For a few months now we’ve been hearing about Titleist‘s new irons. Early reports were that Titleist was going to re-enter the “aspiring golfer” market as they’ve tended to call it, as well as to overhaul their low-handicap level irons.
We’ve managed to track down a bit more information, and it appears that the early rumors were correct. Titleist plans to launch four new iron sets in 2008. And while you may still be able to claim that the forged musclebacks we’re about to share with you are evolutionary, the cavity-back irons represent a distinct new beginning in iron design at Titleist.
The new musclebacks are named the ZB and the ZM, while the cavity-back models are named the “AP” for Advanced Performance and come in two models: the AP1 and the AP2. The latter of these represent the “new beginning” and are “multi-material, dual cavity designs.”
Let’s have a closer look at Titleist’s iron lineup for 2008.
Engineering & Technology
Titleist representatives say that the irons were “designed with a focus on feel and performance.” The Titleist market has long consisted of players ranging from Tour players to low-handicap golfers, as well as golfers who aspire to be good and demand the solid feel and clean aesthetics for which Titleist is known.
Titleist sought to position these four new models to satisfy everyone along that curve: its demanding Tour players and the 15-handicapper who is dead-set on improving and doesn’t want to play with clunky über-game-improvement shovels.
One of the key areas of focus for Titleist with these irons was ball speed. Obviously, the faster a ball travels the further it’s likely to go, and Titleist noticed that the average ball speed gaps between player groups has widened over the years. Their research says that the average driver ball speed of a PGA Tour player is 165+ MPH, while the average of a 5-9 handicap player is 145 MPH. That’s a 20+ MPH difference, and it continues on through every club in the set.
As a result, Titleist designed these irons to focus on not only the traditional feel and performance but also to optimize launch conditions and ball flight based on the targeted players ball speed range.
AP Iron Line
To achieve the ball speed and launch conditions, the AP1 and AP2 incorporate multi-material construction and a dual cavity. The back sole is comprised of a tungsten nickel alloy intended to optimize launch conditions and for a larger range of swing speeds. The line that separates the tungsten nickel alloy from the rest of the club is visible, and Titleist representatives say that they were able to maintain the “traditional soft yet solid ‘Titleist feel'” that players have come to expect from Titleist irons.
The company line is that “the new AP family is the most technologically advanced irons that Titleist has ever produced.” They both feature a “multi-material construction and dual cavity design that combine to provide unmatched feel, forgiveness and playability in a Titleist iron.”
The AP irons are built using four different materials: a steel body, a tungsten nickel steel box, a central support bar with an elastomer cushion, and an aluminum cavity plate. The AP1 iron body is cast from 431 stainless steel while the AP2 is forged with 1020 mild carbon steel.
With the AP1 irons, Titleist seems to be shooting for the aspiring golfer who may not think they have the game to be playing with their clubs. By using the dual-cavity and multi-material approach, Titleist is providing “contemporary cast irons providing looks, feel, shot control, and higher flight with forgiveness.”
Let’s take a look at each of the AP irons in more detail.
AP1 Technology
- Dual Cavity, Multi-Material Design: Upper and lower cavities optimize weight distribution to the perimeter, while the precise cast 431 stainless steel body with high density tungsten nickel box provide both feel, forgiveness and performance. Elastomer cushion on central support bar dampens vibration for outstanding feel.
- Tungsten Nickel Box: High density material located in the back and sole encloses the lower cavity to locate weight low and deep for performance while providing structural rigidity and low frequency vibration dampening for unmatched feel.
- Thin Face: Distributes additional weight low and deep to help improve the weight distribution and performance.
- Central Cross Member with Elastomer Cushion: Cross member provides rigidity behind the impact area for solid feel. Soft elastomer cushion dampens face vibration for outstanding overall feel.
- Optimal CG Location: Dual cavity, multi-material, thin face design optimizes the Center of Gravity (CG) location in the center, low and deep for optimal launch, increased ball speed, higher launch and consistent spin performance across the hitting area.
- Confidence Inspiring Appearance: Contemporary, confidence inspiring set-up appearance features a traditional profile with soft blends, modern proportions and a semi-underslung hosel junction.
- Metallic Cavity Plate: Attractive cavity plate and back graphics with multiple elevations and textures for great shelf and bag appeal.
- High Performance Sole: High performance sole with width, camber and bounce specs designed to deliver playability from a variety of lies and turf conditions without excessive bounce or dig.
- Dual Hosel Lengths: Shorter hosel in long irons helps bias weight low for improved launch.
- Progressive Offset: Blade length is the same throughout the set with enhanced progressive offset.
- Lofts: Two degrees stronger versus AP2.
The AP1 irons will come with the True Temper Dynamic Gold High Launch Stock Shaft which is a mid-weight shaft with a lower kick point. If graphite is more your flavor, the Aldila VS Proto-T 75 made exclusively for Titleist is the stock shaft and both come standard with the Titleist Tour Velvet Rubber made by Golf Pride.
The AP1 irons will be available in both right and left hand beginning March 15, 2008, with a suggested retail price of $100 per club/steel and $125 per club/graphite. Custom options with shafts, grips, length and lie angle are available through Titleist Custom.
AP1 Iron Specs
Iron Loft Lie Offset Bounce Length ---- ---- --- ------ ------ ------ 3 20° 60° 0.245" 1° 39.00" 4 23° 61° 0.220" 1° 38.50" 5 26° 62° 0.195" 2° 38.00" 6 29° 62.5° 0.170" 2° 37.50" 7 33° 63° 0.145" 3° 37.00" 8 37° 63.5° 0.125" 4° 36.50" 9 41° 64° 0.110" 5° 36.00" P 45° 64° 0.105" 6° 35.75" W 50° 64° 0.100" 7° 35.50"
AP2 Irons
The Titleist AP2 Irons are like the AP1 irons in the fact they are also multi-material constructed and dual cavity, but the resemblance ends there. The AP2s use “chrome-plated technical forging for the skilled, single digit golfer who wants contemporary iron technology with traditional solid feel, looks and shot control.” The details are:
- Dual Cavity, Multi-Material Design: Upper and lower cavities optimize weight distribution to the perimeter, while the precise forged steel body with high density tungsten nickel box provide feel, forgiveness and performance. Elastomer cushion on central support bar dampens vibration for outstanding feel.
- Tungsten Nickel Box: High density material located in the back and sole encloses the lower cavity to locate weight low and deep for performance while providing structural rigidity and low frequency vibration dampening for unmatched feel.
- Thin Face: Distributes additional weight low and deep to help improve the weight distribution and performance.
- Central Cross Member with Elastomer Cushion: Cross member provides rigidity behind the impact area for solid feel. Soft elastomer cushion dampens face vibration for outstanding overall feel.
- Optimal CG Location: Dual cavity, multi-material, thin face design optimizes the Center of Gravity (CG) location in the center, low and deep for optimal launch, increased ball speed, higher launch and consistent spin performance across the hitting area.
- Confidence Inspiring Appearance: Contemporary, confidence inspiring set-up appearance features a traditional profile with soft blends, modern proportions and a semi-underslung hosel junction.
- Metallic Cavity Plate: Attractive cavity plate and back graphics with multiple elevations and textures for great shelf and bag appeal.
- High Performance Sole: High performance sole width and bounce with relieved trailing edge for playability and shot making.
- Dual Hosel Lengths: Shorter hosel in long irons helps bias weight low for improved launch. Longer hosel in mid and short irons helps manage flight.
The AP2 irons with come standard with the Precision Project X Stock Shaft which provides for a “medium launch and outstanding spin control” as well as the Titleist Tour Velvet Rubber made by Golf Pride.
The AP2 irons will be available in both right and left hand beginning March 15, 2008, and carry a suggested retail price of $142 per club/steel and $167 per club/graphite. Custom options with shafts, grips, length and lie angle are available through Titleist Custom.
AP2 Iron Specs
Iron Loft Lie Offset Bounce Length ---- ---- --- ------ ------ ------ 3 22° 60° 0.160" 0° 39.00" 4 25° 61° 0.145" 1° 38.50" 5 28° 62° 0.130" 3° 38.00" 6 31° 62.5° 0.120" 4° 37.50" 7 35° 63° 0.110" 5° 37.00" 8 39° 63.5° 0.100" 6° 36.50" 9 43° 64° 0.090" 7° 36.00" P 47° 64° 0.085" 8° 35.75" W 51° 64° 0.080" 8° 35.50"
ZB and ZM Irons
Well, if the AP line doesn’t get you going, perhaps the ZB or ZM irons will. Two years ago, Titleist introduced us to the “Z-Muscle” on the backs of their 696.MB irons. With the ZB and the ZM, they’ve taken the “Z” idea to the next level. Originally intended to help move weight from the heel to the toe, Titleist says of the improved “Z” that it continues to “move weight from the heel to toe, centering the CG for solid feel, consistent ball speed, launch and spin.” I must say, they are mighty fine looking iron.
Titleist was late getting into the “blended” or “combo” irons game when it came out with the 735.CM irons – cavity-back long irons and muscle-back short irons. The irons were reviewed quite favorably and did well, but a lot of customers created their own blended or combo sets from the 695.CB and 695.MB irons.
The ZB irons seek to eliminate the need to manually blend a set of irons, while the ZM uphold the more traditional “all muscle” method of design for the purists (and good ballstrikers) among us.
ZB Irons
- High performance, blended cavity-to-muscle back iron, forged with 1025 carbon steel and bright chrome plating for traditional feel, superior looks and shot control for the competitive and highly skilled golfer.
- Blended Set: Cavity back long irons (2-4) for playability, partial cavity mid irons (5-7) blending to muscle back short irons (8-P) for shot control. The ZB irons feature a progressive blade length with the long irons slightly bigger than the short.
- Z Back Design: A contemporary back design locates the center of gravity in the center of the face by precisely distributing weight from the heel into the toe producing traditional solid feel.
- Tour Validated Flight: Traditional blade performance with Tour standard loft specifications for Tour validated ball flight, shot and trajectory control and workability.
- Tour Preferred Shape and Offset: Traditional profile with slightly more progressive offset than the ZM Forged for a preferred set-up appearance.
- High Performance Sole: Traditional narrow sole for reduced skip in firm conditions and appropriate bounce to reduce digging. ZB sole is slighter wider with moderate bounce in the 2-7 versus the ZM.
- Dual Hosel Lengths: Shorter hosel in long irons helps bias weight low for improved launch. Longer hosel in mid and short irons helps manage flight.
The ZB irons will come standard with Dynamic Gold Steel Stock Shaft as well as the Titleist Tour Velvet Rubber made by Golf Pride and will be available in both right and left hand beginning March 15, 2008, with a suggested retail price of $125 per club/steel and $150 per club/graphite. Custom options with shafts, grips, length and lie angle are available through Titleist Custom.
ZB Iron Specs
Iron Loft Lie Offset Bounce Length ---- ---- --- ------ ------ ------ 2 18° 60° 0.150" 0° 39.50" 3 21° 60° 0.140" 1° 39.00" 4 24° 61° 0.130" 2° 38.50" 5 27° 62° 0.120" 3° 38.00" 6 31° 62.5° 0.110" 4° 37.50" 7 35° 63° 0.100" 5° 37.00" 8 39° 63.5° 0.090" 6° 36.50" 9 43° 64° 0.080" 7° 36.00" P 47° 64° 0.075" 8° 35.75"
ZM Irons
The other offering in the Z line is the ZM, a muscle-back forged iron. Made of 1025 carbon steel and “bright chrome plating for traditional feel, superior looks, and shot control for the competitive and highly skilled golfer,” the ZM features a compact size head with constant blade length. Even though I may never reach the level of competency to put these in my bag, I must say these are some snazzy looking blades.
- Contemporary back design locates the center of gravity in the center of the face by precisely distributing weight from the heel into the toe producing traditional solid feel.
- Tour Validated Flight: Traditional blade performance with Tour standard loft specifications for Tour validated ball flight, shot and trajectory control and workability.
- Tour Preferred Shape and Offset: Traditional profile with minimal progressive offset for a preferred set up appearance.
- High Performance Sole: Traditional narrow sole for reduced skip in firm conditions and appropriate bounce to reduce digging. Slightly narrower than the ZB with 1 degree more bounce in long irons.
- Dual Hosel Lengths: Shorter hosel in long irons helps bias weight low for improved launch. Longer hosel in mid and short irons helps manage flight.
The ZM irons will come standard with the Dynamic Gold Steel Stock Shaft as well as the Titleist Tour Velvet Rubber made by Golf Pride and will be available in both right and left hand beginning March 15, 2008, with a suggested retail price of $125 per club/steel and $150 per club/graphite. Custom options with shafts, grips, length and lie angle are available through Titleist Custom.
ZM Iron Specs
Iron Loft Lie Offset Bounce Length ---- ---- --- ------ ------ ------ 3 21° 60° 0.125" 2° 39.00" 4 24° 61° 0.120" 3° 38.50" 5 27° 62° 0.115" 4° 38.00" 6 31° 62.5° 0.110" 4.5° 37.50" 7 35° 63° 0.100" 5° 37.00" 8 39° 63.5° 0.090" 6° 36.50" 9 43° 64° 0.080" 7° 36.00" P 47° 64° 0.075" 8° 35.75"
Final Thoughts
Titleist has come out with nifty technology in their AP line in order to go after the “aspiring golfer” market who may have had limited success with their irons in the past. I must say that they take a little bit getting use to as they look quite different from past Titleist offerings.
Having said that, I am quite eager to test out the ZB combo-set when they arrive in March (how did Titleist know my birthday was coming up!) as they look quite nice. Oh, I’ll pick up the ZM just to take a peek and I might even take a swing or two but I know my limitations and shortcomings as a golfer and those would eat me for lunch.
Our Editor-in-Chief will be attending the PGA Merchandise Show this week and a Titleist sales meeting on Sunday. Expect a full report towards the end of next week, including some hands-on feedback.
I’m a bit surprised here…Titleist has ALWAYS, in my mind, been synonymous with traditional, classic looking clubs, but irons specifically. I see, really all these irons as, at minimum, on the edge of the design fringe – at least the back. Did they stay with tradition as far as looks when at address? Good read.. thanks.
As someone who who was in the market for the 775s, my first impression is YUCK! I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but IMHO these clubs don’t compare to the current line up (in looks only). Maybe they will look different in person…..just my $0.02
I’ll have a full report next week, but I expect you won’t see any of the back at address. And personally, I like the look of the ZB and the ZM. The AP irons aren’t intended for me, and I’ve never really liked the look of any game-improvement irons. They’re a class of clubs you grow to love based on performance.
Are the blades forged in China or Japan? Most everything from Titleist these days seems to be made and assembled in China. Would love to see soft Japanese frogings in their lineup.
Initial reports I’ve heard elsewhere is that the AP2 is the preferred choice of Titleist staff players based on performance. Personally, I think they’re all ugly and it’s really a shame that the OEM’s are getting so over the top with their designs. I’m glad I help on to my Lt2’s, between those and the MP57’s, I should be able to maintain a normal look in my bag for a few years.
The first of the Titleist irons I owned were 690cb’s, I currently play with 695mb’s along with two rescues however as much as I love my 695mb’s I would really consider a set of Z combos no matter how well we play we are always looking for oppurtunities to improve and this may be the current answer.
It used to be you could count a Titleist club to look classy and play well. If I wanted to put something this ugly in play, I’d buy a Ping. The performance had better be lights out – otherwise I see a quick transition to the “club archive” on titleist.com
Does anyone know if there might be an all cavity back set in the Z series? ZC????
Or are the people that want those meant to get the AP2?
I think ZC at $125 per club would be a better option than the AP2 at $142 per club.
Are you listening Titleist?
I am a 9 handicap golfer currently playing with the 735’s, I want to update but cannot decide between the AP2 irons or the ZB irons, has anybody got any information that might help me make up my mind.
In my mind, you can’t beat a set of 704’s..In fact, I just found a brand new set on ebay and they’ll be in my bag for another three years…honestly, it will take a miracle for me to go to something this ugly…
Like the look of ZB and Zm but API’s are too wide at the top not the classic looking titleists
Anyone know when they are coming out?
The topline on the 775s isn’t exactly super-thin either.
I’ll give you a hint: the answer appears four or five times in the article.
I don’t really like the look of the AP1 from the picture, maybe it is the red that throws me, but the ap2 doesn’t look to bad to me. I also think that just seeing one club close up blows it out of proportion a bit. for me, it will also depend on how it looks at address, I don’t think Titleist will let it be to over the top.
The top is a bit beefy but I think most players who are looking at these clubs (people looking for an excellent iron with some forgiveness) won’t mind. I include myself in that category. I plan on giving the AP2 a try when they come out, then if I like them I will have to figure out how to pay for them 🙁 .
If you really want a thinner top line, then go for the Z line. I think it is wonderful that Titleist is making irons that I can play, but is also making the classics for you real sticks out there.
Alright, I think I have used up my 3000 word quota….
I am excited about the release of the new Titleist Irons. I am a 1 handicap and have used Titleist equipment since becoming a low-handicapper. I cant wait to get the ZM irons in my bag!
For all those people out there who are undecided, upset, or disgusted with the look of the new irons, I would recommend that you hit them first before judging. Titleist is the number club on tour for a reason, better golfers like them. If you are looking for game improvement irons, try the AP1 and if you still need help, go pick up some G10s or Big Bertha 2008s. Other companys claim to have the number 1 clubs, just not on tour, maybe on the municipal courses and fancy country clubs.
I think the new look is bold for Titleist and they wouldnt put something out that different if they didnt believe in it. They are not struggling to stay in business, with the representation they get from better golfers, they are thriving, they just want to make better clubs for everyone.
😮
My background – 4 index, 70 rounds per year, Northeast player. Current irons MP-30s and prior to that the Titleist blades for years.
Went to my club maker last Friday to order new MP-57 as I walked in, the Titleist Rep was walking out. He did a u-turn and brought the AP2 demo 5 iron into the shop. I tested the AP2 right out of the reps van and hit it against the MP-57 on the computer.
All computer readings – spin, launch, speed, etc…were nearly identical. I was overtook by the feel of the AP2 on off center hits and in a moment of golf histeria (long winter here boys) and the thought of having the first AP2s in the area I ordered the irons. Also, it is nice to know that 8-10 pros had them this weekend at Torrey.
I just called my club man and went back and ordered the MP-57. Let me say this about the AP2s, they are not as Adam’s “IDEA” looking as they appear in print and are quite attractive…..”player’s club” looking at address with a clean topline (a touch thick, but not crazy PING like) and minimal offset. They do feel great and are as soft as butter.
However, I went back to the MP-57 becuase they feel as soft and are as forgiving (I hope) as the AP2 without the 4 different types compsite “stuff” added to it…which tells me something about the Mizuno’s. Besides I payed the best golf of my life with the MP-30s…why change now I guess. I will let you know if my decision was a bad one.
Last january marked my return to golf after more than 20 years. I used to be a 10 handicap in high-school. My equipment was very old so I demoed a bunch of clubs However, even though I playing to a 23 handicap I ended up with the 695mb. You can call me crazy. Why did I do that? 2 reasons. Because the feeling you get when hit correctly is unsurpassed, and because they are so unforgiving that they give you immediate feedback on what you did wrong. They instruct you on how to become a better player. Sorry, but that’s my idea of a game improvement iron. What’s been the result? I’m currently playing to a 7.3 handicap and have already shot couple of rounds in the high 70’s. I am seriously considering a set of ZM’s but with a X-100 shafts. I borrowed my local golf pro’s 695mb set with X-100 shafts and I was hitting more accurately, consistently, and with more distance. Funny how people always told me to get away from those. My point is that if you like the club don’t underestimate yourself and give them a try. At first it might be hard, but little by little you are hitting better and better. Those good shots are so rewarding that you get addicted and want more. I just can play with something that forgives my mistakes. Anyway… everybody is different and some have weird ways of getting better. I would love to see a review of the ZM’s. Thanks for reading my opinion.
I am wondering why you would want to update your’s 735’s? They’re IMHO the best titleist irons of the last years, and they can take you well below hcp 9.
They’re weight, feel and balance are amazing (and the looks.. whooaaa!). Before these I thought the 762DCI we’re the best feeling irons titleist had developed for the mid-low handicapper.
If it’s a matter of lust for new irons, and you really want to update the look on your bag I guess that the rule of thumb would be:
If you prefer the feel of your 735’s 3 to 7 irons head for the AP2.
If the 735’s 8,9 and P iron make you lift your pint and honor them at the 19th, then head for the ZB.
No way I’m going to trade the 735’s classic look (and feel) for either of them. They’re, for me, the best of two worlds.
Just my 2 cents… 😎
I find it strange that the staff players are using the AP2’s and not the ZM’s or at least the ZB’s, but it did seem to me that Adam Scott was indeed using the AP2’s this past weekend at the Qatar tournie, which he won, with some incredible play. If a great player like him has switched from 695MB’s to these cavity backs, I guess ALL of us should stay away from MB’s as well. I might have mis-identified the clubs he was using though. So I guess I’ll have to wait and see.
Stuart: You are correct – Adam Scott did use the AP2’s to win in Qatar. The last issue of Golf World had a “what’s in the bag” thingie for Scott….
Just wondering, im a 7 handicap and have been playing the 690cb’s for several years now, im looking for a new set of titleist irons. I looked at the 775cb and the 755, now i see these new ones are coming out. My biggest swing problem is that i get caught with my hands behind my hips and it produces a weak push slice. Im working on fixing it but i noticed that the 775.cb have an offset that i thought would help. Any suggestions of those who have hit both on which would be better. Im worried that the 775cbs are not for me on my quest to lower my handicap. I have a 101mph swing speed with a driver and tend to hit the ball very high with every and any club. Help?
Having looked at the new Zm forged irons I think that I prefer the 695mb irons more. The 695’s were less tacky unlike the Zm’s with the ‘Z’ across the back. However I think that the Ap models look great and I hope to be adding them to my bag in the future.
I agree with many of the comments already posted – the look of these clubs is off. Titleist, like Mizuno, had a certain look, a certain panache – I knew if I saw Titleist in a player’s bag, that meant he could play.
Why would a high-handicapper switch from what s/he is playing, be it Callaway, Taylormade, etc, to these? I seriously doubt that a high-handicapper will get much improvement, if s/he is already playing a game improvement club.
If Titleist had made clubs for the high-handicapper that looked classy (read blade-like), I would have looked at them. Titleist should have treated the high-handicapper (at least in club appearance) as if they are a low handicapper.
Titleist missed the boat on this redesign.
Have you seen the 755s or the 775s? They’ve added colors and things in recent years too. The ZBs and the ZMs aren’t very different at all, and the AP1 and AP2 are a pretty normal progression from the 775/755s.
The AP1 is intended for 9-15 handicappers. Golfers may would want to switch because the feel and forgiveness of these clubs is pretty incredible. You’ve not hit these clubs yet… I have.
Blade-like clubs are for low handicappers. You simply can’t find a club that’s “blade-like” for a mid-handicapper. They don’t exist – they’ve all got some form of help, and help means cavities, moving weight around, etc.
I think that’s an impossibility. A muscleback will never be very forgiving.
Check back Saturday for my field test on all these clubs, but specifically for my feedback and opinion on the AP1 and AP2.
I’m new to Titleist Equipment. I decided to pay out the extra bucks and try a Scotty Cameron and D2 driver and didn’t know it would make the difference it has. Just the way it’s turned out for me… I don’t know if I could go back to anything else. I’m now ready to upgrade my irons.. currently hit the mp 32 and without a doubt want to try some titleist irons (mistake?). These new irons are tempting me like mad.. should I go for the ZM or the ap 2? I don’t like the zb line.. the inconsistency of the line doesn’t fit me… just the particular way I am.. lame I know. Anyone hit the MP 32 and hit Titleist now? ZM or ap2? ZM or ap2? Hoping for some encouragement for the ZM…s:)
Erik, your review of the 695MBs was excellent. In fact, it led me to demo them and eventually purchase a set of 695MB. I am extremely happy with them, thank you.
On your last post you said that we should;
“Check back Saturday for my field test on all these clubs, but specifically for my feedback and opinion on the AP1 and AP2.”
Does that mean that we are going to have to wait a little longer for your “full” feedback and opinion on the ZB and ZM clubs? I am most interested on their feel and performance in comparison to the 695MB’s. I thank you in advance for your response.
It means that the primary focus of the “field test” was on the AP1 and AP2. The ZB and ZM are not as ground-shakingly different as the AP models – they’re an evolutionary step with minor performance/feel tweaks.
If you’re happy with your 695s, you may want to resist the urge to upgrade to the ZB/ZM just for the sake of upgrading. However, you may be surprised and switch to the AP2.
From the field test (URL will not work until tomorrow), here’s what I said about the ZB/ZM:
“I ended last year with a 2.7 handicap, so I gravitated towards the ZM and ZB. The lines are clean, the tops of the clubs relatively thin, and the “Z” cut into the back is simple and attractive. The clubs perform as you would expect: quite similarly to the 695.MB and 695.CB irons. Any subtle differences between the current models and the previous models is tough to discern, so for now I’ll simply believe that Titleist has tweaked the irons a bit to improve feel and performance.”
Titleist is making a big push this year with the AP irons, and for good reason. They expect about half of their sales to be of the AP1, and about 35% to be AP2. The other 15% will be the ZB/ZM. They may have the AP numbers flipped, but I think they can do just that – the AP2 is a pretty remarkable club to hit. It’s just a teeny bit thicker than I’d normally like, but the feel and performance blow every other “mid-handicapper” type club I’ve ever played out of the water.
Again, the simple fact that a long-time muscleback guy like Adam Scott switched says a lot. The excitement I have at doing a full review of these clubs says a lot too (on a completely different scale, admittedly :-D).
over 90% of the clubs made in the world today are made in either japan, taiwan or korea. It’s not just titleist clubs that are made over seas.
Erik,
Thanks for your reply to some of my points. My take-home message is that for most high-handicappers (HH), there would be no benefit to moving from the game-improvement clubs s/he has to Titleist – In other words, I don’t think Titleist’s new game-improvement clubs will be that much better than what is already out there, warranting a move.
To your point, I do not like the look of the 755 as much as other Titleist irons because of the color. But compared to Titleist’s new irons, the 755 are subdued.
You are correct in that I have not hit the AP1s. If they have incredible forgiveness and feel, they may warrant a move by some HHs. But will the AP1s be that much better than Cleveland, Callaway, Taylormade, etc?
I agree with you that “Blade-like clubs are for low handicappers. You simply can’t find a club that’s “blade-like” for a mid-handicapper. They don’t exist – they’ve all got some form of help, and help means cavities, moving weight around, etc.â€Â
I could envision a club without the lines, the silly Z, and the colors, that would still be a game-improvement club, but still have some modicum of style. Or even a club with a false back hiding all the game-improvement features, giving it the look of a blade, but the playability of a cavity back.
I enjoy your articles here at the Sand Trap and look forward to reading your Titleist irons review.
I’m not sure where you got that from. Our full review of the AP1 will come in March or April, and my field test appears tomorrow. The AP1 is a tremendous club.
If you’re a 27 handicap, frankly, it doesn’t matter much what you play. But if you’re an 18, the AP1 is probably going to be a pretty sweet set.
If you want to make up your mind before-hand, go ahead, but I think you’ll be missing out.
One point missed is that the new ZM has less offset than the 695 mb. I own the 695 mb and they did have more offset than the mizuno blades. As a player who sometimes hooks the ball it makes a difference. I just ordered the ZM’s with the same specs and the offset has been reduced for 2008
I’ve been playing Titleist DCI 962Bs for almost 10 years now. It would take a lot for me to make a move into a new set of irons. However, the AP2s are definitely looking like a possibility. Staying traditional is something Titleist has always done well – that said, technology is your friend these days on the golf course.
give em a shot and take it red
I get many chuckles when I see mid or even low handicappers speaking affectionately of the feel of classic blades and how they can’t stand the new stuff. I’m a 4.3 index and love my blades as much as the next guy. I’ve got some Titleist 680s, Tour Models, Tour Model Custom Grind and a new set of Hogan Apex 2006s (mostly to save for posterity because they are gorgeous). But let’s get real guys. The majority of the best players in the world have gone away from blades for an obvious reason: they don’t perform as well. Not with their (grooved) swings, not with our less than grooved swings. I still play with the more demanding sets from time to time just for variety and fun, and there is merit, I think, to practicing with them because they don’t correct your flaws. But Golf Digest won’t even rate them for its Hot List anymore because it makes no sense. Whatever you think of the appearance of the AP2 (I think it looks fine), hit it before judging. And for those who think Titleist is synonymous with low-handicap clubs only, visit their club archive. Lots of strange looking stuff in there. Cherish your old blades, preserve them for posterity, take ’em out for a spin on the odd Sunday, but don’t play them and tell me they work better than clubs designed for our level of accomplishment. If that were true, we’d all still be using Bullseye putters.
While that may be true, I personally find it much more difficult to stay consistent with clubs that don’t offer a significant level of feedback, which only amps up my inconsistency.
The pros practice and swing frequently enough that they could consistently find the center of any clubface. My swing, on the other hand, deteriorates the longer I play “game improvement” or “super-forgiving” clubs that cut down on feedback. They may offer a short-term (as in one round) improvement in scoring, but the benefit quickly wears off.
Golf Digest doesn’t rate them because only 5% of golfers are low-handicappers, so what’s the point? That doesn’t mean that those low-handicappers have to ignore the benefits.
OK…Now I’m going to be dreaming of having a set of Titleist ZM’s until I hit the lottery. Around here, you cant even find a set to look at, hold, swing…admire! 🙁
Erik, I think we are saying the same thing with respect to Golf Digest. There are few low handicappers and even fewer who choose to play with blades. The term “player’s club” has evolved, to say the least, and now it seems to encompass clubs that one would never have imagined in the category a decade ago. Then again, there’s not a great degree of difference from one standard muscleback to another, so what would the magazine be writing about year after year? (Of course, a lot of that is about feeding their advertisers, but that’s another story.)
I do understand about feedback, but seems to me it should apply mostly to practice sessions, where making subtle adjustments amid the repetition of ball after ball has a real impact. Of course the greatest feedback of all is the flight of the ball. A good instructor does not know or care what it felt like for you when you hit the ball. He or she knows all they need to know from watching the ball. It never lies. I think it’s interesting when good players talk about how classic blades allow them to work the ball. The ultimate objective is to hit the ball high and straight. Unless you play amid fierce winds, you can never go wrong.
The new drivers are oriented not toward feel or workability but MOI. Ditto new putterrs. And the tour guys are taking advantage. The new balls are longer and straighter. Why do we, as the fraternity of reasonably capable players, concern ourselves constantly with “working” the ball. I want to hit it high and straight. I don’t play for tucked pins unless I’ve got a short iron in my hand. Yes, we sometimes have to hit trouble shots, but you can do that with any modern club oriented toward better players. Did you hear Nick Price talking about how he wouldn’t replace his 2-iron with a hybrid because he could not work the ball with the hybrid? What a dolt. Maybe this is why he can’t win a thing on the senior circuit when guys who couldn’t carry his bag 20 years ago burn it up. Ditch the 2-iron. Save the blades for practice and bring on those AP 2s. Balata is dead. The sweeping draws and flirty little cuts of yore have gone the way of the carburetor. I hit my Callaway X-forged a little straighter, farther and more consistently than my 680s. It’s not always as much fun, but I’ll take 76 over 78, or 79 over 82.
Sorry, but I disagree here, and I know my own game well enough to disagree confidently. I also try to avoid making sweeping generalizations about what would be better.
If musclebacks had no purpose or utility, they wouldn’t be made.
That’s flat out incorrect and incredibly short-sighted. The ultimate objective is to hit the ball in the hole in the fewest strokes, and working the ball can help you do that.
The #1 player in the world works the ball more than anyone else on the PGA Tour. Think there might be something to that? 😛
Not all of them, no.
Then have at it and leave the rest of us to play the game we enjoy the way we enjoy it most.
Either way, this isn’t a discussion for this portion of the site. Hop into the forum where this discussion’s been had what seems like several hundred times already.
Fair enough. Sorry for pushing the discussion into inappropriate areas. I’m looking forward to hitting the new AP2s and frankly am encouraged that Titleist is showing more interest in technology, which hasn’t been their strong suit. I’m also wondering how many of their staff players will adopt these and what this means for their blades. Very few of their staff players use the 695MBs (seem to prefer the 680s or 670s). It seems to be a perfectly decent blade to me, but can you see the day when Titleist drops blades altogether? As their tour players move to more forgiving clubs, will there be enough of a reason for Titleist to promote the blades or keep up the production line? That would be a sad day.
Some of you might find this interesting. I did an analysis of what the Titleist tour players (on Titleist.com) are currently using and here are the results.
The most popular irons are the 695MB with 21.54%. Surprisingly, the newly introduced AP2’s are currently being used by 16.92% of players. The 670, 695CB & 755 each represented a 10.77% of the total. 3.08% and 1.54% of players has adopted the ZM and ZB respectively.
But wait; before you jump to any conclusions consider this. 44.62% of all irons being used are full type blades. 26.15% are of the 695CB type club. Those two types represent 70.77% of the total. The remaining 29.23% is comprised of 755’s with 10.77%, AP2’s with 16.92% and an AP1 with 1.54%.
Therefore, 70.77% of Titleist top players do not use game improvement (forgiving) irons. It should be noted that some of the younger players use old model blades. Nevertheless, it is impressive that the AP2 has been adopted so fast and by as many players. Even though I play with 695MB’s, and are extremely happy with them, I think that the AP2’s deserve a try. However, in my case, and that is personal preference, I don’t think that I will be moving away from blades anytime soon.
I thought this was interesting and decided to look again at the Titleist website. I think the math here is a bit off. Here are the raw numbers. The most popular staff club is not the 695MB but the new AP2, which has been adopted by 15 of the 66 players listed, as opposed to 12 using the 695MB. One, Billy Mayfair, is using the AP1. Of those 66, I count 37 who use cavity back clubs (counting the 735s as CBs). You can make your own judgment as to whether any of Titleist’s clubs fall into the game improvement category, and if so how much. More players, 13, use blades older than the 695s, which makes me wonder about the future of that club or its Z replacements, which so few have adopted.
I did some checking of my own. I too counted 66 players. It broke down for me as follows:
In other words, my numbers are much closer to MikeT’s than Joaquin’s. I added things in differently, as you can see, grouping clubs with a similar heritage (the 704 and the 755, the 690 and 695 series and their corresponding ZB and ZM, the 660/670/680 series).
I will correct myself. I did check MikeT and Erik’s numbers and they are both correct. But so was I. We all did the math correctly Our discrepancies were due to different data from our source. Titleist did update their site. Please note that my comments were posted before 7:00am and MikeT’s was posted at 8:03pm of the same day. A difference of a full working day. Sites are updated everyday.
The important thing here is that the AP2’s have been adopted by a considerable number of players. It would be interesting to see what happens in a few months time. Will more players switch to AP2’s sending a clear message or will some return to what was good and tested. Only time will tell. Anyway, the success of the club cannot be denied and Titliest seems to have a sure winner.
Every club has its target player, and we all have our personal preferences. What is wrong for you might be good for me and vise versa. My suggestion is use whatever works for you and enjoy the game. In the end its what matters most.
These irons look sweet and I commend Titleist on their technological advances.
Ditto Hburg….I can’t wait for the new AP style. 😛 Golfsmith told me today that I have to wait until the end of the month to get them. I have to order thru Golfsmith becuase my family gave me a bunch of gift certificate there…
I can’t wait for the new irons and I think they look fantastic! ❗ Yippee!
I’m a 17 handicap — usually someone who wouldn’t be qualified to partake in this discussion.
But I am intrigued by the AP1. I’ve maintained the 17 handicap playing 822OS’ and was considering buying a new set of irons this spring. After the 822’s I really didn’t think Titleist made anything for someone with my (lack of) skill. I preferred staying with Acushnet so I was considering Cobra FP’s or (unfortunately) S9’s. So the question is — are the AP1’s appropriate for me or should I stay with a typical “game improvement” club?
I have been playing a set of DCI’s for about 11 years. I love them, I have never had the slightest notion of playing anything else. I was flipping threw a “Golf Diegest” Mag. Saw the new AP2 Irons…….”I WANT” 😈 😯
Agreed.
I don’t even posess a handicap yet – but since I’ve added a Titleist 695.MB 5, 6 and 8-iron into my bag alongside the shovel-like Mizuno MX-19s, my scores are also tumbling: I’ve only been playing 8 months and I’m hitting the late 80s already. This is because I practice a lot. I try to swing correctly.
It’s gotten to the point where my unneccesary expenditure-of-energy when attempting to hit an iron has been replaced by technique. Nice and easy.
That’s directly down to using muscle-back irons.
I try to use those three 695.MBs as much as possible now – these are also the primary clubs I use at the driving range.
I also agree with Erik J. Barzeskis’s argument to the merits of playing with and getting better with playing blades too. Too many people are looking for shortcuts in golf and constantly use the ‘if the pros don’t use them, why should you’ excuse.
Well, the same argument can be used to drivers: I’m sure a large percentage of weekend players can’t even carry 250 yards and would be better suited to tee-ing off with a 3-wood and keeping the ball in play….but you see everyone, week-after-week, lining up, ready with their 460cc drivers, walloping away and almost invariably hooking, slicing or not getting the distance.
I completely agree with RichF. I will add something though. Its funny how before playing a round 99% of players go to the range and practice the driver. Then about one third of those golfers would wonder to the putting green, put about five to ten times at the most, and then maybe, maybe chip five to ten additional balls. Guys, about two thirds to 75% of strokes (depending on the player) will take place within 100 yards of the cup.
I am not saying this to brag (besides none of you know who I am). This is the best kept non secret in golf. Everybody knows its true yet don’t do anything about it. in the last two months I’ve dropped from an 8 to a 6 handicap by spending 90% of the time improving my short game. In fact my long game has also improved because I am focusing more on precision instead of brute force. That, combined with my non forgiving blades has, and still is making me a better player.
Just food for thought.
😐 Ho-hum on the new design. I’ve played everything Titleist as a 62-year old 3.0 and former PGA player. I love my 695MB via e-bay bargain and wanted to get new custom setup ZM irons, but the look – YUCK! Wouldn’t want it in the bag with my D2 and 906/585 setup. Take a look at Mizuno MP-32 or Cleveland CG irons for beauty and performance. Come on guys at Titleist, let’s get sexy if you want to keep us performance dudes!
i’m around a 16 handicap, 😥 but ball striking is the strongest part of my game as is driving.
i have been playing for around 1 and a half years now, and have dropped around 20 strokes from when i started playing.
the reason my handicap is that high is purely down to short game. 😆 (and i will be working on that)
i was considering the ap2 irons and was just wondering how forgiving they are?
i’m looking for something like a semi-blade as i have been testing out friends irons and am producing better shots with them.
i am 15 yrs old and am looking to be down to a 10 h.cap by the end of the year, maybe lower.
any suggestions of similar irons would be appreciated 😀
Folks,
I attended a demo days last weekend, and hit quite a few of both the AP2 and ZBlend. I am a 9 handicapper (Very good long game, but a mediocre short game) currently playing Nike Tour Pro combos (a blended forged set from 2+ years ago). The AP2 felt just a bit bland to me – as if there was a thin piece of foam on the clubface – but they look good from the top and you dont really see any of the cavity business at address – I hit them very well and they seemed to work the ball fairly well and achieved good distance.
I absolutely loved the Zblends, they felt pure and buttery, and I was easily able to work the ball both ways (my nike’s dont like to fade very much, but draws are no problem- even with my SST pured shafts). The trajectory was good as was the distance. The long irons felt really great. They are also a great looking club with a beautiful finish. I was so impressed with them I ordered a set with the Project X flighted shafts right on the spot.
Birdie’n Fool Rob
Rob,
Were the ZB more or less forgiving than your Nikes. I really need new irons but I don’t know what to buy AP2 or the ZB. I have be playing the 735 for 2 years and hit the ball very well just looking for a little more forgiveness way make the game harder. So are the ZB forgiving?
NSSTROKES,
Thats hard to tell and really depends on how you hit it. I found that the AP2 worked the ball equally as well as the ZB, and maybe a bit better (primarily with a fade) than my Nikes. But then again, somewhat difficult to tell given I’m in Michigan hitting in heated tees with rock hard, Ice cold, but good quality range balls. It may be a whole different experience when the balls compress better with warmer weather. Regardless, I hit both clubs very well, but I personally loved the feel and click of the ZB. I have to believe that the ZB will be less forgiving than the AP2 since it is closer to a blade than the AP2 is – the cavity weighting in the AP2 I’m sure will be more forgiving. Best bet is to find a demo day event and hit them before deciding.
Rob
I ordered my AP1s after playing a round with the demo clubs. They felt great to me.
I am have a 17 handicap. My current irons are graphite shafted Warriors. I tend to hit these right to left.
Based my pro’s input, I ordered steel-shafted clubs.
The AP1s were longer. I consistently hit the 8-iron up to 150 and the 6-iron 175 to 180. I had several short birdie putts.
I tested and bought a set of AP2’s last week. I’ve just turned 50 and was looking for a transition set with a touch more forgineness than the 695’s that I had been playing. I was a 4 handicap but it had been slipping to a 7.
The AP2’s have been the perfect move for me. They retain a good amount of feel and playability with just enough forgiveness, especially in the long irons. I was going to get a couple of hybrids but no need now!
The AP2’s can hit all the shots and feel great on the finesse shots around the greens. They are also easy enough to knock down in the wind.
By far the best set that I’ve ever laid my hands on and the handicap is moving in the right direction again. I used them with the Bridgestone B330S ball. Great combo.
Just got my Titleist ZMs in on Saturday and shot my lowest round on Sunday. These are awesome clubs; they do what you want them to do. In my view, they are a touch more forgiving than the 695MBs. I love the thin top line and minimal offset; they also seem a little lighter than the 695MBs. I think Titleist hit the nail on the head with these and they will stay in my bag for a long time.
I currently play a very old set of Mizuno T-Zoid Pro 2. They are getting pretty worn so I decided that I would look into a new set. My top choices were the new ZB and MP-57. There was a demo day in my area last weekend so I went to try some out. The MP-57’s were great and played like my old set. Same with the ZB’s. I was a little skeptical about the AP2 but they were there and I gave them a try. They hit just like the other two. The big difference was that any off center hit went almost as straight and far as the others. The ZB was a great club but not very forgiving if you don’t hit it on the screws. I play around a 6 but I don’t get out as much as I would like to, so there are a few mis-hits around the course. The Titleist rep kept alternating me between the two and on the center hits you could throw a towel over the results. There is not much difference between the two, except for the off-center hits. The AP2 was much better than the ZB on those. I could hit hit the AP2 low and high, draw and fade, all of the shots are there. Don’t be fooled by the looks, these clubs hit great.
Had a go with the AP2’s today at my local club really liked them sturck the ball clean. They are way out of my budget. My knowledge on irons isnt great so are there any old Titleist models that are very similar and much cheaper in price. Sturggling a bit with my 990 dci’s at the moment.
I have had the 755’s since last year and have lowered my handicap to a four. I am an incredible ball striker, but sometimes miss the ball off the top of the club causing lost distance. My friend just got the AP2’s with the rifle project x 5.5 shafts. The combination of the shaft and the forgiving clubhead of the AP2’s is unbelievable. You literally cant miss with these clubs. Its like cheating Also they look nice as hell at address. I am getting them in the next few weeks. If you do get the AP2’s I highly recommend u get fitted. Also the project x shafts blow any other shaft out of the water. They are nice to look at and very lite. These clubs will help you gain some confidence and you will be able to go at the ball with confidence. Even on off- center hits they go very straight. Go give them a try.
Erik, couldn’t agree more. Your comments on the AP1 are on target. I have been a Mizuno MP60 player for a couple of years now and before that Wilson Staff FG17s, MP32, Hogan Apex and Red Line and CB 690s. I wanted to try the something (I hoped) more forgiving but ones not wild in appearance. The AP1s looked good and based on demos and various reviews, I purchased a set. I was able to get to a 7 hc at my club but have a tough time recently, staying there (grandkids and travel have taken their toll) so now I am an honest 12 and having purchased the AP1s I am heading in the right direction. I have been a forged (blade) player most of my life and my worries about transitioning to the AP1s were unfounded. At my age, I enjoy the ‘help’ of the AP1s and they do not look unattractive at setup to me at all. Good article…thanks!
the mp 57s are terrable and you should get the ap2s. the ap2s give beter hight in the longer irons and the 9 iron and p wedge spin like the new vokey 60m.
i have tried the mp57s and they are pure crap. 😆 the best thing for you to do is forget completly about the mp57s because they made my handicap worse.
I have been a big fan of Taylor Made but due to recent unfriendly customer service by Taylor made Malaysia, I have switched all my clubs to Titleist. Taylor Made gave all sort of crabs foe their manufacturing fault and point fingers to consumer for some stupid reason.
Try Titleist ZMs, you guys will like it. It is just like having a remote control in hand and you can do how you want it to do. Playing straight balls or even draw. These irons is really awesome !!!