Patrick57

Hi johnclayton , Too many people on the happy pills on this forum. This is my last post. Quote: You said I don't believe you. I hit my 9 iron on average 110-130 metres, if you bothered to read my post, you would have seen that. My course is 9 hole, 3300 yds and the water hazards are mainly lateral with the longest frontal carry being 125 from the tee. I teach beginners and find little need to carry a bag of clubs onto the course with them. My nine iron does a good job. BTW putting with a nine iron helps iron out all flaws for a solid pedulum stroke. Come out to Austria, you give me 8 shots for 18 holes with your full set and I'll whip your ass with my 9#. Sincerely yours Patrick P.S. I don't lie, people just fill in the gaps. Hey I just noticed this: Quote: He/she/it may be confusing yards with meters, or a regulation course with an executive one. Maybe he should just use his putter for the full round and play double bogey golf. I rest my happy pills case!

Hi Tomboys , specifics please? Sincerely yours Patrick

Hello iacas, You love to disect my words don't you. And if you look back I did answer your questions. Quote: You said, I think "natural" sounds great but doesn't mean much. Pros don't have "perfect" swings either, and my swing isn't perfect, nor the swings of my students, but they all adhere to the same basic principles of geometry and physics. I breathe, walk, run, cycle etc etc etc naturally but God does these things perfectly. To me, Tiger, Rory, Freddy, Jack, Lee etc etc are Gods. Its nice to know that you teach using geometry and physics, that`s my problem, I didn't take them at school so I shouldn't be teaching or playing or writing about the golf swing. Quote: You said, I'm fairly comfortable with my place in the game in terms of knowledge of the golf swing. Are you teaching golf or adhering the basic principles of geometry and physics. Its about the only sport you can get away with saying that. Watched your video by the way, that's not your swing, its a kinda drill/demo where you jerk into an un natural finish. Why the strobe lighting? So c'mon let us see your normal swing without all the drills. I prefer face on, you must have one. Sincerely yours Patrick P.S. The video wasn't meant to be disected and my flipping was against the cushion and unfortunately I didn't flip with the ball. LoL

Before I begin, I have written this article as a conversation piece and if someday they do change this rule, I am not looking for any remuneration. Its definitely not Spam. This new rule from the manufacturer's perspective. Lets double how many clubs we may carry. We could stick 3 drivers in the bag; one with extra draw; another with more loft and another just for show. We could have 3 fairway woods, 3 hybrids and a driving iron. Add to this all the irons from 1 thru to 9 and then 5 wedges - 48°, 52°, 56°, 60° & 64°. That leaves enough room for a couple of chipping irons and three putters. Callaway, TaylorMade et al would be licking their chops and I bet plenty of golfers would go for it. Would golfers play better with double the choice? Noooo! I find that the opposite is closer to the truth. For the good of the game. Lets leave the present rule alone for the pros. They have put in the hours and can float a 9 iron consistently to 140 and an 8 to 150 and so on. I know very few normal golfers who do this with any consistency. I personally play with 7 clubs in my bag and I can shoot around par with them. When i go out with 14 clubs I normally play worse because I often choose the wrong club. I have a driver for my tee shots; 5 wood for 170 plus tee shots and longer fairway shots; 5 hybrid 26° for all shots 150-170; 7 iron for 130-150; 9 iron for all shots from off the green to 130; 56° wedge for sand and when I have to go high and finally my putter. With this selection I rarely choose the wrong club. I would change the rule for amateurs. I am not a lover of the handicap system but I know its there and its probably there to stay. It does however make this new rule easier to apply. It goes like this... Class (1) Handicap 4.4 or lower may use up to 9 clubs. Class (2) Handicap 4.5 to 11.4 may use up to 8 clubs. Class (3) Handicap 11.5 to 18.4 may use up to 7 clubs. Class (4) Handicap 18.5 to 25.4 may use up to 6 clubs. Class (5) Handicap 25.5 or higher may use up to 5 clubs. I do this with many of my students and they get to class 1, 2 and 3 very quickly. When I play with class 4 and 5, I restrict myself to one club, my 9 iron and usually play bogey golf with it (and yes I do putt out with it). It lets them see just how easy bogey golf is. I can guide most of my students to bogey golf with 5 clubs but when they go out with more it all goes sideways. I tell them that we don't have a putter for 10 ft and another for 20ft, we use a thing called touch. I chip anything from 5 to 40 yds with my 9 iron using the same skill, and can use this skill to vary the distance with any of my 7 clubs. Want to get down to a lower handicap, then get to know 5 clubs inside out before you pop another one in the bag. P.S. I love playing with only my 9 iron and it gives me plenty of challenge to play bogey golf. It also improves my creative skills which add a new dimension to my game.

Hello johnclayton , Quote: The Original Poster is clearly trying to promote something. Regardless, I think the question of "should you emulate the pros" is a really good one. Hence why i posted, and I think it is interesting. Should you try to swing like the pros? Or should you keep it "simpler" ? I'd like to hear thoughts on these questions from people better at golf than I am. Will someone tell me exactly what it is I am trying to promote. The impact bag is as old as old. I am not selling anything. I do not have a website. I am glad you did refer to the point of my OP. I would also like to hear thoughts on this. Sincerely yours Patrick

Hi MiniBlueDragon , I usually find the people that I meet for the first time are basically nice. The iagas guy definitely has something wrong with his big head analysing my modest swing and calling it imperfect. Quote: I have two questions. 1. In the image on the left, do you consider this a good impact position? 2. In the image on the right, is popping the ball up off the top of your driver acceptable? Sarcastic clown I'd love to see his perfect swing. I've changed my single sentence concept... "It must be nice to be perfect" Anyway thanks for the kind explanation for the level of etiquette I should expect on this site. Sincerely yours Patrick

Hello Iacas, I said my swing was natural, not perfect. I also said that amateurs shouldn't try to swing like pros (and I mean touring pros). Is this a discussion forum or a critics haven? Why do you seem to think I was describing my ordinary swing as perfect? My idea or concept in a simple sentence is... "It's nice to be nice." Sincerely yours Patrick P.S. Quote: The video is private, no one can access it without the link from me. I only posted it for the first reply because I thought it was apt. I am not promoting the cushion, the idea is as old as old.

Hi Th3R00st3r , The video is private, no one can access it without the link from me. I only posted it for the first reply because I thought it was apt. I am not promoting the cushion, the idea is as old as old. I am showing my restricted and natural golf swing. I think 'hit it and rip it' suited the video and made no promises of extra length. Thanks for the edited part of your post. Sincerely yours Patrick

Hi mdl, I am not trying to say I am a genius, I have opened a discussion and am happy to reply to your comments. I hope my tone was at least courteous, just like my etiquette when I am playing golf. Unfortunately, I find your tone a little unfriendly but find your comments very apt to the post. Perhaps my post was a little long winded but do I deserve to be called a self-important huckster. I believe too many amateurs believe they should be swinging like the pros and too amny videos, books, magazines and coaches back up the idea. Sincerely yours Patrick

If you don't understand the post, don't comment. Definition of SPAM... Spam is the use of media sources on the internet to send unsolicited bulk messages indiscriminately. As I am live, on line, answering any comments on this post, I don't think I can be described as being indiscriminate.

HI MBD, I am not saying they can play good golf with no effort, I am just saying they don't have the time to put in the effort that the pros do. And while they can't put in this effort they should face the fact that they will have to swing with more restriction if they want to acquire consistency and improvement. There is for each individual only one natural way to swing correctly and endless ways to swing it incorrectly. So there are loads of ways to swing incorrectly but not loads of correct swings. Your third comment was only repeating the first two and mentioning the impact bag. I have used many training aids and although many of them are almost useless if the student achieves a feeling for what you are trying to say, you are going to save a lot of time getting it across. Sincerely yours Patrick

Hello Jwat, Yes its all too complicated. I try to put it all as simply as possible and once my students have a reasonably natural hold of the club - grip - I then try to find their natural swing. I don't know if you have tried the Impact Bag but with little instruction you are going to find your best swing with one of them. Here's a video that will show you how my students and myself acquire super impact conditions using a similar aid... I hope you find it helpful. All the best Patrcik P.S. Everyone more or less hits this the same way.

A typical amateur golfer tries to emulate the textbook swings of top professionals. Among other endless criteria, he generally tells himself that he's got to get the club parallel at the top of the back swing; shift his weight at impact without moving his head or altering his spine angle; and end up perfectly balanced on his target foot after a smooth follow through. However, a top professional has a rather lengthy and complicated regime for his swing which, for him, is an imperative for successfully reproducing the miracle shots required for his trade. This regime involves: one to two hours of stretching and exercise before going to the range/course; working for 2-6 hours on various elements of his game with his coach/caddy/video feedback equipment; and then putting this all together playing nine or eighteen holes of golf. This is a normal non-tournament day for the average modern professional and only the cream of the crop manage to put it together well enough to make a living on one of the tours. I could go on and on but my main point is that there's a swing for pros and therefore there must be a less structured and more individual swing for amateurs. We all walk, run, jump, swim, drive, ride a bicycle etc and although we do these similarly there are no strict directives on how to do them. I coach this game and, in my opinion, the main mistake that golfers are making is trying to emulate the pros. And it's not their fault! All the magazines, books, videos, golf channels and most teaching pros insist there is only the pro's way. The logic is... they do it best, so they are doing it correctly. Well so are professionals in other sports but I don't see amateur skiers taking corners at 70 mph cutting the snow with a half inch edge of their skis; or tennis players busting a gut trying to place a 100+ mph service in the correct part of the court; or driving a car with slick tyres into a sharp bend at over 150 mph and applying the brakes at the last second in order to glide round the inside of another driver with the same goal. I say different levels for differing skill standards. I recently took up tennis and decided to follow a training video to improve my service and quickly realised that the hours of precise practice and timing just weren't possible for me. I'm miles away from hitting the ball at professional levels because my consistency and control suffer when I do. I play tennis and golf to my capabilities, the same way as I do every other physical action. So why does an amateur golfer feel he has to try to swing like a pro? Mainly because that is the way they have been instructed and the pros look really good the way they are doing it. And we've all had those days, rather seldom may I add, where our golf swing just knitted together and the results were way above our norm, only to return another day back to square one. There must be a more consistent alternative. When anyone comes to my school for a golf lesson, I always ask two very important questions before I start... How much time do you intend to spend practicing each week? Do you intend to adopt a stretching routine before each practice session and for how long? These questions put me in a better position to advise my students on how they will be able to swing and I can also clear up the myth of why they shouldn't or can't adopt a pro-like swing. Most people want to play for hours on end but devote less than one hour per month on practice. On the same breath, a couple of minutes of stretching each day is well above average. I have devised an easy drill that proves why this textbook swing is more athletic than golfers are led to believe. (Up to this point they have been so obsessed with looking ''correct'' at the end of the back swing that they were ignoring natural swing fundamentals. Typical errors include: lifting the club to this position; weight over the target foot; straightening of the off target leg; over rotation of the hips and many more.) Performing my drill, my students manage to experience back swing restriction for the first time. The fittest of my students have trouble stretching further than a three quarter length back swing. Putting it simply, how can a regular golfer who hasn't, and normally doesn't want to, put in the practice hours or essential stretching required, be expected to accomplish the very atheletically challenging conditions achieved by the top athletes of the sport. My biggest problem when I coach this game is unfortunately all too common. This textbook swing is so deeply imprinted in every golfer's mind that a much more natural swing with important qualities like fluidity or back swing restricion is a rarity. I used to lose students when I told them they weren't fit enough for a complete backswing. Most of them had the same visual impression of how to swing properly and didn't realise there should be natural restriction. These days most of my new students are promptly introduced to this natural condition with my aforementioned drill. Let's get down to this simple drill and for most of you it's time to feel this backswing restriction for the first time! I prefer to introduce this drill to my students without a golf club because with one they do the 'same old - same old' and don't feel the natural back swing restriction that I am trying to portray. I use a carpet beater when I introduce this drill. (A tennis/squash/badmington racket does the same job.) At ground level, I place a cushion against the wall and procede to hit it one handed - my dominant hand - with a forehand action and don't think about golf but naturally striking the cushion. You should feel little or no backswing restriction at this point and you should notice that you don't take the racket back as far as the conventional parallel position at the top of the advised golf swing. Within a few swings you should feel that this is a very natural task for you that belongs to other motor skills in your repetoire that have been mastered. You are now ready to feel natural backswing restriction! It's time to use the other hand but we don't want this hand to interfere with what I describe as your own natural swing. This hand has to be put in place as a non-interfering passenger. Lie the four fingers of this hand on the back of the hand holding the racket and fold the palm snugly above the adjacent thumb. Now repeat the forehand action. I expect most of you won't get your hands much higher than your hips on the back swing. This drill makes you experience tighter restriction than the conventional grip but the important thing is to feel this natural condition. At this point everybody is surprised at how fit you have to be for a full back swing A golf swing without restriction is always unnatural and almost always wrong. I repeat... A golf swing without restriction is always unnatural and almost always wrong.