Paiste

Listen guys, I don't want to come across as an a**hole because I'm actually pretty laid back. It's just that I'm stubborn. I love the game and I'm improving quite well at the moment. I guess I'm just not wrapping my head around certain posts. Anyway, iacas, what do you mean when you say No. 20 and +3 when referring to ball striking?

Ok. I though that's what I was trying to say. Decent ball striking is relative to your level of play.

Good point. Maybe he's being modest so to keep his ego in check, which is very smart. Personally though, I highly doubt that he doesn't have very good ball striking abilities to be a 5.4 hcp. That's a good player right there. It just makes sense. I've been getting told in this thread that good ball striking and single to low single hcp go hand in hand. Well, wouldn't you have to have decent enough ball striking to be a 5.4?

Wait a minute, you're saying that to be a good ball striker you have to be a single digit or even low single digit. You're a 5.4 hcp and you're not a good ball striker by any means. How did you get to that handicap if you're not a good ball striker? That doesn't make sense to me. You're contradicting yourself. You have a low handicap so you have to be a decent enough ball striker to get to that point. Like you guys said, you can't get to that level of play on short game alone. I know you said low single digit but you're not that far off that at a 5.4 hcp that your ball striking is poor.

Ok, I see what your saying. Not hitting your target or knowing your distance control does not make you a good ball striker just because you make solid contact. But, for someone who has a 18 plus hcp, he would be a decent ball striker for his level of play, wouldn't he? All in all, the term "Good ball striker" refers to someone who can control the golf ball like you said in almost any situation making them a low single digit or professional. Maybe I was being a little bit too literal. Cheers.

Anyway, back to the real topic of discussion. This was my fourth day in a row at the range working hard on tension and temp my ball striking is steadily improving. I see a good difference in consistency for sure. This isn't a quick swing fix or a momentary lapse of luck. This is due to hard work and actually performing drills and a sound practice regimen at the range, not just beating balls for 3 hours. Say what you will, I've worked extremely hard and it's paying off. I'm not getting ahead of myself because I know that there still is a LONG road ahead with a steep learning curve.

This is getting ridiculous. Now this is turning into a completely different topic altogether because I made a comment that wasn't literal. So what you guys are saying is that to be a good ball striker you pretty much have to be a pro or low single digit. Bullshit. I've read a lot of posts in these forums which pertain to people being good ball strikers but having the other aspects of their game falling short; the reason why their hcp is slightly on the higher side. I was making an exaggeration earlier to get my point across. I was not being literal.

I guess it can go either way. You hear some guys say, "He put a good swing on it" or "He struck that well". I guess I'm just leaning towards the swing and not the hit. Maybe there is no difference to a lot of people but to me there is. I feel that when I hit the ball that the ball is my target and it feels like I'm getting stuck at impact because once I hit the ball the objective is completed. When I'm swing the club I feel like I'm swinging to the target, the ball is in the path of the swing and I release the club to the target not the ball. Does that make any sense?

I actually play golf with a friend of mine fairly regularly and he is a good ball striker. His accuracy isn't the best but he makes good contact; solid and crisp. He's not tuned into his distance control yet so he's always leaving himself tough chips and pitches or long putts. His short game is well below his ball striking as is his putting so he loses a lot strokes due to that. All he practices are full irons shots and driver. Never pulls out his wedges and putter at the range and practices shots from around the green or 50 yards out. He hits the ball beautifully when he's in full swing but that's it. I don't know if it's his ego but he's always pulling out his pitching wedge from 160 and ending up 20 yards short. His excuse is "I usually hit my PW 160 no problem" but I've never seen it. In that case, he's a good ball striker but he has no short game or putting, plus he chooses the wrong clubs all of the time. I think that would qualify.

It wasn't literal. Holy shit you guys need to chill out. I was saying that you can be a good ball striker but that doesn't mean you have a complete game. You guys love opportunities to jump on people. RELAX.

Wow, I must of been doped up or sleeping when I wrote that post. "Swinging the clubbing in much different" and "the difference know". That's brutal and I'm an engineer for Christ's sake!!! Yes, it's a great feeling. You spend a lot of time and hard work developing fundamentals all the while, still trying to kill the ball. When the term "Swing" dawns on you, practice has a whole new meaning. It's given me tempo and rhythm which was sporadic for me before. I used to have a really slow backswing and then BAM, right into my downswing. Now it's much more fluid. After a few more range sessions I'll post my swing and you'll see a big difference, I hope!!

Oh, I don't think for one bit that I've found the solution to golf. I finally realized that swinging the clubbing in much different than muscling the club and trying to hit the ball. The difference between tense muscles and relaxed muscles is unbelievable. Try throwing a baseball with a tense arm; you'll have no power, accuracy or distance. When you are relaxed, you can throw the ball however you please (to a degree). Golf is similar in that manner. What I have found is that by swinging the golf club, I have become more consistent and confident but golf is a never ending learning curve and I know that. There will be good rounds, bad rounds and even some great rounds but the difference know is that most of my shots will be solid, not always on target but solid. It's much easier to make that contact with a relaxed swing, eliminating tension. I was at the range today and when I was relaxed with no tension, I hit the ball crisp and sweet. As soon as I tried to kill it or I became tense in trying to muscle it, I topped it. That's how I know what "Swing" means. Now applying the term "Swing" to my golf swing is going to take a lot of repetitions and practice but I'm on my way to becoming a better player. Golf is very hard and by know means am I that arrogant that I think that I've figured it out.

I shouldn't have said "Fire to the ball". What I meant was "Fire to the target."

This is my approach and I don't give 2 f**ks what the other guys think. I've noticed on this board that when you improve your game other players are either envious that you've improved or they think that you are full of shit. So, I'll do my best and I apologize in advance if you already know or have tried this and it didn't work for you. This is also based on having some good fundamentals as well. I am not a pro or an instructor so this is based off of on-line instruction and personal experience. I'll try to put it into words for you: Before, I had way too much tension in my left arm and wrists, even though my grip was tension free. When I started my take away, the tension in my arms, shoulders and wrists would leak into my grip causing inconsistencies and forcing the club therefore not swinging to the target; getting stuck at impact. What I figured out is to completely let all out of the tension in your upper body, from the shoulders to the arms to the wrists to you grip. Start your take away then let your shoulders take the club back all the while staying as relaxed and tension free as possible. When you feel the tightness from coiling in your backswing then initiate the downswing with your hips, staying tension free all the way to your finish. For tempo, I make sure that my mouth is slightly open and that I'm exhaling throughout the swing (helps with tension). I also count in my head. In the backswing I count 1....2... then at the top of my backswing I feel like there is a slight pause (even though there isn't, just helps to finish the backswing and not rush the downswing) then I count to 3 to initiate the down swing. So, it's 1......2.....(top of back swing) then 3 to fire to the ball. Letting your shoulders turn to take the club back instead of your arms is huge. I had a problem with letting my arms somewhat, not fully, take the club back, almost picking it up and that restricted my shoulder turn, robbing me of some power and consistency (even though I could still hit some good solid shots) The biggest difference I find is confidence that I have over the ball, and I'm definitely more consistent. I hope this helps. Let me know how it goes.

It's because of my short game and putting. When I say brutally top I mean a thin shot that still carries reasonable distance, fairly straight but not hit solid. You can be the best ball striker in the world but if your short game and putting sucks you could still be a 20 hcp. Ed: A new thread was created from posts originally in this thread: http://thesandtrap.com/t/77352/swing-dont-hit/

You're right, I realize now that it was just a little ball busting. I know very well how cruel the sport can be, that's why it's so exciting when you have a break through, whether big or small. The golf gods giveth and the golf gods taketh. Cheers guys. Sorry if I overreacted.

I never ever said once that I've figured it out so stop putting words into my mouth. What I was saying was that I work very hard but haven't improved in over a year due to the fact that I hade too much tension in my swing. Now that I've eliminated tension, the improvement is big and I'm more consistent. I even said that there's still a lot more work to be done. What I've figured out is how to swing instead of muscling the club. Never once did I say that I've figured out golf, I figured out what "Swing, don't hit" means. I'm excited that I had some improvement and I wanted to share it with the forum but obviously that was a mistake. You guys are brutal. I've broken through a plateau and it makes a big difference. I said as well that we'll see what happens when I get on the course. I never said that I'm going to go out and rip the course up and break 80 or any shit like that. I'm just excited that I made a big improvement. Never mind, I don't need to justify myself.

"Swing, don't hit" is a phrase that I've come across about 1000 times since I started playing golf. I knew what it meant or what the meaning of it was but for the longest time, up until recently, my brain could not process the ideology behind it. There were times when I thought to myself, "There's no difference between swinging and hitting as the objective is the same." Wow, was I wrong. For the last year, I've been a fairly solid ball striker but if I was to hit 10 balls in a row, I would say 6 would be solid, 2 would be a slight mishit and 2 would be brutally topped. I worked relentlessly on fundamentals, took lessons, you name it but I couldn't become more consistent. This is until 3 days ago. After watching a video on tension in the golf swing, the saying "Swing don't hit" finally dawned on me. It felt like a revelation. I immediately grabbed an iron, went out in my backyard and practiced my swing while eliminating all tension. It felt like how a golf swing is supposed to feel. On my way to the range, I was thinking, "Is this what I've been looking for? Is all this hard work going to pay off today?" Holy s**t did it ever. It was/is unbelievable. Effortless power, no more trying to muscle the ball. I finally understand what "Golf Swing" means. Now, I would say maybe 1 or 2 shots out of ten are either a top or a mishit and that's because I allow some tension to leak back into my swing, creating problems (the other 8 or 9 shots are not all pure but they are solid strikes). I have never felt so confident over the ball. I know that there is still many things to work on but this was a HUGE step in becoming a better player. Hopefully, when I play my next round, I can relax and allow myself to "Swing" the club, therefore crating better shots, opportunities and better rounds. Just thought I'd share that with you guys. It's an unbelievable feeling to finally comprehend this. Cheers.

- Spring - Summer - Late Summer/Early Fall I live in Canada so winter golf is normally out of the question for me. Personally though, I love all seasons but if I had to pick one it would be late summer/early fall. It's not too hot (it get's upwards of 35 to 40 degrees in the summer in Niagara (Southern Ontario), the courses are in great shape, not too busy and the leaves haven't fallen yet (pain in the ass to find your ball when there's leaves on the ground). It's the perfect conditions to play. The only minor drawback is that there is a little more wind this time of year. As of right now, we have 20 to 25 degree weather for the next week and a half which is beautiful golf weather. Looking forward to it.

It's a double edged sword. Even though I completely disagree with unsolicited, counterproductive advice, I wouldn't delve myself in a situation that doesn't include me. If someone was giving a struggling golfer bad advice I wouldn't try to correct that advice unless I was asked to. Even then, I would only give a tip that was universal in golf as I'm not qualified to go much further than that.

I'm starting to recover now, ha, ha, ha. Anyways, yep, he was definitely a strange one. Like I said, I welcome a tip once and a while, as long as it's a tip and not a swing change!!!! I never, never solicit swing advice to complete strangers. I find that to be extremely offensive and irritating. Range sessions are meant to be practice sessions. I know that when I go to the range I know beforehand what drills I'm going to do and what I'm going to work on. When I get there, I grab a couple of buckets, try to isolate myself and get to work. Most other golfers are doing the same thing as me. This guy was staring at everyone one, watching them hit balls. What's funny is that there was this big dude hitting balls a few tee blocks away from me and his backswing was great but his legs almost collapsed on his downswing and it looked very awkward and uncomfortable. "Oh well", I thought to myself, that's his swing. He seemed to be hitting the ball ok, with a handful of topped shots here and there. But he seemed like a guy who was having fun, not out there to be Joe Golfer. The OP actually said to me, "If I had this guys size with my knowledge, I'd be on tour." No joke. I just nodded my head and replied, "For sure, man." Hilarious.

I was at the range today but unfortunately, he wasn't there. It was a good day nonetheless. I was working really hard on eliminating tension from my swing and working on some tempo drills as well. All I can say is wow!! It is so much easier to make a proper shoulder turn when you completely eliminate any kind of tension that prevents you from having a fluid swing. That was one of my biggest problems was tension. I wasn't overly tight but there was some tension that would leak into my swing. The human brain tries to convince you that swinging as hard and as fast as you can is the only way to hit a golf ball far and high. Training your brain to do the exact opposite takes time and effort. I always knew that tension was bad but I never thought that I was slightly tense until yesterday. I watched a couple videos on how to relax during the swing and realized that I had some work to do. Well, today was amazing. I removed every ounce of tension, rotated my shoulders to swing my arms back, got a nice coil, then nudged my hips forward to start the downswing, then rotating my hips therefore dropping the club into the slot, square at impact with a nice finish. What a different feeling!! I still had some tightness leaking in here and there and when it did, I topped the ball. I knew what to fix right away. A couple of practice swings and I had that fluid swing back again. It felt great today. I broke through a plateau and definitely improved. I wish that prick was there to see me today dammit!!

Yes I did see him swing. He looked very awkward and he miss hit his driver a couple of times before he hit a decent one. Not much distance, maybe 220 yards. His irons were much of the same. Low ball speed, not much distance at all. I know distance isn't everything but he was talking like he pounds the ball a mile. He wasn't very consistent either. I have an R9 Supertri 11.5 degrees and he went on and on about how my driver has way too much loft and I need an 8.5 degree like his and blah, blah, blah. I love my driver and I hit it well. I really want to run into this guy again so I can tell him to mind his own business and back off. He's the type of guy who will approach me again acting like he's my coach or something. I guarantee he'll ask me why I'm not doing what he told me to do and shit like that which will present the perfect opportunity for me to tell him to politely f**k off. I go to the range to mind my own business and work on my swing. I don't need idiots like this guy approaching me pretending to be something they're not.

Thanks. He kept harping on my wrist hinge. I told him that I took lessons from a certified pro during the winter and his advice (with irons) was to have an early wrist hinge because it's easier to then have a nice wide forward release. I find it much easier when I hinge early and I do not lose any power or distance because of it. It actually made me furious when I left the range and had time to think about it. Who does this tool think he is? I had to reaffirm that an early hinge was ok so I did some research on-line and a ton of instructors and pros use it. That's what guys like that do, they make you question what you worked hard at. After he left, it took me about 15 to 20 balls to get my swing back to normal. I should of told him "No thanks, I'm not interested" right from the start. He had this arrogant attitude as well. Even with what he described as the proper grip. He told me to use a weak grip with my left hand (I'm a righty) with my thumb right on center and my right hand open to the right with my fingers wrapping the club and my thumb again right on the center of the grip. I disagreed and stated that I use a neutral grip with my left hand with my thumb slightly off center to the right so that I can see 2 knuckles and with my right hand I have the grip passing through the middle knuckle section of my fingers with my thumb slightly off center to the left; Using the Vardon grip. He said, "No, no, no, ALWAYS interlock." I just laughed it off but at this point he was about to eat a 7 iron.