bamagrad03

Well a lot of this is stemming from them being #1 in the computers. So I do think they're overrated. It's not PC to put undefeated teams behind 1 loss teams, so technically, they're probably ranked correctly. But teams I think that could beat ND? I think LSU would beat ND. I think FSU would beat ND. Oklahoma we'll get to see in a couple weeks. Southern Cal we'll find out as well. I think Clemson could, Texas A&M; could. But that's the beauty of it, we get the benefit of sitting back and letting the season play itself out. I'm going to be an ND skeptic until the find an offense and start beating crappy teams with ease. Miami was a good start.

Agreed. But they aren't squeaking by with one score wins like ND did against Michigan and Purdue. There's no way a team like Clemson or Oklahoma beats a Purdue team by 3 points at home. That's why I'm saying you can't JUST look at the record. You have to look at how they win. Is ND much improved? Yes. Are they a top 7 team? No. ND's defense is winning them games right now. But they HAVE to find some offense before they can be considered an elite team. Have to.

ND lost 13 straight bowl games for a reason: you can't hide behind over ranking when you play in a bowl game. I think ND is MUCH improved this year. I really do. But they've beaten name teams this year, not good teams. Elite teams don't win squeakers against Purdue and Michigan this year. Michigan St is garbage. And Miami gave up 50 something to KState. They only have 1 win over a currently ranked opponent: Michigan. And Michigan is painfully average this year. If ND were ranked accurately, they wouldn't be a double digit dog to Oklahoma in two weeks. Which, I'm willing to bet that line is at least OU -9. There's no way only 6 teams in the country would beat ND on a neutral field. Not when Michigan and Purdue almost did it on the road. I think ND is headed in the right direction and I like their coach. But every time ND shows even the slightest pulse, the ND lovin sportswriters shoot them up the rankings like a bullet.

Quote: Originally Posted by LSU_justin I hate Les Miles. Les Miles isn't your problem. He's a damn fine coach. LSU has been wrecked with injuries this year. Especially on the Oline. Between that and Matthieu's antics, it really put LSU behind the 8 ball. I really like Miles and he's done a great deal while he's been down there. Just think he was dealt a bad hand this year. Quote: I can't wait for the BCS rankings to come out because from what I've read it's going to be rather crazy with the computer polls having several different teams at number 1. Yeah, since margin of victory is no longer considered, ND gets the same credit for a 1 score win over Michigan at home as we do for a 42-14 romping of them on a neutral field. I can't believe ND is ranked so high. Louisville and ND have no business being ranked where they are. Both have good records, but both have struggled with some bad teams. Purdue? Come on. Louisville beat Southern Miss by 4 - a week removed from Southern Miss losing 42-14 to Western Kentucky.

Nice JUCO pickup by the Vols.

Quote: That being said, I will guess with about 90% certainty that you are a white male, and that you do not want your superiority to be withdrawn Not to be disrespectful, because you've been quite respectful in your responses. But this reeks of years of politically correct social programming. I'm a white male. I have not even a modicum of superiority in modern society. I had to pay my way through college while many my minority peers went for free even though they were much less academically qualified. Not because they were poor, or came from a place where they couldn't succeed - but because they were minorities. I come from a lower middle class family that for a large time in my younger years was dirt poor. I earned my way. I'm a software engineer. Not a CEO. Not a member of an expensive country club. I've seen countless people lose out on promotions BECAUSE they weren't a woman or BECAUSE they weren't a minority. It's a very modern notion that somebody didn't get something because of who they are or where they came from. And that the ONLY reason white males are successful is because of their gender and race. It's frankly insulting. As if some guy is standing on the corner handing out million dollar jobs to the next white guy who strolls up. Superiority you say...I'm not superior by any definition of the word. I'm a white christian male which makes me public enemy #1 in the new politically correct America. And beyond that, I'm part of the only class of people in this country for whom discrimination against is acceptable. What's that saying? "If you want to know who's in charge, just find out whom you can't speak out against." If that's true, then I'm the last guy to be considered superior. *Note: This in no way is a rant against promoting women or minorities or programs that help people who need help to succeed in this country. It was just an attempt to illustrate that superiority is all relative.

When I first thought I was going to try out golf about 6-7 years ago, I was at the range for the first time and did this exact same thing. I was so mortified that I never went back...to any range, until now.

So you're saying it is OK to discriminate against people, as long as they're white males. Got it. Sorry but that's a load of politically correct BS. Again, everything in the world doesn't have to be inclusive. And that's ok. This is like someone suing because they didn't get invited to the treehouse sleepover. If a bunch of guys want to have what's effectively a 'guy's night' without women in the club, why is that some horrific end of the world? It isn't. But because we have to placate everyone's delicate sensibilities, we have to go out of our way to make sure nobody gets their feelings hurt and everyone gets a turn. It's stupid. It's silly. If someone didn't want me in their club, I'd find another club. I wouldn't go cry and moan about them not letting me in theirs. Honestly, I care much less about the integration of women members than I do the blatant hypocrisy that has become commonplace. People stand on their soap boxes and take up their crosses under the guise of fighting against some form of discrimination - but have ZERO problems with discrimination against some unprotected class. If you are losing sleep over the travesty that is an all male country club, then the same amount of sleep should be lost over an all female health club. End of story.

Quote: Does the LPGA hold tournaments are all-female clubs? If so then I'd have huge problem with that as well. Why?

But they aren't held to a higher standard because of sponsor dollars. They're held to a higher standard because we live in an overly-political correct world that has decided EVERYONE must be included in EVERYTHING, unless your club is exclusive to a protected group - then it's OK. If Augusta was an all women golf club that regularly held LPGA events - but no men members - there wouldn't have been a single protest, a single story on ESPN, and not a single golfer would be asked to give their opinion on how "great it is for the sport" that they allowed their first male member. We've decided that common sense must no longer be applied. All must yield to the forces of political correctness, whether it is logical or not.

I read this and couldn't help but laugh out loud as I visualized this ordeal.

Actually, if it was just me shanking the ball so bad that I struck another golfer at the driving range...that wouldn't be very uncommon or lucky for me. Just an average day at the range. :)

Only a month into golf, this is definitely the craziest/luckiest thing I've ever seen in golf. What's yours?

This is sort of where I stand on the matter as well. I couldn't care less who the let in or out of their treehouse. I just find it off putting that they're being pressured by others to cave to a politically correct agenda. While others aren't being held to the same standard. There's nothing wrong with men wanting a place of their own to go and get away from women from time to time. Just like there's nothing wrong with women wanting their own club as well. But as to whom they allow in their club under their own volition: I couldn't care less.

Quote: Originally Posted by ClayHbg If you can name a women's club with comparable money, prestige, and influence that Augusta has and you express a genuine desire to become a member, I guarantee people like Martha Burke would be happy to protest on your behalf. It's not about taking things away from men, it's about granting equal opportunities to women. This makes absolutely no sense. If it's SUUUUCH a horrible example of discrimination, then it doesn't matter on what scale it's done. Face it, you think it is OK to discriminate against men in this case, but not against women (because it's not a PC issue to make sure men are included). By the way, from Curves website: " Curves has nearly 10,000 locations in over 85 countries." Quote: This is the perfect example of a straw man argument. Create a position that no one has taken and argue against that. No one is trying to outlaw all men's clubs. There are all-male cigar, poker, health, and social clubs all over the country. There are also the same sorts of race-exclusive clubs. The difference (which I believe you understand but can't argue) is that those clubs don't benefit from millions of dollars in endorsements from companies that recieve federal money and they aren't featured on national TV with limited commercials every year. I didn't create a straw man. I articulated a simple premise that it's OK for women to have a club where only women are allowed, but for some reason it's some bastion of bigotry and discrimination for men to have the same. The size or revenue generation of the club is immaterial as it relates to the concept of discrimination. If Augusta was so wrong to not allow women, than ANY club that disallows men, should be equally wrong, shouldn't it? You can't say: "Augusta is highly discriminatory by not allowing women, but it is only discriminatory because they make more money than the all women's health club across the street." Talk about a straw man.