daa1969

P.s. I am the master of the 3-putt

Look, im about done with this too! I never said if u cant drive 300 u should b up. Ive gone over that several times now. I was merely using it as a reference that if someone like me who can drive long can still see the point of playing it forward, than why cant some others. Ive stated theres nothing wrong with driving 200 and playing back, as long as your game is on point, Ive also stated that pros almost never let it rip, as i do, ive stated that i too used to come up short on aproach shots because i was using my range average, i stopped doing that a year ago, ive stated that i use yardage markers and gps tracking, if u try sometime, check your gps on cart, some courses i play if you hit enter at tee box it will measure to your ball. Im sure youve seen the commercials play it forward, for 2 weeks in july the pga and usga got together with many courses who closed their back tees, it was a great success, people had more fun and the average time for round went down, dont be too surprised to start seeing some courses adopt some kinda program.

Heres some fun facts for you, average driving accuracy on pga tour is like 61% i recall someone posting he only averaged 71% thats right there with the best. average gir is 64% average proximity to hole is 35' at 200+ yards its 50' and inside 125 its 18' the average greens on tour are 6000-6500 sq ft. The greens i play regularly are quite smaller than that, makes one wonder, are we really that different than them? Well, ya we are, but its not in every aspect, theyve just got the scoring thing down, theyve got the short game, the putting, and overall better course management.

Im counting towards hole, pga doesnt matter in faiway or not, and that seems to be everyones standard to go by, im just looking at lenght of hole and how much i have left after drive

Ok, just found out, pga only measures on 2 holes per round, trying to get one against wind and one with wind, the overall average has decreased in recent years and most speculation is pros generally play the hole backwards nowadays meaning they often use less than driver to put themselves in the best place to hit aproach from. And im sorry for any confusion but i just stated my average drive, never said it was in fairway, thats just my measurement, according to most yardage markers or gps, i rarely hit a drive less than 265, again, not saying thier straight, and i have hit up to 335, i have been putting for eagle on several 300-315 yarders, i wont even use driver on less than 275, my 3 wood will generally get out to the 265 area from the tee, again, no im not always straight, these numbers are not a reflection of fairways hit, and lets not forget elevation changes and altitude, i have a lot of that here

Im really confused how some find it hard to believe someone can drive it 300 yds, there are literally 100s of thousands of people that can do that, unfortunately, most of us dont have the rest of the game to get paid. Dont forget many pga players have been bred into it from a young age, theyve had the luxury of money in the family to back them, scholorships, etc. not all, but a great number. It requires a lot of traveling expenses, entrance fees, etc. when your quit school after 8th grade you kind of shut any helping door that may have opened up for you, now your working to live and golf takes a back seat. Have you ever watched street basketball? Theres guys out there that can run circles around an nba player, but like most of us, bad choices were made or things beyond our control took precedence. We need to stop judging ourselves by pga standards. Do u doubt the guys at long drive competitions?

1st of all, it wasnt a requirement, it was an example of how i know i can drive far but still choose to play up, just trying to figure out why some insist on playing back when they too if theyre lucky can hit it far, i know my game, and yes, i too made a lot of those mistakes, about a year ago i started automatically adding a club to what i thought, i was down to a 6 hndcp, now, ive gone back up a little but im in the process of changes, theyre not comfortable, but im trying to stick with it in hopes of a better future. But for now i am going to make some mistakes.im not solely focused on score at moment.

" Best shot is an anomaly and too many think that is potential" i agree, thats why so many come up short on aproach shots, they think my perfect 9 iron is 150, but under pressure it usually fails you, bet your perfect 8 iron would have been there for you!

Im not saying if you only drive 275 or 245 or whatever u should b up front, its more about the accuracy and consistency, too often its just young guys, not always, but mostly what i see, playing from the back and they set themselves up for failure because now they put the death grip on the club and spray shots everywhere. If you play well and drive it 240 then by all means play back, its your game, but im just sick of waiting around for these "jackwads" to look for thier balls, and yes, most the time they are holding things up, cant tell you how many times ive watched them completely wiff and miss the ball! If u have game and play back thats great, your probably not affecting play, but if u suck than it may be time for a lesson in golf course etiquette

from what i gather the pga only measures balls in the fairway, i could be wrong but thats what ive heard, when i say im in the 305 area im not saying im always in the fairway, im just going by distance from tee to green which as we all know is measured down the middle, so if u factor in a slight turn you end up actually looking better on paper, because by not following the center you may have taken 20 or more yards off. i have used a gps at times to measure and sometimes what looks to be 300 after the math really turns out to be 285 or something if i go straight to ball and not follow shape of fairway. On the launch monitor my drives average a carry of 267 and a roll out to 290+ my bad carries were in the 245 range. The range where i normally hit balls has the farthest pin at 275, even my worst shots end up rolling up there, my good ones land there and usually run into back net. And lets not forget that the average pga pro almost never lets it rip with everything they have, they get paid to keep it straight, i dont, so i let it rip! There are a great number of people who can outdrive pga players, just dont have the complete game. Thats why there are long drive competitions, dont think ive ever seen a pga player involved in one though, so, before we compare ourselves to pga players lets take in all the facts.

Not sure what your doing wrong with chips but what changed my game was when i started using lower lofted clubs like pitch, 9,8,etc I know for me if im thinking nice high flop im gonna usually get too handsy and blow it, i can do as well as anyone at the practice green, but we all know our mindset changes when it counts. Even if you have to go over a trap, your pitching wedge will suffice, if its tucked and you roll little past whats the harm? If you flub your flop now where are you? Not to generalize everyone but i feel that most of us amateurs will b better off leaving the lob wedge to a full shot say from like 40-70 yds where theres only setup changes and not much to do with hand manipulation

And obviously there are courses where the tees dont make a big difference, a better test is one that does make a difference, where it really changes your carry requirements, and changes trouble placement, i believe most course are setup to help you from the whites and challenge you from the tips.

Ya maybe when teeing up for other than driver try just putting tee so only head is above ground, it may help u to not think about hitting up at it, it would be more like a nice fluffy lie, works for me anyway, im sure its a mental thing.

I agree with vangator, i too am usually single and just play from where the rest of the group is, you just have to understand your game and play accordingly. Plus, if its your regular course its good to mix things up occasionally.

1st of all, to hatchman, i apologize if it came across as a 200 yd drive was bad, i was aiming more at the people who think they can hit it 335 but never do, or maybe they hit a few good ones at range and assume thats their game. Ive been working with my dad who would take a driver on a 170 par 3, now hes gone down to a 5 wood and his driver is going the best it ever has, averaging in the 200 range, but he still understands that he cant play the back tees, and he certainly knows he doesnt have to wait from 280 out. I play with people all the time who are short but straight and score well, i wish some of the younger players could learn a thing or 2 from them, but unfortunately theres too much testosterone involved. And for ryan, i agree on the short par 3 thing which is why i like to switch things up sometimes and play back on par 3s theres no rule that you have to play the same tee for every hole, unless theres other circumstances, ie bets or competition, etc.

Sorry, that was for sante two gloves, my bad

Hey gunther, i bet you play better with wife and from whites. Just losing the macho pressure of your buds should do wonders, happens to all of us when we're with certain people, we get caught up in a game that takes us away from our own, good luck, interested in outcome

unfortunately, a lot of times they are holding people up, not all, but quite a bit, theyre spending too much time looking for their balls, etc. Sometimes we dont realize but little things like this can alter the pace of the whole day, its like someone hitting their brakes on the hywy, if you were in a helicopter you would see a reaction to that for up to 5 miles, just a simple brake light, no real incident. Its a thought process that continues all the way to green, ie people are always coming up short or crooked because they go to range and get in a rythym with no consequences and hit their 9iron 150, then on the course with the pressure of one shot they either come up short or try so hard it goes off line. And dont you just love the ones who drive it 200 then wait for green to clear from 280, just lay up already! Or just hit your 3wood and in the event of a miracle and you maybe roll up near green, just apologize. And then theres the ones that are just clueless, they hit their ball then drive 10yds for their partners ball, or they take off, you hit, then they drive back 100yds thinking your ball is thiers, argh! Guess i got off subject and on rant, oh well!

Back in the day the average driver was 43", then the marketing teams said people want to hit longer, so now theyre coming out like 46" then they figured if it was lighter you could swing it faster, so now theyre down to like 49grams, i think thats the lowest ive seen. Problem is, we're not robots setup specifically to hit a certain club, so when you put in the human factor things tend to go differently. We will inadvertently begin altering our swing to fit a club, especially after we pay good money for it. The best of the best continue doing what they do best by keeping the lenght maintainable, and the weight up. I believe the average lenght on pga is 44.5 and im not sure but i would bet none of them are using a super lite shaft, just a guess but i feel safe guessing none are under 75grams. Theres a point where distance and control meet at a happy medium and its up to each individual to find their happy place. That being said, there is a place for lighter, perhaps someone with slow swing speed, good tempo, etc. but for anyone with fast speed like 100+ i bet you will be better suited to heavier shafts

fairway isnt the only answer, of course most of us need more help with aproach and overall scoring, thats a given for the average player, did your 71% faiways put you in the best position? A lot of times for me when i use my driver on a short par 4 i end up with a shot im not comfortable with, which is why i'll take my 3-4 iron off the tee, then have a shot in with a short iron that i can be aggressive with, rather than a think about too much shot. Ive tried it several times on a course i play often, the results are indisputable, the times i play safe off the tee my score is significantly better. Plus, if you need extra work with your irons theres no better place than on the course, the range means nothing, you need that pressure of actual play time.

Guess that was my point from the begining, if you move up you can play a more controllable club off the tee. Im not refering to any league where its predetermined where you play from, im talking regular players who simply choose to play back so they can say "i played from the tips" and can bareley break 100, they could easily be looking at breaking 90 with better course management, which starts before you ever stick the tee in the ground.

From what i gather, the kuro kage 60 is a very high torque shaft, 4.0 id say it would be a miracle if you were able to square the head up at 108mph without manipulating swing, im willing to bet if you tried a heavier, like 75g, low torque, stiffer tip shaft you will have much more success. You dont have to spend a lot for a good shaft, the proforce v2 75g is only $60 i bought my setup on ebay, $60 shaft. $40 head, for $100 i have a $360 driver. also, i would consider a little more loft, the lower the loft the more dispersion your gonna get, and finally, try different hand placement on shaft, i.e. Play with lenght, choke up and see where u make best contact, i think the pros average is like 44.5 or so, and they know what theyre doing, and do it consistently. Manufacturers want to say theyre the longest so they put longer shafts in these days, if you happen to catch right, it will be long, but for most it just means longer off center, as the head gets further from you, your swing will fall to a more flatter plane, more baseball like, usually placing the toe too high, setting you up for a pull or hook, so the compensations begin. Im 6' at about 105mph, i have 10.5 proforce v2 75g stiff at 44" my flight is a high draw that rolls on average to 305 on course. You have to find the sweet spot more often which will help your smash factor.

That was just for the sake of my example, 90% of the time im hitting a wedge on par 4s, my average drive is around the 305 area. The example was for the people that dont even drive it 200

Well, generally my bad shots are thin, so they end up rolling out pretty good

People, unless your close to a scratch golfer, why do you insist on playing from the back tees? If you wanna improve your score and have more fun, just move up! My average bad drive still goes like 275 and i play forward, i see it all the time, most of the time if your even lucky enough to reach the fairway, its pretty crooked anyway, would you rather hit driver, 3wood, than 40 yard pitch, or driver, 6 iron, at worse little chip? Maybe its just me but it seems really stupid to set yourself up for failure right from the start!