's were only +.75 deg upright!? I guess we've all heard similar stories about how manufacturers standard specs differ.

    Anyway, the set is ordered but unfortunately I'll have to wait four to five weeks as demand has outstripped supply!!!

    Update: Got my set last week (after another session with the local pro decided to change the lie angle from 2 to 1 degree upright prior to delivery).

    I've now played a couple of rounds with them. The second time was in a competitive match which I won 4 and 3 - hit more greens in regulation then I normally do!

    The look and feel is just fantastic. I'd heard mixed comments about the Project X Shaft but it feels really good with the AP2 head and I'm a definite convert.

    The only small concern I have is that it's a little harder to hit a controlled fade whereas its really, really easy to hit a controlled draw or straight shot!

    I echo the last post and would recommend these very highly although probably best if your handicap is 12 or below.

  41. Dave N says:

    I am trying to get back into casual golf after a long layoff. Used to be a pretty good single handicap player. I was thinking about getting a new set of clubs. I was looking at the 775 or the 775 CB or 695 CB. I have tried them in some demo tests. How would you compare the AP2 or AP1 to them ?

  42. youngseve says:

    Hey all - i posted here previously with respect to the 906F4 and thanks for all your recommendations. What a great club. $$$ off the tee and i am finally learning and gaining confidence again in hitting it off the deck. So thanks again for the help. Now onto my new issues....

    I am stuck in a circle of hell with these AP2s and their unforeseen success and resulting delivery delays. In May, after reading the article above and getting fitted (three times with different recs each time), I decided to pull the trigger on these irons. I ordered them through a colleague's husband, a golf pro. He was told they would be a June 15th ship. I said okay and was looking forward to them. Clubs still aren't here and now I have heard rumblings about August 1st ship date. I am not very happy about all this, as this date (if even true) won't give me enough time to get used to them for a Labor Day team golf competition. But rather than cancel the order, maybe somebody has any feedback on how to circumvent this delivery delay (perhaps by custom ordering)? Or maybe I stick with the later delivery date and in the interim this gives me more time to tweak the already suspect fitting they gave me.

    After three different fitting sessions (from 2 degrees flat to standard to 1 degree flat), I settled on standard lie and the project x rifle 5.0. What I can't figure out is that while not a huge guy, i am a 9.3 hdcp that takes a decent swipe at it and i think my swing speed is around 90mph? Perhaps a tick lower? And i currently play with old Titleist DCI 981s with a PROJECT X RIFLE 6.0!!! They have seen my bag composition and yet two people recommended the 5.0. I don't think I am totally sold on this. And the other reason I am leaning toward the 5.5 is that the thing I loved about my old irons was the ability to control trajectory (and my swing) and flight the ball down. I am assuming that is due to the effect of the rifle and the 6.0?

    Anyway, this fitting system is one that i am not familiar with and one that is frustrating since it is not universal. Thanks for reading this long diatribe. Any feedback is much appreciated.

  43. RJ says:

    Great review. Thank you.

    I am a 15 handicap playing the Titleist 704's. I hit them alright and love the "feel" I get with these clubs, although I am not great in the slightest about shaping shots. I was on the golf team in high school and played my whole life. Fatherhood took me out of the game for a good 5 years. I am now playing quite a bit and feel my game is slowly returning. I have been looking at both the AP1's and AP2's.

    I am "an aspiring" golfer in many respects. But I am very interested in the AP2's. I love the feel of a forged iron and am leaning towards getting these. However, I am concerned that they might be too much club for me and that maybe I would be better suited for the AP1's. Yet I still "want" the AP2's.

    Given my handicap, would this be a mistake? Or should I opt for the AP1's?

    Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

  44. klister says:

    I've got a set of AP2 on order and they tell me that with the Project X 5.0 it will not ship until mid-August. I've read elsewhere that due to some manufacturing problems at TT Precision they are out of shafts other than 5.5. With 5.5 they can deliver in about 3 weeks according to the Titleist rep I talked with today.

    Concerning your flex choice I have the same decision to make. I am 61 with a 5 iron swing speed of a little over 75 and an index of 6.8. I played 18 holes today with a demo set of AP2's with Project X 5.5. My current clubs are Titleist 690.CB's with Project X 5.0. I hit two balls with each set for each iron shot on the round. The AP2's were clearly longer on the 4,5 and 6 irons with the 5.5's. On the other clubs they were roughly equal. The AP2's are D2 swingweight while my other clubs are D0 to D1 with the Project X. I think I am right between the 5.5 and 5.0 flexes so if your swing speed is greater you might be fine with the 5.5's. I now have 5.5's on order but I also have an extra set of 5.0's I can put in if those turn out to be too stiff. Good luck with your decision.

  45. RJW says:

    Great review. I never considered Titleist irons because I alsways found them harder for me to hit. When I saw the AP2's at Edwin Watts I fell in love with the look. Fortunately a friend of mine had a set and I was able to hit his 7 iron and immediately knew these were the clubs for me. I now own a set and they are really the best performing set of irons I have ever owned. I carry a 8 handicap and shot a 75 with them my third day out. This included two double bogeys that were the result of two poorly hit drives. I am now in the process of lowering that 8 I have carried for the last year.

  46. mike says:

    does anyone know if it costs extra to get the dynamic gold shafts instead of the project x's?

  47. Josh says:

    Can anyone help me out? I was a college golfer, and have been playing the old DCI B's forever. I bought some Mizuno blades but didnt like them as I've always liked the cavity back. I'm a +2 handicap, and hit my driver about 270 yrds but have a pretty slow transition on top. My old DCI B's have 6.5 Rifle CM shafts in them and I've never really hit them far, but always been fairly accurate although if I miss it it's right. But with my driver i play a firm taylor made standard shaft which fits me well, and i usually draw the ball with this club. When i bought mizuno's last i got the S300 shafts so I'm guessing I need the project x 5.5?? That's what i've been told anyway.. if anyone can help please email me at : nagelmotox@hotmail.com. I appreciate it.

  48. Jeff says:

    If your a single handicap player with a good swing, these clubs are for you. They are very solid and accurate as hell. Buy them if you want to hit it close.

  49. Q says:

    Got my AP2's in late June. 1* flat with Project X 6.0's. Absolutely love them. Replaced a 10 year old set of Taylor Made Burners so it was about time. These clubs will not disappoint.

  50. Matt says:

    So with the new groove rules officially out, do these clubs meet the standards as suggested in the review?

  51. So with the new groove rules officially out, do these clubs meet the standards as suggested in the review?

    Yes.

  52. Ryan says:

    Currently, I have a fairly high handicap (about 18), but all the talk about these irons being more for the "skilled" didn't deter me one bit. My handicap was about 22 when I first got the AP2's and now my handicap has dropped in the last few months. I'm confident that it's only going to get lower.

    The AP2's are not just great for the skilled golfer but also an aspiring golfer. I'm an aspiring competitive golfer and the AP2's are really helping me get there. Keep in mind that there will be a slight learning curve to hit these, but the feedback you get from these irons will help you straighten things out. Good luck!

  53. Jenks says:

    Hey guys. I was wondering if anybody out there has played both the 755s and the AP2s? I was curios how they compared. Mainly in forgiveness. I have yet to get the chance to hit the AP2s, but I have been playing the 755s for a year or so. And I am looking for something just a little bit more forgive. Doesn't have to be a lot. If anybody has some tips, they would be very much appreciated. Thanks!

  54. Josh says:

    I dont know about forgiveness but the AP2s seem to be a little easier to hit....

  55. Eric says:

    I had the 755's prior to the AP2's. They are identical in ease of ball striking and forgiveness. I played both for many rounds. Identical..

    That being said the AP2's look great at address and feel great off the face. More Mizuno-like.

    THAT being said they are better than Mizuno.

  56. Brad says:

    Hey Eric, thanks for your frank comments about the identical qualities of the 755 & AP2.

    I've had a set of 755s for about 6 months now & am very happy. Great feel off the club face with just the right amount of forgiveness. I can't understand why Titleist effectively threw the baby (755) out with the bathwater when it supposedly started from a "clean sheet of paper" with the AP1 & AP2. In fact, I see that Steve Stricker still uses the 755!!!

  57. Eric says:

    I saw Steve Stricker use the AP2's for a couple of tournaments. The website still says he uses the 755.

    Unsure. Did you see him with the 755's on TV recently?

  58. Brad says:

    I saw some highlights of Steve Stricker at the BMW championship. I'm sure I saw Stricker pull a 755 from his bag when about to play a shot from the fairway.

    Unfortunately, the only other highlights that I saw of Stricker at the BMW were of him pitching with vokeys & his putting.

  59. Josh says:

    Hit both... if they feel the same, why spend the extra money, unless you want a better looking club in my opinion.

  60. KenT says:

    My club pro has suggested I get fitted for AP2s, but I'm a little worried about the "skilled player" rating. I've been a 10 round a year kind of guy until about a year ago, when I joined my first club. I now play a good 40 rounds or more per year (last year and this year), and as a result my index has dropped from a 16 to an 11. Are these clubs too much for me to handle?? Am I ready for these?? Thanks everyone.

  61. Josh says:

    I dont think youll have any issues being a 10. If you are concerned, try the AP1 vs. the AP2 at the range... I love mine... they are easy to hit, although they go pretty high, which I'm not quite used too.

  62. Flanagan says:

    Decided to abandon my PING I3+blades, and demo'd both APs, PING S58 and i10. Went with 4,5 AP1 and 6-P AP2 (and Vokey wedges - love them, but this isn't a Vokey thread). Based on all available info, went with Project X flighted 5.5 shafts. Have always played some version of True Temper stiff shafts before, but the Project X's felt like telephone poles. Had them checked out recently and were comparable to X300s. Am getting clubs refitted with Nippon 950s in an "R", because that is what the analysis is showing as right for me now. Don't know what the PING CS Lites I had (a True Temper shaft) were equivalent to with their "stiff" designation, and I'm happy to go to an "R" given that seems to be right. But, I do know that the 5.5s seemed to eliminate all of the feel of the APs, and were WAY stiffer than would be expected based on what Precision (True Temper) says they should be, and even what others seem to experience. Anxiously awaiting the refitted irons. Spent a lot of time trying and researching the APs, including this forum and website, both of which were very helpful, so thought I'd share this experience.

  63. tony says:

    Interesting. I also got the AP2's with Project X 5.5 shafts and the same thing happened to me - the shafts were way too stiff! I got fitted but when they arrived I just couldn't use them so took them back to the pro shop and when we compared them to the demo 5.5 shaft mine where much, much stiffer. If you remove the grip the serial number of the shaft can be found but even if it proves that it should be 5.5 (as mine did) I'd be very wary! The DG if you want a lower ball flight or the Nippon for mid ball flight are probably worth considering as quality control is an issue for Project X!

  64. Flanagan says:

    I've had the AP2s/Vokeys with the new shafts back for a week now, and had good weather to play in, including a fair amount of range time. Took awhile to adjust, just because my swing had seemed to require so much effort to get anything out of the Project X shafts. With the Nippons, and an accurate flex, my swing is smoother and contact feels great. Can hit part shots and distance I had lost is back, and wedges especially have much better feel. Had the lofts/lies checked on the AP2s as well, and they actually checked out pretty good (not as way off as some have found from Titleist). Only two irons were off, any only by 1/2 degree each in loft. Lies didn't check out quite as good. The old PING shafts, while designated stiff, were playable, just as before, while I waited to have Project Xs replaced. Can't explain the Project X thing, just not for me and way stiffer than should have been. However, even compared with the shafts in the PINGs, moveing to a slightly more flexible shaft was the right thing to do. Ball flight is high, but consistent with the Nippons. With the right shafts, no one should feel the AP2 is too much of a "players" club. I'm as consistent as I was with my PING i3+blades, and I like the difference in feel a lot, and especially like the Vokey wedges vs. the PING wedges.

  65. Dennis says:

    I have been playing Titleist DCI 962 with Precision Rifle 6.5 shafts(Titlesit fitted) since they came out.I have loved the versatility ,shot making ability and feedback of these clubs from a variety of lies and turf over the years and could not justify replacing them with any other irons tested to date.I have been impressed with quite a few sets but none gave me a reason to switch.
    Now that the AP2 came out I have finally found a worthy successor to my DCIs.Not a fan of the project X shaft however.Tested both 6.0 and 6.5.Has odd feel in how it flexes when starting downswing.Ended up with DG X-100 shafts and love them.The AP2s are as versatile from any lie as my DCIs but definitely more forgiving while still providing similar feedback on mishits.As stated earlier mishit shots that normally would be short and off to side of green several yards are now just off fringe.Excellent irons.

  66. kent says:

    Just got some used AP2s with 6.0 project X off of ebay. Was previously playing Callaway X-20 Tours, but they had not feel. I havent played forged irons since my Wilson Staff's back in high school. I love the AP2s so far and they seem to have a much tighter dispersion pattern than the X-20 Tours. I love the feel, but have noticed some loss of distance even on well struck shots - about 5-7 yards. I will sacrifice that however for better accuracy.

  67. Dana says:

    I finally got the AP2's with 5.5 Project X. I agree with kent I lost about 10 yards, but I don't miss many greens anymore. I do recomend getting fitted though. You can see the difference and feel it while they dial in the shaft and proper lie. I went from spraying it to a nice 5-10 yard pattern.

  68. Josh says:

    I too have been playing DCI 962 (w/ DG Sensicore shafts) for about ten years now and love them to death. I am deathly afraid of moving away from them to a new set. I have not demoed the AP2's but I have just about every other skilled player iron, and I cannot keep the ball out of the ionosphere. I have a very high trajectory shot, and I am looking for skilled player iron (don't play enough to go the muscleback route i think) that doesn't put ice on my golf ball. I want to get some feedback on those who have played the AP2 who might have some similar shot trajectory issues that I have. I know some adjustments can be made from getting them fitted to help with that, but I would just like to hear feedback from actual players and not factory reps. Thanks in advance.

  69. Austin says:

    Great review... i went to the shop and they looked way different than on the internet... they look a lot better in real life.. but afterall it is nice looking

  70. Bill says:

    I am currently a 10.5 HDCP and have been as low as 8.5 but went through several slumping months and cannot seem to get back to the single digits. My iron game from 175 in, has been the weakest part of my game. No problem with distance but accuracy is poor. I used to play a nice high draw but cannot hit that consistently anymore. I play 3 - 4 times per month.

    I currently play the Callaway X20 Tours with Project X shafts and played with someone recently that recommended I try the Callaway X Forged or the Titleist AP2s. He saw my swing and thought more of a players club would benefit me.

    Will either of these clubs be too unforgiving for me, and out of the 2 which be the better choice?

  71. Bogey Blaster says:

    I just bought a set of AP2's with DG R300 off ebay for 500 CAD and they feel great and look awesome.....but since its winter, I havent hit them with a ball, only in my basement....LOL....I will update in about 5-6 months!!!!

    BEAUTIFUL CLUBS!!!!

  72. matt says:

    can anyone describe the difference in the rifle 5.0 5.5 and 6.0?thanks

  73. Mab says:

    Great Review!!!

  74. Fourputt says:

    Just ordered my AP2's today, with Project X 5.0 (5I-PW). Hitting them into the net they felt fabulous.... better than any of the dozen or so other clubs I hit (I liked the R7 TP too). I kept going back to to the AP's after hitting a couple of clunkers with another club, and the AP just seemed to be in a perfect groove for me. I'm hoping that these babies will be what I need to make my swing a little bit more focused with the irons, maybe stabilize my wobbly handicap. I'd like to get over that hump at 10 and slide into the single digits and stay there for a while.

    I'm switching to the AP2 from King Cobra, so it's going to be a huge change for me.

  75. kent says:

    Bill - I just switched from X-20 Tours to the AP2s. I am a 10-12 hdcp over the last year and the AP2s are only slightly less forgiving. However, I hit them more consistently than the X-20 Tours for some reason. The difference in feel is amazing!

  76. Flanagan says:

    can anyone describe the difference in the rifle 5.0 5.5 and 6.0?thanks

    Their website has some information, but my experience was that the Project X Tour Flighted Rifles in 5.5 played and were tested to be WAY more stiff than the manufacturer would suggest based on the limited way you are given to "choose" the correct shaft (I think it's basically just 6 iron distance, which doesn't really isolate any variables). Because I switched shafts, I didn't ever try the 5.0s. The Regular Rifle shaft is apparently not an option available from Titleist anymore and that is reputed to be less "stiff" in a comparable number than the Project X. What's weird is that even if I'd hit the 5.5s and liked them, the ones I got tested out too stiff (so perhaps a quality control issue). Try out the shafts if you can. After this experience, I'm more convinced than ever that shaft "fitting" is imperative, really made a difference in how the clubs feel. As far as the clubs go, love them.

  77. mike says:

    I too have been playing the DCI 962 With a 6.5 rifle shaft for about 12 years. A couple of years ago I got fitted with Calloway X forged irons. I played them for about 6 months and never felt comfortable with them. I switched back to my old 962s and am back to a 7.4 index. If I cannot get the AP 2 in a rifle shaft (6.5) is the DGx-100 comparable? And can I get them 1/2" long? Please advise.

  78. markh says:

    These irons look great, play great and have just the right balance of forgiveness plus feedback. I play to a 0 handicap and have always been a Ping fan. No more. I tried the various new Mizuno irons, Ping 58's and a few others, but these are the best. At address you don't see the cavities and the feedback on solid or missed shots is instantaneous. I was fitted with the DG High Launch shafts which gave me a better ball flight with my 3-6 irons. Just ordered my 909 D3 so I am slowly but surely becoming a Titlelist believer!

  79. Todd says:

    Today I tried 3 irons. I am about a 10 handicap. I tried the Nike Victory Red split cavity, Mizuno MP-57, and Titleist AP2.
    They all had Project X 5.5 shafts. All identical length and loft.
    I hit about 200 balls total on the range with new balls. Teed up and out of grass. I found the Mizuno MP57 least forgiving, the Nike second, and the AP2's the most forgiving. My question is this. The Mizuno and Nike went equally far on center hits. But consistently the AP2's were 10-12 yards shorter on center hits. That's a lot of distance. Can anyone explain this? The folks at Golfsmith could not.

  80. Flanagan says:

    I'm biased because of my unusual experience with the 5.5s. Is another AP2 available in the same club, but a different 5.5 shaft that you could try, just to rule out the possibility of some aberration in that particular shaft on that particular AP2 or others in its same set? I can't imagine the clubhead is the explanation, and you've said the lofts are the same.

  81. Todd says:

    Well I guess it's always simple once you have the answer.
    I found out when on a launch monitor I was swinging the AP2's about 6mph slower because they are heavier. I also found out they had about a 500 rpm higher spin rate than the Mizunos or Nikes. Oh well. Thanks for input anyway.

  82. Zach says:

    I would have to agree that the slower swing speed would definitely cause the loss of distance. The other thing you have to consider is that since the AP2s conform to the new groove rule, they will not be getting as much spin(as the monitor showed) and therefore slighty less carry.

  83. Flanagan says:

    When comparing my data from the Rifles to the Nippons at the same swing speed, the spin was less, carry greater and angle lower. On average, my swing speed on each club was a little higher, perhaps that was due to the lighter shaft having some influence. I'm not sure a lower spin rate necessarily translates to less carry.

  84. mike says:

    I posted previously on Jan. 12th. I have been using the DCI 962's for about 12 years. 1/2" over standard in length with 6.5 precesion rifle shafts. I just switched over to the AP 2, same specs except I went down to a 6.0 rifle shaft due to being over 50. What great clubs. A very solid feel, high ball flight. I have found the 10 yds that was slowly eroding away over the last 10 years, but more important, the workability and acuracy is just as good, if not better. I am very happy with my new AP2 irons.

  85. SATX Golfer says:

    I played with Titleist 704CBs for a couple of years before replacing them with my old Cleveland TA3s and putting the 704CBs in the garage. I tried shortening the 704CBs, changing the lofts, etc., but I was never happy with them. So it was with some trepidation that I tried the AP2s. Fortunately, I was able to find a barely used set at my local golf store that just happened to be set up to my usual specs, 1/2" over and 1 degree upright (and for $525 who could resist!!).

    My reaction to the AP2s is quite simple. Sweet!!! I love the buttery feel of well struck shots. I love the feedback they provide on less than perfect shots. I really like the fact I can feel the clubhead throught my swing. These clubs will be in my bag for a while.

    I do have a question though...

    My AP2s have the Project X 6.0 shafts. They seem to work nicely for me, but when I look at the Precision website it states that the 6.0 shaft is for a player who hits a 6-iron 180 yds. My 6-iron distance is more like 170 yds. They feel good, but am I playing with more shaft than I should be? Again, my AP2s are a 1/2" over, so maybe that is bringing the flex down to something more like a 5.5.

    Thoughts?

  86. mike says:

    SATX,
    I hit my 6 iron approx 175. Of course, that is on a day that I am striking my irons properly. On my normal day, faced with a 170 yd shot, I will pull out my 6 iron, not my 7 iron. I have been playing precision rifle shafts (DCI 920's) for more than 10 yrs. with 6.5. I just dropped down to 6.0 and feel I made the right decision. I too play with 1/2" over standard. I think you are playing with the correct flex. I'm not sure the difference between the precision rilfe shaft and the project X. Are they the same in flex? Does a precision 6.0 equate to a project in 6.0?

  87. SATX Golfer says:

    SATX,

    I hit my 6 iron approx 175. Of course, that is on a day that I am striking my irons properly. On my normal day, faced with a 170 yd shot, I will pull out my 6 iron, not my 7 iron. I have been playing precision rifle shafts (DCI 920's) for more than 10 yrs. with 6.5. I just dropped down to 6.0 and feel I made the right decision. I too play with 1/2" over standard. I think you are playing with the correct flex. I'm not sure the difference between the precision rilfe shaft and the project X. Are they the same in flex? Does a precision 6.0 equate to a project in 6.0?

    Thanks for the feedback!

    I am not positive that Project X 6.0 are the same flex as generic Rifles, but I believe they are. Ironically, many of the posts out here think that the PX 5.5s are stiffer than what they are used to. I have never played Rifles shafts before, so I have no frame of reference. I have always played DG300s in the past. I am not sure these PX 6.0s are any stiffer, but they do feel different.

    My concerns about the shaft stem from the fact I had no choice in shaft because I bought the clubs used. I happen to know this specific set belonged to a local pro because the 3-iron has a personalized grip on it and because they told me so in the golf shop. I have played with this pro before and we have similar builds at 6'4". As such, the flex of these shafts concerned me. I am not now nor will ever be a pro, nor will I ever hit the ball as far as he does. But...

    They feel really good. I can't say I have seen any appreciable change in distance, but being 50 now I wonder how much longer I will be able to generate enough swing speed to make the 6.0s work for me, and/or if I would be hitting it any further with PX 5.5s. I guess it is all academic now!

  88. mike says:

    Satx,
    It's funny that you should mention hitting the 50 mark. I just celabrated my 51st birthday. I guess the memory tends to go at this decade because I have been playing 962 DCI's, not 920's, I don't even know what 920's are. Anyway, you can't argue with your choice if they feel good to you and you like the performance. I'm sure you will enjoy them for many years to come.

  89. Marcel says:

    I have a question in what to do and what is smart to do???

    The situation:
    32yrs old, 2mtr long and strong.
    Started seriously 4 yrs ago with taking private lessons every other week for about 15months and offcourse a lot of practice. Dropped down to a hcp 10.9 nowadays.
    Haven't had a lesson the last two years, so last chrsitmas I started agian. Getting the problems fixed, new set-up...you know the drill.

    I've been fitted with Titleist 704.CB, Rifle 5.5, 1,5" extra and 3 degrees up. My dwingspeed is approx 105-110mph.

    I want to get into a single hcp, but most importantly, I want to get the feeling that the ball does, what I want it to do. Or if not that I know why it doesn't.

    Since everybody else know best and all have their own interest (ie selling me clubs or a fitting session) I was wondering of anyone here could give me some tips, advise or even have the same experience on what to do???
    Should I buy new clubs? What would be the advantage or disadvantage? Etc etc etc

    Many thx in advance

    Marcel
    The Netherlands

  90. mike says:

    Is that swing speed with a driver or with your irons? If it is with your irons it is fast enough to warrent stiffer shafts than 5.5. If the club head can't catch up with your swing then the tendency will be to hit the ball high and to the right. If you are a right hander.

  91. marcel says:

    Is that swing speed with a driver or with your irons? If it is with your irons it is fast enough to warrent stiffer shafts than 5.5. If the club head can't catch up with your swing then the tendency will be to hit the ball high and to the right. If you are a right hander.

    Mike, swing speed is with the irons.
    Since I am tall, my normal flight is a little fade, starting left, ending in the middle. I normally had lower ballflights, but they went up and to the rihgt.
    Can it be that I developed a higher swingspeed than 4 years ago?

  92. Josh says:

    I always thought that if the shaft is two soft, then the ball should go left? I bought the 5.5's and that seems to be the case. I was playing the 6.5's but had always thought they were a little stiff for me.. turns out the 6.0's I was told would have been perfect.

  93. mike says:

    Josh,
    I don't think so. If the shaft is too 'whippy', then the the club cannot catch up to the swing. That would leave it slightly open at impact, which would create a slice spin on the ball. But I think someone smarter than me should weigh in on this subject.

  94. I don't think so. If the shaft is too 'whippy', then the the club cannot catch up to the swing.

    No, per the common understanding is that you have it backwards. The club whips through too early, shutting the clubface.

    It's the "majority result," too: a whippier shaft tends to send the ball high and left, and a too-stiff shaft sends the ball low and right. It's not 100% - may not even be 80% - but it's certainly the general rule.

  95. Josh says:

    thats what i figured... because my 6.5's if i miss them it goes right, but never left. my 5.5's if i swing normal it goes left generally. I;m hoping 6.0's would make it go in the hole? :roll:

  96. SATX Golfer says:

    The 6.0s in my AP2s are the stiffest shafts I have ever played, but only marginally so than the S300s I have played with forever. I find that if I try to smooth a shot the the result is always right. So I have to make sure to always choose a club that will allow me to be aggressive. However, it is nice to know I have a shaft that will pretty much allow me to be as aggressive as I want without worrying about a snap hook.

    All that being said, a high right "balloon" can be the result of a shaft that is too soft, especially for those with a solid inside to outside swing path. The old Taylor Made "bubble" shafts were like that. I struggled with that shaft for a while before replacing it with a UST Proforce 65. The change (for the better) was startling.

    My experience hitting softer shafts is that the left shot is the result of trying to slow down your swing to suit the shaft which results in the clubhead snapping closed at impact. While the high right shot is the result of swinging too hard from the shaft. Conventional wisdom may be different, but this is what I have observed in my own game.

  97. brad says:

    thanks thats alot of help! yea short game is key and i am starting to develop one i played the other day and had 29 putts witch isnt to to bad. i am going to purchase the ap2 soon because once it gets warm i will be playing everyday. once again thanks for the help

  98. brad says:

    i usually shoot in the upper 70s i am hope i can bring that down a couple strokes and i think the way to do that for me is to work on short game.i have only bin playing for about a year and a half and the only thing that is keeping me from getting these clubs is my buddy thinks that my swing isnt consistent enough to hit these but i all the pros at the local driving range says i have a very good swing and could hit theses clubs. what do you think i should do??

  99. Fourputt says:

    I've been playing my AP2's now for about 10 rounds and I'm starting to really love them. I decided to get them to try and induce myself to get back to the swing I used to have before a few years of of GI irons allowed me to get lazy and sloppy. The plan seems to be working... not only am I swinging the irons better, but it's translating to my other clubs as well.

    As an 11 handicap, I was worried that it would be an expensive and risky experiment, but for me it seems to be working.

  100. elperuano says:

    I'm playing to about a 7 HC and I have been playing DCI 962's for over 11 years. I finally decided it was time to upgrade the technology. I went into a large national chain store thinking that I really liked the look of the MP-52's and the new Nike forged cavity backs. The sales rep then also brought the AP2's into the stall for me to hit. The feel of the AP2's blew the others away. I hit 20 balls with each of these and the consistency of the AP2's was much tighter than the others.

    Mine are getting here early next week and I can't wait to take them out on the course.

    Thanks for your review! Validates my decision!

  101. Craig says:

    I switched from 735's chrome DG S300 back in SEPT. to the AP2's Project X 5.5, best upgrade I have ever made in 30yrs of golfing(former teaching pro 10yrs ago) 1hdcp. These irons are one of a kind ,Titleist has hit the jackpot just look at the supply and demand when they first were introduced. If you are a plus to a 10 or 12(AP 2) or 13 on up(AP 2) you are covered in this iron family. Titleist isn't number 1 for nothing and its not just on tour but for us am's to. I Love mine! Titleist for life forget the price,if you have game and the means in this economic hard time. :wink:

  102. Chris says:

    Thanks for all the great input.

    I was excited to try the AP2's last year when they were first introduced, but after lengthy session on the range they didn't WOW me away from my 735's. For the heck of it tried them again last week, and this time I came away really impressed. They felt incredibly solid at impact, provided great feedback, could hit a draw on command, and felt really well balanced throughout the swing.

    My one concern was that the Project X 5.5 seemed to produce a really high ball flight. I've always seemed to have high ball flight with DG S300, these just seemed to exagerate the height. On the plus side, these appear to be about a half club longer, and when the ball finally drops from the sky onto the green it never released more than two feet from the ball mark.

    Has anyone else that has changed to the Project X 5.5 had similar experiences?

    I'd consider ordering mine with the DG's, but the Project X's are very intriguing. If I'm going to get new irons, why not make go all the way and try new shafts.

  103. Gary says:

    Thanks for all the great input.

    I was excited to try the AP2's last year when they were first introduced, but after lengthy session on the range they didn't WOW me away from my 735's.

    For the heck of it tried them again last week, and this time I came away really impressed. They felt incredibly solid at impact, provided great feedback, could hit a draw on command, and felt really well balanced throughout the swing.

    My one concern was that the Project X 5.5 seemed to produce a really high ball flight. I've always seemed to have high ball flight with DG S300, these just seemed to exagerate the height. On the plus side, these appear to be about a half club longer, and when the ball finally drops from the sky onto the green it never released more than two feet from the ball mark.

    Has anyone else that has changed to the Project X 5.5 had similar experiences?

    I'd consider ordering mine with the DG's, but the Project X's are very intriguing. If I'm going to get new irons, why not make go all the way and try new shafts.

    Hi Chris! Just read this as I hit my buddy's AP2's with PX6.0 2 deg.flat and loved them. I bought the Taylor R7 TP with PX6.5 last year and HATED THEM! I was all over the place with them and thought for sure it was the PX shaft. I have always played DGold shafts and went back to my 735cm with DGS300 for now but again, loved the AP2's with the PX6.0. Only concern is that it does feel different coming off the face but I nutted them each time. Slightly higher trajectory but nothing to worry about I don't believe. My knock down shots were slightly higher as well. I am flip flopping since I had a bad experience with the PX shaft and DG is just such a solid standby.

  104. SATX Golfer says:

    Hi Chris! Just read this as I hit my buddy's AP2's with PX6.0 2 deg.flat and loved them. I bought the Taylor R7 TP with PX6.5 last year and HATED THEM! I was all over the place with them and thought for sure it was the PX shaft. I have always played DGold shafts and went back to my 735cm with DGS300 for now but again, loved the AP2's with the PX6.0. Only concern is that it does feel different coming off the face but I nutted them each time. Slightly higher trajectory but nothing to worry about I don't believe. My knock down shots were slightly higher as well. I am flip flopping since I had a bad experience with the PX shaft and DG is just such a solid standby.

    I have found the PX 6.0s to be 'more' shaft than the DG300s which I have played with for years in a variey of clubs including, most recently, Titleist 704CB, and a little older Cleveland TA3 Forged. I definitely do not hit the ball higher with the PX 6.0s, but I do seem to hit the ball further as the PXs seem to produce a more penetrating flight. The overall height is the same for both shafts, but the trajectory of getting to max height is lower, if that makes sense. In other words, my DG 300s got high early and flew, whereas the PX 6.0s penetrates more in the early portion of the flight. I definitely like them more down here in Texas where we play in so much wind.

  105. JNRadio says:

    So even in the 3 and 4 iron the cavity is not visible at address? Think I'm going to sell my MP-57 love the look and feel when struck well but sometime long for a touch more forgiveness and it sounds like these are the ticket... Anyone in the market for very lightly used MP-57's PX 6.0?

  106. joe16 says:

    hi guys,right now playing 16...is ap2 will be any good for me?need help from the expert :wink: ..cheers

  107. Josh says:

    Or AP1. Go hit some.... that will tell you a lot. Some people dont like clubs others do... A lot is personal preference except the shafts. I'd say go buy a ford, but you may be a chevy man. lol. Just my opinion though. The AP2's are pretty forgiving and workable, but at a 16, id also try the AP1's.

  108. joe16 says:

    thanks josh! really appreciate it..will try it out..

  109. bryan says:

    Great review. I just purchased the AP2's and have to say that I can't wait for them to arrive. I would encourage anyone that is going to buy them to try out several shaft combinations. I hit a really high ball, but found that the dynamic gold high launch worked best for me, even though that combo for me seemed a bit strange. Again, great review - keep up the good work

    Bryan - Dallas, TX

  110. Sagar says:

    Can AP2's be used by mid handicappers who are still working on their swing? I play 10-12.

  111. Josh says:

    yes, just make sure you got the right shafts fitted. I dont see any reason a 10-12 coudlnt as they are pretty forgiving... You will like them!

  112. Josh says:

    Brad-

    The number of putts per round is going to go up soon as you get these AP2's. LOL. Not a bad thing... Is what I mean to say is from my experience I'm not missing greens as often and having to chip up close to the hole and one put... hence dropping my putts per round. Instead your hitting more greens, and putting a little more... but being more consistant. I forgot what it's like to even chip now that I'm hitting these sticks. LOL.

  113. JohnMark says:

    Love the review!!! Started playing about 5 yrs ago with a used set of Eye 2's and never thought my old clubs were holding me back. i was playing to about a 18. Just bought a set of AP2's and was also worried, like others, i was just not good enough to justify spending the money. i'll admit the first couple were rough but they have really helped me figure out the flaws in my swing!!! I'm down to a 13 in only a month(putting is killing me) and am hitting more greens in reg then i can ever remember. So for those of you wondering if these are "too much club" or not a players club, i would advise you to take the risk. Nothing gets you out to the course/range more than making sure you get a return on your "investment". Titleist is right on in all aspects... drivers, balls, irons, and of course vokey's and camerons... my only question is why have all their big names in the past jumped ship just to have their new company replacate titleist products?

  114. rt says:

    I'm just a few times a month golfer, retiring in about 6 months.

    Been using 10 year old DCI's , shoot high 80's to mid 90"s, not to much golf equip. knowledge, but i do like Titlest. Most of you guys on here know your stuff, What do you think AP1 or AP2 ? to carry me into retirement

  115. Dana says:

    I'm just a few times a month golfer, retiring in about 6 months.

    Been using 10 year old DCI's , shoot high 80's to mid 90"s, not to much golf equip. knowledge, but i do like Titlest. Most of you guys on here know your stuff, What do you think AP1 or AP2 ? to carry me into retirement

    rt I think AP2's are the way to go. I played Callaway X-14's and got the AP2's because I wanted a club with forgiveness but still gave feed back. Whichever one you choose make sure you get fitted by someone. My Handicap is 11 and I only play 2 maybe 3 times a month. Hope this helps.

  116. josh says:

    Dana-

    Go hit them both.. you wont know until you hit them... then go with whatever one is going to make you more confident. I've always played a smaller headed iron vs. those oversized, but it's all personal preference at your handicap. The AP1's are obviously going to be more forgiving... but look at it this way. With retirement on its way, you'll be playing more, be more consistant, therefore may need the AP2's. lol

  117. Bock says:

    I just upgraded from 804 os to the AP2s. I haven't gotten to play a round yet and those results will follow in an entry after completion. My question is did any of you use a slightly different or modified address when switching to these clubs?

  118. josh says:

    no.. why would you do that? :shock: You shouldnt have to change your swing to adapt to the clubs.

  119. James Lawler says:

    I purchased a set a few months ago with PX6.0 as a back-up to my ZM's for the times I couldn't put in the practice time or was not swinging 100% and I have mixed feelings about them.

    Yes, they are forgiving (very forgiving), but the feel is muted, feedback is hard to fathom out, ball flight is very high and I still can't get used to the chunky look. The 8-pw are awful off tight lies. I have played them several times a week for the past two months, but am still not a fan. To booth the PX shaft are rotten - full stop.

    They are quality clubs and do seem to suit many golfers, but I am not a fan and am somewhat disappointed.

    Two weeks ago I bought a second hand set of Mizuno MP-32's in v/good condition with S-300 shafts. They are sweet, just as forgiving for me and much easier to shape and play knockdown shots. Despite all the technology in the AP2's the simple, old MP 32 outperforms it in every category.

    Result: My AP2's are now in the shed and will stay there!

    As a diehard Titleist fan I hope the next generation or AP2 or whatever it will be called looses the chunky shape, the tacky graphics and goes back to a more tradition shape.

    Titleist - please leave the shovel making to Callaway and stick to what you are good at

  120. SATX Golfer says:

    Titleist - please leave the shovel making to Callaway and stick to what you are good at

    While your final remark may have been aimed at Titleist, I feel as though you have slammed everyone's AP2's as shovels and they are most definitely not.

    The top line might be slightly heavier than what you are used to, but it is a long way from ungainly. I actually love the way these clubs look, both at address and the way they look in the bag. I have never owned a set of clubs that has garnered more attention from my playing companions, many of whom have played a few shots with them and loved them.

    I am still puzzled why you and other people hold on to the 1960's notion of feedback. Bottom line is that feed back is vibration, and while it does let you know how well you hit a shot, reducing the vibration does not masquerade a bad shot. I hit a lot of balls at the driving range, try a lot of things, and I don't hit every shot pure. I appreciate the more subdued feedback I get from the AP2's and so do my hands at the end of a couple of buckets.

    I find these clubs easy to work, both left and right. I can hit them high and low. And I can hit them off tight lies like crazy, so I am not sure what your issues were there. Swing?

    To me, clinging to pure blade irons is akin to skiers being unwilling to let go of their 210 centimeter straight skis. Just as shaped skis make that sport easier for skiers of all levels from expert to beginner, the modern cavity back blade makes the game easier for golfers of all levels. I don't see Titleist moving away from this successful configuration any time soon. Nor should they!

    :mrgreen:

  121. josh says:

    James-

    Maybe you should try them with a 5.5 shaft if your playing an S300.... the 6.0 is a fair amount stiffer I believe, and as you know, shafts make the most difference.

  122. josh says:

    SATX-

    Good response... I'm 100% with you there. These clubs are easy to work everywhere... and during rounds of golf i always have people looking at my irons.... maybe wondering how im pulling off some of the shots i do. ;-) lol. I guess everyone has their preferences though... I just think these clubs will set about any golfer up with a better game than a true conventional blade... you mis hit a regular blade and its easily a club shorter... these seem to be very forgiving for their blade like look.

  123. James Lawler says:

    To be fair the shovel comment was below the belt and I withdraw it. There was no intention to take a swipe at the AP2's as the choice many people.

    While I have always played a blade type club (because that is what I grew up with) I only bought the MP32's because I got them for €80, yes €80 and they are still a class act.

    I paid a lot of money for the AP2's trying to make the game more playable and staying loyal to Titleist. I am not a diehard blade junkie and don't believe in making the game more difficult. Many tour pro's make millions every year playing some form of cavity back - some who am I to argue or jump on the blade bandwagon. To booth I had a set of Titleist 755's and loved them!!

    Following your comments I put the AP2's back in the bag last night and will give them another go.

    To be fair I didn't get custom fitted. I tried the PX6.5 shaft yesterday in a fitting centre and it flew lower and longer - a much better fit. The guy also said I might need 1/2" longer than std - maybe they are just a bad fit!

  124. SATX Golfer says:

    I don't think you can ever underestimate the importance of fit. My AP2s are PX 6.0, 1/2" over, 2 degrees up. My buddy, who happens to play and love the 755s plays his at standard length, 2 degrees flat and he has some custom high end XS shaft in them. He can't hit my clubs at all. And he has tried. He knows they are good clubs, but he can't feel it.

    I hope you invest the time to have your new Titleists fit correctly. I will be very curious to hear your opinion of them afterwards. Good luck!!

    P.S. Classy response! You apology was welcome but unnecessary!

  125. josh says:

    correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the 6.5's were closer to the x100 dynamic golds? .... not the S300's you said you ran in your mp32s? I also believe the PX shafts are supposed to fly a little higher with less spin than the DG's... I've found they actually work a little better in the wind and they just hit and stop.... they dont spin back 20 ft like my DG's... and that's what I ran on my mp's

  126. James Lawler says:

    correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the 6.5's were closer to the x100 dynamic golds? .... not the S300's you said you ran in your mp32s? I also believe the PX shafts are supposed to fly a little higher with less spin than the DG's... I've found they actually work a little better in the wind and they just hit and stop.... they dont spin back 20 ft like my DG's... and that's what I ran on my mp's

    Yes, there are S300's in my MP-32's, but not by choice, I just bought them second hand. They are a little soft for me, but I can control the flight better with the mp-32 club head than the AP2's.

    Previously all my irons were fitted with X-100 shafts, which I prefer to amything on the market at the moment, but the KBS tour shafts are getting rave reviews, so I wouldn't mind trying them.

    With the AP2's most people said that the PX6.0 were a little boardy and that they were a lot stiffer than S-300's so I plumped for them without custom fitting - big mistake. I was told that it would take 4 weeks for a set of AP2's with x-100 shaft and patience got the better of me!

    Yesterday, I hit a mizuno MP67 six iron with a PX6.5 shaft. What a difference compared to the 6.0. I nailed it and loved the extra weight. I have tried a couple of irons with the PX6.5 and now see the PX shaft in a whole new light.

    I am going to see if I can arrange a swap/trade in on my AP2's for a custom fitted set.

  127. josh says:

    I see.. ya, its not going to be the club head... its likely the shaft. (most 6 irons have the same degree on the head or within 1 degree) :lol: The PX shaft is supposed to fly a little higher than the DG shaft, with less ball spin to affect the ball less during flight in wind. If you dont like the height, try some different shafts IMHO.

  128. chris says:

    I am in the market for new irons. Have played the 962's for 13 years. I am 26 years old and play to a 6.5 handicap. I am torn between the Titleist AP2, Callaway X Forged 09, and the Taylor Made Tour Preferred. I have hit all three indoors, but yet to hit them outside. So far the Callaway has the best feel. The blade and sole are the smallest which will help keep my swing in check. The Taylor Made Tour Preferred seemed to be the most forgiving, but the Titleist so far I liked the least. I am worried about the Titleist thick sole in the rough, and even on normal fairway lies. Please reply with feedback for me. Keep in mind I live 10 mins from bethpage which is my home course.

    Thanks,
    '
    Chris

  129. James Lawler says:

    I am in the market for new irons. Have played the 962's for 13 years. I am 26 years old and play to a 6.5 handicap. I am torn between the Titleist AP2, Callaway X Forged 09, and the Taylor Made Tour Preferred. I have hit all three indoors, but yet to hit them outside. So far the Callaway has the best feel. The blade and sole are the smallest which will help keep my swing in check. The Taylor Made Tour Preferred seemed to be the most forgiving, but the Titleist so far I liked the least. I am worried about the Titleist thick sole in the rough, and even on normal fairway lies. Please reply with feedback for me. Keep in mind I live 10 mins from bethpage which is my home course.

    Thanks,
    '
    Chris

    I appear to be the one decenting voice in all the comments toward the AP2's. I put them back in the bag, played 4 more rounds, but, still have no love for them. They are currently up for sale.

    I found the thick chunky head caught up in the rough and the wide clumsy sole grind akward off tight lies. I don't care if that seems harsh, but my old MP32's would wipe the floor with the AP2's any day.

    I still have a set of ZM's and its hard to believe how these could be so beautiful, clean and work like surgical instruments, but the AP2's are so ugly and cumbersome

    My advice is to buy the 09 X-forged. I demo'ed these (played a full round) and they were the best clubs I have hit for years. They are soft, responsive, workable and easy to, hit from any lie. Note: I am a diehard Titleist fan and always believed Callaway made shovels (x-prototypes not included - superb).

    Callaway are now making really really good "players type irons" and the new 09 X-forged irons are excellent.

    I am sorry to all who are passionate about the AP2's in this thread, but I stand alone and say "Titleist - you could have done better, much better"

  130. josh says:

    What are you guys doing in the rough??? :grin:

  131. SATX Golfer says:

    What are you guys doing in the rough??? :grin:

    Mizuno = Japanese for "Hit it crooked!" ;-)

    Callaway = "Here is a shovel!"

  132. chris says:

    We'll I bought the AP2's today...Got them fitted, but still not sure which shaft would be best for me the Project X 5.5, 6.0 or 6.5...What does everyone suggest?

  133. SATX Golfer says:

    We'll I bought the AP2's today...Got them fitted, but still not sure which shaft would be best for me the Project X 5.5, 6.0 or 6.5...What does everyone suggest?

    Congrats! What made you go with them? Sounded like you were leaning toward Callaway at first!

    The consensus here is that a 6.0 is slightly stiffer than a DG S300, if that helps! I have 6.0s in mine and I am likely near the bottom limit of swing speed to hit them. I would suggest that if you are consistently over 100 mph with your driver then 6.0s will be perfect. If you are in the 110 to 115 range then perhaps think about the 6.5s, but they are a lot of shaft.

    Bottom line is get what works for you. I got great advice from a fitter once when I wanted to get extra stiff shafts (which then fit my swing speed). He said it was not so much about how hard you can swing, as how hard you do swing. Those are very different things. I for one love to take lots of club and "smooth" the ball in as opposed to hitting the 90% swing. If you are the same then think about the softer shafts. If you usually swing hard then stick with more firm shafts.

  134. James Lawler says:

    STAX

    You are spot on with the shaft recommendations. My driver SS is consistiently 115mph ave and a move to a 6.5 from 6.0 has been a revelation

  135. SATX Golfer says:

    STAX

    You are spot on with the shaft recommendations. My driver SS is consistiently 115mph ave and a move to a 6.5 from 6.0 has been a revelation

    Did you put the 6.5 shafts in your AP2s, or the Mizunos?

  136. Jacob says:

    Guys i just purchased a set of the ap2's..... i am very excited about the purchase i was playin the 755's which were a great club! but i went to the galaxy of golf and hit the ap 2's and fell in love! i got them fitted 2* flat and 1/2" off the shaft. i am very excited but i have to wait 2 to 3 weeks for them to get in. but i am very very worried that maybe i got the wrong shaft i was goin with the project x 5.5 when the fitter told me i needed to go with the 5.0!!! i am scared that maybe they are not gonna be stiff enough... i am 16 years old with a 8 handicap... but i only hit a 6 150 yds... although i swing very very hard and i was just wonderin if anybody knew if havin a shaft not stiff enough could cause loss of distance??????? please somebody answer my question and put me out of misery lol!

  137. SATX Golfer says:

    Guys i just purchased a set of the ap2's..... i am very excited about the purchase i was playin the 755's which were a great club! but i went to the galaxy of golf and hit the ap 2's and fell in love! i got them fitted 2* flat and 1/2" off the shaft. i am very excited but i have to wait 2 to 3 weeks for them to get in. but i am very very worried that maybe i got the wrong shaft i was goin with the project x 5.5 when the fitter told me i needed to go with the 5.0!!! i am scared that maybe they are not gonna be stiff enough... i am 16 years old with a 8 handicap... but i only hit a 6 150 yds... although i swing very very hard and i was just wonderin if anybody knew if havin a shaft not stiff enough could cause loss of distance??????? please somebody answer my question and put me out of misery lol!

    The 5.0s are not the stiffest shaft in the world, but the fact you have had them shortened will firm them up a little. Did they "tip" your shafts or take the length off the butt end? Or do you even know?

    They say, whoever "they" are, that 6.0s are suitable for someone who hits a 6-iron 180 - 185 yds. So at 150 you are certainly a ways away from 6.0s. 5.5s would likely have been slightly on the stiff side for you, but playable, and the 5.0s might be right in your "wheel house". I guess you will find out when you hit them.

    Remember it is not how hard you swing, but how much clubhead speed you generate. You might feel like you are swinging hard, but that doesn't mean you get the club moving fast. If you did you would hit the 6-iron further. So...

    IMHO I think you can relax. The 5.0s will likely work well for you. As you grow and get stronger that might change.

    Good luck!!

  138. josh says:

    I would have went with what they said. hitting the club that far requires a Regular shaft in dynamic golds and the 5.5 is comprible to the stiff. I hit a 6 iron 180 and i hit the 5.5's. I think a lot has to do with tempo though. I dont have the fastest transition at the top like some who would need the 6.0's at my speed. For instance, tiger... fast transition... freddy... slower transition but both are close in distance yet tiger needs a stiffer shaft.

  139. Jacob says:

    thanks so much for your coments. i really appreciate it. i was just scared that maybe the club wasnt catching up and i was hitting the ball high on the club face. but two things SATX said really helped getting them shortened stiffens them and just cause i am swinging hard doesnt mean the clubhead is goin fast. and like josh said alot has to do with tempo! but maybe once i grow a little bit and get stronger i will hit it farther and maybe hopefully havin a 5.0 shaft will not hurt any at all. thanks again..

  140. SATX Golfer says:

    thanks so much for your coments. i really appreciate it. i was just scared that maybe the club wasnt catching up and i was hitting the ball high on the club face. but two things SATX said really helped getting them shortened stiffens them and just cause i am swinging hard doesnt mean the clubhead is goin fast. and like josh said alot has to do with tempo! but maybe once i grow a little bit and get stronger i will hit it farther and maybe hopefully havin a 5.0 shaft will not hurt any at all. thanks again..

    No problem! If it helps any I played with a top female high school player this weekend. She was about 5' 9" and hit the ball VERY well. She hit her 7-iron about 150 yds easily. She didn't play AP2s but she she had Project X 5.0s in her TMs. It sounds like she might hit the ball just a little further than you and she loved her clubs. She had them re-shafted with the PXs and said they were like a whole new set. So...

    I think you are in good shape. I will be curious to hear how you like them once you get to hit them. Good luck!!

  141. WeedWhacker says:

    I was shopping for a new set of irons last week, and I hit everything (6 irons) they had in the pro shop. I actually figured I would buy '09 Taylor Made Burner irons, after all I had read about them (I am a 12 handicap, aspiring to single digit). I tried Nike V-Red, Titleist AP2, TM Burners, Callaway X-22 and X-22 tours, TM R7's, Mizuno MP-60, Ping Rapture, to name a few. I currently have a well aged set of Callaway X-16 Steelheads. After hitting all these different clubs, much to my suprise, the Titleist AP2's were far and above any other. Just awesome for me, high, soft, long ball flight, and workable. I got fitted, and received my 4-PW today! :grin: I am super excited to get them on the course and try them for a full round. I will play on 18 July, and will post my results here.

  142. Josh in ID says:

    Went and got fitted for AP2's yesterday. I have a bit of a connundrum. I have a choice really between the Project X 6.5 and the DG 100's. With the 6 iron, the DG 100's seemed to be a lot better ball flight. For those who have swung the Project X shafts, what is the short iron ball flight like? I was intrigued by the flighted shafts in the project x, to drop my ball flight a bit on my short irons (they have ice of them when they come down).

    Lastly, I am at the upper end of the shaft length profile. On my old DCI's, I was out on the toe, and up on the club head a bit. Will the degree adjustment be enough (2.0 upright), because the fitter mentioned that i could go a half inch on the shafts as well. So has anyone made the adjustment to longer shafts, could you give me some feed back?

  143. SATX Golfer says:

    Went and got fitted for AP2's yesterday. I have a bit of a connundrum. I have a choice really between the Project X 6.5 and the DG 100's. With the 6 iron, the DG 100's seemed to be a lot better ball flight. For those who have swung the Project X shafts, what is the short iron ball flight like? I was intrigued by the flighted shafts in the project x, to drop my ball flight a bit on my short irons (they have ice of them when they come down).

    Lastly, I am at the upper end of the shaft length profile. On my old DCI's, I was out on the toe, and up on the club head a bit. Will the degree adjustment be enough (2.0 upright), because the fitter mentioned that i could go a half inch on the shafts as well. So has anyone made the adjustment to longer shafts, could you give me some feed back?

    I would actually love to hear about other peoples experiences, too, Josh. I am tall, 6'4" but I have long arms. I have played in a variety of configurations ranging from standard length w/3 to 4 degrees upright to my AP2s which are .5" over and 1 degree up. there is a distinct relationship between shaft length and lie angle and I beleive the correct configuration is very dependent on your stance and angle of attack. It would be impossible to make any kind of recommendation to you, IMHO.

    I have seen a lower ball flight with all my clubs that have the PX 6.0s. However, I was also making a slight swing change when I switched so I couldn't be certain the shafts were responsible. All I can tell you is I love the way they feel.

  144. Dana says:

    I would actually love to hear about other peoples experiences, too, Josh. I am tall, 6'4" but I have long arms. I have played in a variety of configurations ranging from standard length w/3 to 4 degrees upright to my AP2s which are .5" over and 1 degree up. there is a distinct relationship between shaft length and lie angle and I beleive the correct configuration is very dependent on your stance and angle of attack. It would be impossible to make any kind of recommendation to you, IMHO.

    I have seen a lower ball flight with all my clubs that have the PX 6.0s. However, I was also making a slight swing change when I switched so I couldn't be certain the shafts were responsible. All I can tell you is I love the way they feel.

    I played Callaways at 1" over, 1deg upright, constance weighted shafts and jumbo grips(fitted at Callaway in Carlsbad, inside) and my AP2's are 1/4" over, 2 deg upright PX 5.5's and Midsize grips(fitted at my local course, outside) I'm 6'4" and like you have long arms. The change may be due to my age and time between clubs(10 years). I said earlier I'm not spraying the ball like before but have lost about ten yards which I'll take any day.

  145. Rob says:

    I've been hitting a used demo set of ap2's a few times each week at my local range. I want to get fitted for a brand new set but I am thinking about what shaft to put in. I like the way the ap2's have a lightweight feel compared to my old ping isi's , but I was wondering if it is possible to go lighter?? For me the lighter the club feels the smoother my swing and clubhead speed definitely increases.

  146. SATX Golfer says:

    I've been hitting a used demo set of ap2's a few times each week at my local range. I want to get fitted for a brand new set but I am thinking about what shaft to put in. I like the way the ap2's have a lightweight feel compared to my old ping isi's , but I was wondering if it is possible to go lighter?? For me the lighter the club feels the smoother my swing and clubhead speed definitely increases.

    I find it interesting you find the AP2s lighter. I feel quite the opposite with my AP2s. Thinking about it, and not being able to weigh them to be sure, perhaps it is simply that I feel the clubhead more with my AP2s than I did with my previous set, forged Cleveland TA3s with DG S300s in them. I had attributed it to a heavier head on the Titleists and all the tungsten positioned low, but perhaps it is due to the PXs being lighter. Regardless, I like the way they feel. I always know where my clubhead is which in turn lets me swing better.

    I am not aware of the PX shafts coming any lighter, nor do I think you will find better performance than the PXs in a lighter shaft from another manufacturer, but perhaps with your swing/feel you might find a different shaft that feels right to you.

    When you say your swing speed inxcreases with light shafts, what are we talking about in terms of speed? Before and after?

  147. Evan says:

    Guys.
    I am 13 years old looking for new irons. I am a 20 hdcp. My 6-iron goes 140 yds, and I am looking for a little more distance, as well as accuracy. Something easy to hit out of the rough would be nice. Looking at TM Tour Prefered and TB's, Callaway X-22 & X-22 tour, maybe even Mizuino Mp-52. I can't decide. :sad: Any help would be appreciated.
    Evan

  148. SATX Golf says:

    Guys.
    I am 13 years old looking for new irons. I am a 20 hdcp. My 6-iron goes 140 yds, and I am looking for a little more distance, as well as accuracy. Something easy to hit out of the rough would be nice. Looking at TM Tour Prefered and TB's, Callaway X-22 & X-22 tour, maybe even Mizuino Mp-52. I can't decide. :sad: Any help would be appreciated.
    Evan

    Evan,

    I don't know whether you will like what I am about to write, but it's worth considering regardless.

    All of the clubs you are considering are great clubs, but neither your age nor your ability demand that quality of golf club. At your age you are still growing and if you are serious about improving then you should have the clubs properly fit, which means they will be too small for you a year or so from now. As such, a new set of $700 to $999 clubs would seem like a waste of money to me, especially if I was your parents.

    That being said, there is nothing wrong with you playing with a quality set of golf clubs that slightly exceed your ability to play you your game can grow into them.

    My suggestion would be to go to your local used golf club store and find the best set of clubs available as a combination of price and quality. While the club manufacturers would love you to think new clubs are leaps and bounds better than those of last year or the year before, the fact is they are not significantly better. As such, a top quality set of used clubs from a couple of years ago in good shape are just as good as the new sets of clubs sitting on the wall in your local golf shop.

    So, what do you look for?

    One, make sure they have quality shafts in them. If you read the posts above you will find a lot of discussion about shafts which should tell you how important good shafts are to your game. I have no idea how big you are, but 1if you hit 40 yd 6-irons you are are not a long hitter, so R/Regular shafts would likely be in order, i.e. Dynamic Gold R100s.

    Two, do not get blades at this point. While you may well want them in a few years, the fact is you are still learning to play and will get nothing out of them at this point. Find yourself something forgiving with a slight cavity back/perimeter weighting that wil help you get the ball in the air. I have never been fond of dramtically cavity backed "game improvement" irons, but clubs such as Cleveland TA3, Ping I-10 Blades (not really a blade), some Callaway X series, Mizuno MX 25s etc., would all be right in your wheel house.

    Three, put at least two hybrids in your set!! I can't empahsize that enough! I would consider a set consisting of a driver, a 3 wood, a 2 AND 3 hybrid and possibly a 4 hybrid as well, although at your age I would like you learn to hit the 4-iron rather than the hybrid even though you would find the equivalent hybrid easier to play.

    The used club stores always have an abundance of used drivers, and fairways woods. I have no doubt you will find something you like if you haven't already. Again, at this point I would be looking at regular shaft stiffness at most, as you will get more distance out of them at this point.

    Finally, play at least 3 wedges. A PW, a gap wedge, and either a SW or LW should be in your set. Again, the used shops have lots of wedges. At this point in your golf career you have an opportunity to try out all sorts of wedges, and whether used Vokeys, Clevelands, or whatever, you should start to find what you like in the department.

    Okay, this is really lastly, find yourself a fairly straight forward putter, not a big mallet or 2-ball style putter. I learned using Bulls Eyes, Wilson 8802s, etc. The rest of the people out here will echo that these are not easy to use, but very effective when you do. To use these style putters you REALLY had to learn to putt. Once you do that, then you can start to take advantage of the more radically designed putters of today. I now use a TM Monza Corsa (center shafted).

    I hope that helps!!

  149. Josh (ID) says:

    Purchased my AP2's last week. Waiting for them to ship. Got 1/2 long, and 2 degrees upright with DGX100 shafts. I am beyond excited. I will let you know what I find out.

    As for Evan, I agree completely with SATX. As a former salesman for a golf retail shop, the biggest mistake high handicappers make is getting a club they can't handle. To be honest the AP2 for a 20 handicapper may not give you what you need right now. There is no shame in finding a set of irons that better fit your swing profile. And as SATX said put as many hybrids in your bag as you can.

    I am and still not a big fan of putting kids in to 900 dollar iron sets. First your swing style is going to change a truckload over the next few years, and secondly I would like to think you are going to grow considerably. If you have the money to reshaft, then fine, but I think there are cheaper and fairly good options as a gap to when you get your swing grooved. I would suggest Taylor made R-7's as I have had ton of great feed back from mid- handicappers on those (added advantage you can typically find those pretty cheap), adams golf has a set that includes hybrids that has gotten rave reviews.

  150. Evan says:

    Thanks guys
    R7's. So about $300. What about the Nike sumo hybrid sets or Nike Ignites? Also, I need a lob wedge. Would a nike Satin Chrome wedge be good? ($70).
    Evan

  151. Craig says:

    I have played PING clubs for years and finally purchased a set of AP2's on ebay. I bought the irons with DG S300 shafts because I like the heavier feel. The Project X shafts felt much too rigid and stiff for my swing. I played i10's and never really got any better at finding my target, maybe it was the stock PING shaft that never really performed very well. PING irons really have very little feedback. My scores have recently been in the 70's due to a large part of my AP2's. Great feeling club with solid feedback. Good job Titleist in producing this great forged iron.

  152. Evan says:

    Also:
    G5, and Cobra Fp.
    What about a burner driver?

  153. Jacob says:

    Well guys i have finally had the ap2's for about a week. And I can't tell a $1200 difference from my 755's but no doubt they are a better club. I have a heckava lot more control and workability. Absolutely love the Project X shaft. Plus is it just me or do these clubs get and absolute ton of spin!? All in all though i really like these clubs probaly played 4 rounds and yet to shoot in the 80's! Now if i could just get my FT-9 workin i would be doin real good lol! One thing that has really threw me for a loop is the first day i hit the and played 13 holes i was hittin every club at least 10 yards farther???? This has yet to happen again! On one hole i hit a 160 yrd 7 iron which is incredible for me. Now i am hitting it 145 so i have definitely picked up a 1/2 club in distance. But its really awkward how the first day i hit them that good lol my Dad really thinks im crazy and i am begining to think so too lol. But i really do like the clubs. Probably the only downer for me personaly is every little mishit goes 10-15 yards less than a center shot. But that should help me become a better golfer! And an absolute huge upset is that Titleist is fixin to launch for new sets in Fall... But o well. I have mine now lol. But all in all great club especially control workability and feel wise.

  154. Evan says:

    Jacob.
    Why dont you trade your FT-( for an eaiser to hit club like an FT-IQ or Nike Sumo2?

  155. Jacob says:

    lol well i have been hittin it good its crazy prolly 95% literally i am in the fairway just here lately i havent been lol
    really lol i think it could be the height of the tee but idk lol i am actually fixin to go to the range and figure it out.

  156. Evan says:

    lol. Maybe. ;-)

  157. Jacob says:

    well i didnt figure it out yet lol
    played another 9 with the ap's also and they really are a sweet club!
    hit 8 out of 9 greens just couldnt putt lol
    hit like 1 fairway lol

  158. The look and makeup of these irons sound very similar to the Nike Forged CCI irons... Did anyone else pick up on that?

    I noticed the same thing as soon as I saw these irons.

    Erik - How do these play in comparison to the CCi Forged?

    Seems like Nike were on to something good, but they came with the VRs Splits which are very similar to the Pro Combos.

    Meanwhile, looks like Titleist may have taken the "idea" or "bones" of the CCi technology to another level?

    The CCi provides good feedback and excellent workability - IMO.

  159. Erik - How do these play in comparison to the CCi Forged?

    I don't know. I didn't review the CCIs.

    I will say this, though, about your other comments: a lot of clubs have a design "similar" to this if your definition of "similar" is really broad.

    To me, the AP2 and the CCI forged are both cavity-backed player's clubs, and the true similarities end there.

  160. The Walking Golfer says:

    Well, the CCi Forged have a tungsten weight that lowers the CG and gives boring ball flight, similar to the AP2, and a polymer insert that is supposed to enhance feel, similar to the AP2.

    The head design is also similar in that they are not conventional "cavity back forged" where the weight is distributed fairly evenly around the head - they both have a solid lower half and a smaller cavity at the top.

    Thus the curiousity on if they feel and play similarly.

    Thanks for your response.

  161. Jacob says:

    Guys i just wanted to say that the more i play with these ap2's i absolutely just love these clubs!!!
    Played a match today in High School golf and the first 2 holes i played were par 3's and hit to rock solid shots 2 feet combined from the hole Absolutely love em!!!!
    dont even care that Titleist is about to launch a new set of ap2's

  162. Josh (ID) says:

    Finally played with my AP2's the other day. Few observations..
    1. The Project X shaft definately isn't for everyone. I tested those at length and I am happy with the DG X100's. In fact I love the DG X100's. I went a .5 inch long that took some stiffness out of the shaft, but for those who like myself have a high towering ball flight, I would suggest at looking at the DG's.
    2. The AP2 heads while bulky, have incredible balance. First 6 iron I hit, carried and carried. I think I might lose a bit of distance because of the shaft stiffness, but I got more than enough back because the ball flight is 100 times better than my old 962's.
    3. Impressively, these clubs really respond when you go down after the golf ball. In fact, unlike my old set, you are not penalized by making aggressive swings. I would give the analogy that these clubs are a like a finely tuned sports car. They are great 70 but wait until you hit 85 or 90.

    The shaft/head combination worked out quite well for me so far. I love the feel, the control and the new predictibility with the iron. Definately a wise investment.

  163. SATX Golfer says:

    I'm glad to hear you like them, Josh. I never had a doubt, but you just never know because we're all diffferent.

    I would love you to expand on your "high soaring" theory. I'm 6'4" and I hit everything high. I have found that my PX 6.0s hit the ball slightly lower than I am used to, but with a piercing flight in which the ball carries/flies better than the DG S300s I have always played in the past.

    Ironically, I think the balance/feel you are getting out of your AP2s is directly related to the slightly heavier look/design. There is simply no way a true blade or even a muscle back could ever duplicate the performance and feel of these clubs shot after shot. I could see where if you were a truly elite player (i.e. top 20 at Hazeltine this week) where you might have some advantage with a blade, but even out there on tour the vast majority of Tour payers play a cavity design of some sort. They have the advantage of being able to play multiple club designs fit perfectly to them, and the number of players who subsequently gravitate to a cavity of some sort speaks volumes. They earn their living with their clubs and as such they choose the tools that make them money.

    Lastly, like you, I know I made the right choice in the AP2s. My only concern was that the PX 6.0s were going to be too stiff, but I am hitting the ball as far as ever, and at 51 years of age that is saying something. I imagine the extra 1/2" have softened my shafts just the right amount as well. Unlike you, I did not have the option of going through an extensive fitting process. I actually bought my AP2s used. They had belonged to a local mini tour pro I know who is built just like me, and I just stumbled upon them in the used bin at my local Edwin Watts. They were in perfect condition and a steal at $500. They were already extended, bent upright a defree, had mid-sized grips, etc., and they fit me perfetly when we tested them on strike boards, etc. My only concern was the shafts, but once I played them even that concern was eliminated.

    Have fun with them!!! :grin: The good news is the new model AP2s don't look much different so you won't be looking over your shoulder for a long while!!

  164. Josh (ID) says:

    SATX,

    I know my response to hitting a high ball flight probably at best was ambiguous. I hit a golf ball in the middle of my stance that goes very high in a quick hurry and tends to float and then descend very quickly. Likely because I am quite wristy. My experience with the project x shafts because of the almost split level ball flight, the golf ball seemed to flutter and lose momentum and land much of the time almost like a drop shot in tennis.

    My conclusion and after conferring with a couple different pro's is that as current, my swing, had tons of speed but there was little initial outward project of the ball. My ball flight looks like a very steep parabola. Wheras the project x, at least in my estimation promotes a ball flight that seem to come into conflict with my ball flight. All it wanted to do was send my gb higher. The DG's while swinging the three or for different combinaiton from the Ultra lights to the DG X100's seemed to with the kick point push the ball out a bit more to give myself a bit better ball flight. Thus my conclusion that those who had a very high ball flight might find a more beneficial ball flight from the DG's because the kick point seems to take the ball out of the stratosphere a bit. I was merely pointing that out for those who were considering the PX's only. The DG X100 is an incredible shaft.

    I tool was concerned about the stiffness, getting the half inch extension helped me two ways...I could have gone as far as 3 degree upright, but the extension of the shaft gave me a bit softer shaft that puts the ball more on center.

  165. Haystack says:

    I've been playing golf for over 60 years, the last 25 with the same muscle back blades w stiff/steel shafts. My handicap 3 years ago was a lifetime best of 5. For various reasons I haven't played much the last 3 years and my game has suffered accordingly...especially my iron play, but I'm starting to play again and am encouraged after finally breaking 80 for the first time in three years. Today I tried out every club made at a very large local golf course shop. By far and away the Titliest A2's with graphite regular shafts felt the best...pure, straight, high flight, and I could work the ball a little in each direction. At this point they're the only clubs I feel comfortable with. I'm excited about the prospect of using these clubs but at $1300 (including tax) I'm a little hesitant to jump on it. I could use some feedback about just how to make sure I'm making the right move and just how to approach it...don't suggest other clubs, these clubs have got me "hooked".

  166. zuko says:

    Haystack,

    As a professional club fitter I recently re-built a set of Ap-2's for a local pro. He'd been sent a new set (free) from Titliest. The shafts need to be replaced as the frequencies ( flex values) were all over the place and tip-cut way too stiff. Even for him, a 13 year PGA Tour pro.

    I guess my point is, buying 1300 bucks worth of clubs off the rack is a hell of gamble. For that price you can have a set custom made from pretty much the finest components available- heads, shafts, etc. This really isn't meant to be a plug for club makers, I demo'ed the AP-2's after rebuilding and thought they were great, I'm sure you'd be satisfied, I would just make sure you buy the clubs you actually hit and liked....even if they're a bit used. OEM stuff is a crap shoot.

  167. SATX Golfer says:

    Haystack,

    As a professional club fitter I recently re-built a set of Ap-2's for a local pro. He'd been sent a new set (free) from Titliest. The shafts need to be replaced as the frequencies ( flex values) were all over the place and tip-cut way too stiff. Even for him, a 13 year PGA Tour pro.

    I guess my point is, buying 1300 bucks worth of clubs off the rack is a hell of gamble. For that price you can have a set custom made from pretty much the finest components available- heads, shafts, etc. This really isn't meant to be a plug for club makers, I demo'ed the AP-2's after rebuilding and thought they were great, I'm sure you'd be satisfied, I would just make sure you buy the clubs you actually hit and liked....even if they're a bit used. OEM stuff is a crap shoot.

    I am curious, Zuko. I can't help but agree that mass produced clubs won't match the specs of a carefully made set of custom clubs, but how much differerence do you think a golfer like Haystack would honestly see? He says he has been playing for 60 yrs, so chances are he is 70 or older.

    At professional swing speeds and their demands for precise distance and predictable control I can see where mismatched shaft frequencies might be a factor, but for a 70 year old with what I am guessing is at most an 80 to 90 MPH swing speed I doubt he will even notice anything wrong with his shafts. Unless he is a rare case I imagine he bump and runs most shots into greeens and will rarely "kick" a shaft to anywhere close to its limits.

    Thoughts?

  168. zuko says:

    Hi SATX Golfer,

    Lots of stuff here.

    In no particular order:

    Uniformed viewpoint: For a 70 yr old to consider the AP-2 his best choice at this stage of his career is a bit puzzling, but hey,they're fine irons and everyone has different needs. But if we agree he likely has a moderate swing speed, then a quality, thin faced cavity back would seen a more appropriate choice in the first place. Consider the Tom Wishon 770 CFE with forged insert for instance. There's others of course in that catagory. But...

    He didn't say which graphite shafts he was getting, but generally my experience with OEM graphite is a pretty mixed bag of poorly rated flexes and the tip flexes are a coin toss ...
    even the better names in graphite rarely seem to live up to their after market cousin's reputations.

    Bringing me back to the original point I suppose, that at around 175$ a club, Haystack has a nearly unlimited choice of really fine aftermarket shafts with exceptional performance in very light light weights with solid stability. The SK Fiber Pure Energy at 65 grams for instance. Available in Stiff if necessary. I'm assuming, again, a typical 70 year old with good skills that wouldn't mind something light and fast - and that is perfectly matched to his needs.

    As far as the "preciseness" of frequency matching or Kick points, folks like Haystack are exactly the type that benefit most from a really good fitting. A repeatable swing - regardless of the speed - that takes advantage of a reliable distance variance between each club. How many times have you heard " no difference between my 5 & 6 iron". Well matched frequency puts all his clubs in play.

    Lastly... "and (he) will rarely"kick" a shaft to anywhere close to its limits." That's just the point. With a well fitted flex and bend point, not some guess off the rack, that's exactly what is designed to happen, fully utilizing the advantage the shaft can provide - regardless of the flex, they all can be fully loaded.

    This is really not meant to be a "fitters rant", it's just that I see so many guys fall in love with (high end) clubs that really don't suit them as they think they will and would have been much better off - especially at 70 - consulting a professional and getting a great set of clubs with higher quality components..especially shafts.e

    BTW ...Good stuff here, thanx

    zuko

  169. SATX Golfer says:

    :smile:

    Thanks, Zuko! I have to admit I kind of set you up a little, but thank you for the detailed explanation. Hopefully it helps Haystack and others.

    This week Frank Thomas had a great discussion about shafts you might like to read:

    http://www.franklygolf.com/QA_weekly.html

    I guess the one thing that really disturbs me is the quality of so called top line golf clubs. Are they truly that bad? Do you see much difference in the quality of graphite vs steel? In steel, True Temper vs Precision or more specifically DG300 vs PX 6.0? Just how much variability do you see? How does that translate to differences in ball flight?

    I know the shafts in my AP2s were installed at the factory. I can't point to any one club and say that it performs any differently than any other. My distances seem to have the proper intervals between clubs, too.

    Once I get home I will have another question to you. I have an old R580 with a Proforce 65 shaft and an original R7 with a V2 of similar weight. Once I can send you the specific specs I would like to ask you why I am hitting the old 580 significantly further. It's been a surprise to me having put the R580 back in my bag the past few weeks.

  170. Haystack says:

    Thanks Zuko and SATX Golfer for kicking me around a little and questioning how an old codger like me could possibly swing a "player's club". I was shocked as well because, as I prefaced my remarks...I went into the golf shop to try out Adams hybrid clubs, but ended up hitting literally every club of every brand in the shop...and, it's big shop. With your comments in mind, I went back the shop and tried them again, and then I did something I did not do before; I took my own 25 year old Nevada Bob "Prima" irons with Stiff steel shafts to compare shot by shot. To my shock, I hit the Primas just as well and actually hit them a little further than the AP-2's. Mind you, this was all off those driving range carpets...I could hit a broomstick off those carpets...but it makes the comparison of clubs easier. To be true, I really do not understand all the esoteric terms you use about the make up of clubs, shaft idio- syncracies,etc....you either hit the ball better or worse by comparison. Again, thanks for the feedback. I will approach my search for the "magic" club that will fit my needs with an improved knowledge of what I'm looking for.

  171. zuko says:

    Hi Satx Golfer,

    Yeah, I did chomp on that bait pretty good...but hey, couldn't pass it up....

    No, the top line clubs aren't that bad - lots of great designs out there - IF they happen to the right club for you. But too often the romance gets in the way of the reality.

    In the graphite vs steel thing, I have no problem with OEM steel. It's usually stock stuff anyway, i.e. PX or DG S300, etc. Same stuff I use in blanks. The problem with steel comes in when they cut the tip flex for the higher clubs...8, 9, pw, (sw). These flexes in production clubs are invariably waaaay too stiff. Folks who've never actually had the proper tip flex in their attack clubs have no idea what they are missing in loss of spin and feel with approach shots. Not to mention distance control.

    Do you ( generally) swing your 9 & PW with the same force as your 5 or 6 ? I doubt it. Approach lofted clubs are meant to produce a variety of shots, and almost never at full tilt boogie.

    As for the graphite, that's a crap shoot. There's no telling what you'll get. Remember: these "high end" clubs from the major makers are designed to be discounted 20-40% with-in a few months of the model debut. They can't be putting in quality graphite, sorry, that's not how the marketing wagon rolls. No way they're putting in even mid-level stuff. It's not a profit margin reality.

    And believe me, even high handicappers notice when these cheap shafts with the pretty paint are spraying all over the place.

    Speaking of which,

    Your R7 V2 shaft is not a "real" V2. Even though the paint is nearly identical. The after market V2 is marked a few inches above the tip section with the flex indicator inscription. Yours does not - if it came with the R7 from factory. And the specs, printed on the back, are different.

    I believe it claims a 2.2 - a very low torque torque rating. The "real" after market V2 is 3.0 I think. Maybe 3.3? Anyway, this can cause a the tip section to be too stiff for you - even though the overall flex rating might be appropriate you still aren't making this shaft work to potential. One possibility.

    (I've hit both, and the Taylormade V2 feels kinda weird, like it can't decide where the bend point is.)

    The shaft in your 580 is one of the ga-gillion Proforce 65's produced. But, (as far as I know), they really didn't make a special OEM version. They were just really stable shafts and perform with great consistency and feel.....which is likely the reason you're able to catch the ball near the center of the club face more often....which is the reason for the distance difference.

    Guessing of course, but I'll bet if you used some impact tape on both drivers you'd see the 580 consistently more near the center. Club head speed being the same, that's generally the best answer. The heads themselves aren't likely to contribute a great deal of difference in those particular models.

    Another long answer...sorry, still awake?

  172. zuko says:

    Hey Haystack,

    Certainly didn't mean to " kick you around" about you preferences. : ) Just being a bit of a golf wonk.

    But don't discount that fact that you LIKED the Titelist's. Their look or what ever. One of my first questions I asked people when I've made my recommendations for clubs is "Do you LIKE them?".

    Most of the macho guys tell " I don't care as long as they work". But that's not really the point. And most of them are lying. Confidence is confidence -no matter where you get it. I'll bet in 60 years you've looked down at a few clubs and thought they could do no wrong, eh?

    Myself, I can hit anything, blades to bagels, not bragging, but I do this for a living. But you hand me a Ping iron and I couldn't hit a water hazard if I was standing in it. Ugliest damn things...they give me the willies.

    So there's certainly nothing wrong with your preferences. The AP-2 is a great stick and a good choice. Just don't get stuck in shafts so heavy or stiff you feel like you've been fighting Indians by the back nine.

    zuko

  173. SATX Golfer says:

    Actually my R7 V2 is a real V2 in that I bought it after market. Originally it had the factory TP Speeder in it which unfortunately snapped at the head one one night on the driving range. I knew I had liked the older Proforce (also aftermarket. The 581 had the stock Taylormade shaft in it when it was gifted to me) so I put the V2 in my driver. I hit the V2 well and until I had played with it for a while and switched back to the old 580 I didn't think I was missing anything. I even put a V2 into my R7 3-wood. That is a story all by itself. I swapped a couple of different versions of the TM Reax (sp?) and never found one I could kick. The V2 I can but I don't hit it any further than my TM Rescue Mid 2 Hybrid which I hit around 230 to 240 off the tee. The 3-wood has a much lower flight path however, so both are still useful. The 2 Resuce has a stock TM shaft I have never bothered to switch out. I have a 3 and 4 that match and I like the way they all perform.

    Your discussion about the tip of the V2 is likely why I haven't been hitting my 3-wood as well as I would like unless I really go after it which I don't like to do.

    Anyway, thanks for all the input, and I think you did a great job with Haystack.

  174. J Lawler says:

    SATX Golfer

    Remember me, the guy with no love for the AP2's and loyal to MP32's??

    I got my AP2's refitted with PX6.5, 1/2" longer and 2 deg upright.

    Took them out and shot +4 first round

    WOW, my best round since my college days.

    I take back everything I said about these clubs and for anyone reading these comments and thinking about purchasing AP2's - GET PROPERLY FITTED.

    I bought mine off the shelf and hated them, I just couldn't get a good strike on the ball

    Once re-fitted to suit me they were a REVALATION

    My ZM's and MP32's will be going on eBay soon

  175. zuko says:

    YES ! Zuko is pleased!

    Hi J lawler,

    Congrats on the revelation...

    So now you get it .. ..fitters like myself wincing in pain as we watch those new, shiny, thousand dollar (mizuno, etc.) iron sets fly off the racks in the big box retailers.

    We know that's there's a 90% chance we could grab a handful of used shafts from the "pull out" bin - stick some average heads on them - and with a proper fitting and structuring - have that golfer playing miles ahead of where those new (poor fitting) toys will take them.

    It sounds like you've got a good start, some simple length, loft and lie adjustment, ......

    but.......
    wait until you get your new AP_2's properly MOI matched.

    (oops..... I'm creating a monster!)

    zuko

  176. komungo says:

    I thought it would be worthwhile to give my impressions, since I have probably a higher handicap than most people on this thread (I'd estimate it at 25).

    I've been playing for 3 seasons in MN (which means 1.5 seasons for everyone else), and started to take more formal lessons this year. I started out on Big Berthas, and I had been playing with Cleveland CG4 irons (currently shafted with R TT Lite) for the last 2 years.

    A month ago, I spotted a half set (7-PW) of AP2 irons (PX 5.5 shafts) at the local golf megamart, and I took a chance and bought them. And you know what? It was probably the best thing I could have done. Even though Titleist would probably label me as "aspiring" (and that would be generous), I think the AP2 half set is perfect for what I want to do.

    What did I want to do? Improve my short game. First of all, I can pretty much tell you that my handicap is so high because of my chipping. I just could not chip with the CG4 irons. I actually was shopping for a PW replacement when I came across the AP2s. I've played a couple of rounds with them so far, and for whatever reason, these are so much better for chipping. Suddenly, I had a chance for getting up and down with these. Why? I suspect that the sole design of the AP2 was better for me, plus I wasn't afraid of chunking the chip- that's one area where a smaller head is an advantage. I just couldn't get past the visual of a big honking GI head and topline when I was trying to be delicate with a chip. Also, those half and 3/4 short iron shots suddenly became possible. The shafts felt closer to my wedges (CG11 52 and 58 degrees).

    For full shots, the head size may look a little smaller, but when I looked at them side by side with my CG4, it wasn't THAT much smaller. Besides, the true sweet spot is still probably relatively similar in size. The topline on the AP2 looked just right for me. Not too thick (the CG4 is fairly thick), but not too thin either like a blade. Again, I was able to hit consistent shots with these irons. I don't know if it was because of the head, the sole, the shaft or a better fitting, but it worked. I was even able to hit true draws and fades for the first time.

    I think there is something to the AP2 head design, with the tungsten/nickel sole doing its CG magic without increasing the sole width and ugliness in the back like GI irons. I felt it was plenty easy to get the ball up, and perhaps even the smaller head size forced me to concentrate and hit the sweet spot more regularly. The feedback is helping me too- I thought I was hitting the ball thin, but I was actually hitting the toe, and I felt it right away with the AP2.

    As for the sole, I can even cut a uniform sized divot now. Whether the lie is tight, or I'm hitting in the rough, I feel like these irons can deal with any situation.

    I liked the AP2 enough to buy the 6 iron. I'm going to wait to see how the new AP1 looks and decide if I want to build a mixed set with 4/5 irons.

    In short, don't be afraid to try these irons even if you're "aspiring" or worse. In fact, they may help you become a better golfer. I'm really psyched to see where I can go with these irons.

  177. pingnutt says:

    With a driver swing speed of 95 to 100 would the px 5.5 shaft work for me? Thanks

  178. Ernie D. says:

    I am a 5 index conflicted between the Ping I15, TaylorMade R9 and the Titleist AP2. My clubhead speed is 92, ball speed around 118. Ping ball spin at 6,500 and Titleist/TM from 4,500 to 5,500. The Titleist shaft I hit was the Project X. I liked them all.
    Any input from you experts would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks for your input.

  179. SATX Golfer says:

    With a driver swing speed of 95 to 100 would the px 5.5 shaft work for me? Thanks

    Very likely!

    I am a 5 index conflicted between the Ping I15, TaylorMade R9 and the Titleist AP2. My clubhead speed is 92, ball speed around 118. Ping ball spin at 6,500 and Titleist/TM from 4,500 to 5,500. The Titleist shaft I hit was the Project X. I liked them all.
    Any input from you experts would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks for your input.

    All three are quality golfclubs aimed at more or less the same market space. I own AP2s, so they get my vote, but i have hit the I-15s and I like them having owned I-10 Blades in the past.

    At a 5 index you can undoubtedly hit any of these clubs well. I guess I would have to look at your specific requirements to say which would be best for you because they are all quite different.

    If having the best possible performance is your short term goal and you aren't looking for any kind of longevity in your clubs, then go with the AP2s. The only real downfall I can see is these clubs are pretty soft. I took a nice gouge out of my 6-iron two weeks ago. Other than that I would say they are the best feeling irons I have ever owned, and the PX shafts just make them better.

    I alomost bought these for myself, and the I-15s have that Ping feel, both the good and bad, but they are a club you would likely own for a very long time if you get them fit correctly. If you want a set of clubs that will still be in your bag 10 or 15 years from now consider the Ping. If not,

    I don't know what to tell you about the Taylor Made irons. I have never been fond of their iron designs even though I swear by their woods. I've hit the R9s in the store but never played with them. They seem like a quality iron, if perhaps not quite yet in the same "player's club" league with the Titleists and Mizunos.

    Speaking of which, I would try hitting a Mizuno model or two as well. I would rate the better of them them on par with the Titelists! MP 62 and 68s are nice, and the MP 52s are very comparable to the Titleists in design.

    Good luck!!

  180. Tim says:

    Several single digit handicap players and the pro at my club have tried the AP2-710 (2010 model) with the NP105, Project X 6.0 and DG S300 shafts; everyone agrees that these clubs fly way too high and are very difficult to keep 'under the wind'. All agree that the AP2 is a very wonderful feeling club, but when you play in Texas, you'd better be able to hit it low.

  181. Bruce Lopucki says:

    I'm interested in purchasing a new or used set of AP2 irons(4 thru gap), 6.0 project X flighted shafts, compound grips. Naturally, I'd like to find the best price possible,but even more important is that they be true titleist irons, and the grooves of the irons be conforming for play in UsGA events(I'm a pro). Can you steer me in the right direction?

  182. Josh says:

    Bruce-

    I havent responded in awhile but when I saw your post I couldnt help but wonder. If your a pro and on a forum asking people where to get AP2's and if their grooves are conforming to USGA standards I'm extremely shocked. To hold your PGA pro license I would think you would keep up with the technology and second, know that no MAJOR manufacture like titliest makes clubs that are none conforming to usga standards as it would be bad for biz, and nobody would play them except for the average joe thinking hes going to shave strokes. I believe all AP2 irons are u-grooved as it states in this forum, and legal. I'm not sure how much the club has changed in the last 2 yrs. if at all but I picked mine up on ebay. Look around for them with the specs you want and you may need to do some customizing with the grips you want and lie angle. Hope this helps out...

  183. rob lammi says:

    currently playing mizuno mp67's just switched to DG regular high launch big difference for me currently 5.2 index purchased from a friend set of AP2's with s300's DG in them can feel the difference between the two sets has anyone out there switched from stiff in these clubs to regular and what did you think was going to do the same as the mizuno's

  184. josh says:

    rob, it shouldnt matter what head is on the end of the shaft.. get the shaft that is best matched to your swing. If its a DG Regular on a mizuno, it should be the same for the AP2's. I did notice the AP2s hit a little higher than my mp-14's but maybe ive lost it. Flex shouldnt matter though.. maybe kick point, but not flex.

  185. MARK says:

    Today I ordered:
    · Titleist AP2 (710) Forged Irons 5 thru PW
    True Temper Dynamic Gold SL S-300 SteelShafts
    (Standard Length)
    Titleist Full Cord Grips (with logo underneath)
    Standard Lie Angle

  1. [... There have been few reviews as eagerly anticipated by Sand Trap forum members and readers as this one and our upcoming review of the Titleist AP1s. Our Bag Drop article ...]

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