SquirrelNutz

Haha. Glad you are enjoying hammering my pitches iacas. Its been good for me too. Jack Nicklaus was one of the slowest players ever, yet I don't ever recall him being on the clock on the final day of a major. Seems to me like the USGA did a better job of staying out of it in those days and letting the players decide the championship. Both 2016 US Opens were a disaster on Sunday because the USGA got too involved in refereeing.

Hi iaccas. Good point, but it's those in contention on Sunday that are grinding the hardest, trying to figure out all the windy variables. Those playing ahead that have already lost their dream of winning the US Open are much less likely to grind. Grinding mentally, especially if you are leading or within a couple shots of the lead takes extra time, especially on a windy day like yesterday. How bout those Penguins? Congrats, they were clearly the best team in the 2016 Stanley Cup playoffs. Best defense despite not having 1 of the best goalies, that usually doesn't happen. My favorite Penguin championship was when Badger Bob Johnson was coaching in Pittsburgh. Badger Bob was so good he even won a Stanley Cup in Calgary. Used to go to all the Badger hockey games during my Wisconsin years.

Almost everybody on both the PGA and LPGA tours, especially on super fast major greens on a windy day like yesterday, does a lot of backing off and restarting their putting routine, due to the fact that wind gusts greatly move putts on fast greens. Often this causes the player putting to go over the allotted time. It only becomes a concern for the player if their group is on the clock. That is unfair if you were not the reason your group fell behind, but still got put on the clock, as was the case with Seo at the 2011 US Open. The likelihood of a final day injustice like 2011 increases when they play in groups of 3 like the LPGA and decreases when they play in groups of 2 like the PGA.

Hi Gunther. The way the final groups went south immediately after being put on the clock in both the 2011 and 2016 US Opens is why I think it was too much for the ladies to handle, even though they are pro's. Should they have handled it better? Yes. Should the USGA allow extra time for reading the much faster than usual US Open greens and trying to wait for wind gusts to settle down. Again I say yes. Just my opinion.

Hi Newt. You are correct of course, it's clearly speculation my part regarding the caddies. But it's not speculation that the USGA rules folks are getting more involved in recent US Open's than in the past and messed up both the 2011 and 2016 Woman's US Open's and the 2016 Men's US Open. It became a tainted victory for Lang yesterday as it was for Ryu in 2011, and both became flawed championships. Let the players decide the winner, not the referees. You hear that all the time in other sports regarding over-zealous refs, but it's a new problem the USGA must improve upon by revising some of their sacred rules. Just my opinion, not saying I am correct, but I think Fox Sports might be lobbying for the same thing after both their 2016 US Open broadcasts became so ultimately frustrating and unsatisfying for their viewers on both 2016 US Open Sunday's.

Hi Boop. Theoretically, that is true. But in reality, being informed they were now on the clock clearly created a stressful situation for every member of the final group yesterday. Pro golfers are not used to being on the clock and having to worry about how much time they take to read a tricky green. I ask the question again, where were the caddies when they were really needed yesterday to explain the meaning of being on the clock and to help calm Park, Ko & Ji yesterday? A good caddy needs to have a thorough understanding of the rules and be prepared do some mental/psychological coaching in critical situations.

Haha. Good one Dave. Ya, agreed, thanks much to Scotland for Scotch Whisky and Golf, both great contributions to the world. Not sure about the bagpipes, but they do sound good at a funeral.

Yes, Lydia always seems very gracious in defeat or victory and even had the honesty to say she felt bad because it was searching for her ball in the hazard at 9 that put their group of 3 over the edge in terms of falling behind. A touch of class not to throw some of the blame at Park for her pictionary delays, at least not in the Fox/Lydia interview I saw at the end of their 18 hole rollercoaster ride. Lydia, like Jack Nicklaus, is a slow thoughtful player. Great to see Lydia leading the way out if the dark ages of no fun, no laughs Scottish golf to modern have fun with the game and the spectators Gary McCord, David Feherty, JoAnne Carner type of entertaining fun golf.

The on the clock rule would be fair if the 3 players in the group were playing as a team. But since they are playing as individuals, how can it be fair to put the group as a whole on the clock when in some cases, like the 2011 US Open, it's only 1 of the 3 in the group causing them to fall behind? This year it was probably a combination of Park & Ko causing the final group to fall behind, so not as controversial as in 2011, unless you ask Ji, the unfortunate 3rd member of the Park/Ko grouping. Ji was also solidly in contention prior to going on the clock. Kudos to Fox for the graphic showing Park, Ko & Ji as all +2 since being put on the clock and for not being afraid to criticize the USGA.

But what about those in the groups of 3 that were not playing slow? I followed Seo all the way in the final round of her 2010 victory at La Costa. Seo was relaxed and elegant, but not overly slow. It was another player in Seo's group at the 2011 US Open that was struggling and getting into all kinds of trouble that caused the Seo group to fall behind. How was being put on the clock with the lead late in the 2011 US Open fair to Seo and the other player in her group that were not playing overly slow?

Another question I have relating to the on the clock controversy is why Park as the leading winner on the Korean tour, and not knowing English, didn't bring her regular Korean caddy to California for the US Open? Obviously after so many wins in Korea, Park could have afforded to bring her regular caddy. The whole drawing pictures thing to communicate between Park and her caddy must have seemed likely to create a slow play problem and cost her some shots from the start. All the pictionary delays were not fair to anyone in Park's groupings of 3.

I think the fact that the final group in both the 2011 and 2016 US Open's panicked after being put on the clock indicates there is not enough communication between the USGA and the players about what is expected if you get put on the clock. In both 2011 and 2016, the Korean's lack of understanding led to jogging/running. Where were the caddies when they were needed most? Anyone who ever started jogging/running in between shots to finish ahead of a storm or darkness knows it's almost impossible to play well when your heart rate gets way up there.

I think the Fox announcers didn't like the 2016 on the clock controversy either, there were multiple comments by Zinger, Juli, Joe, Brad and others basically saying things like it's hard enough to control your emotions and breathing and adrenaline on a Sunday in the final group of a US Open even without being on the clock. Hi Valley. I agree with you that most LPGA players rely way too much on their caddies. Lang asking her brother over and over and over if he agreed with her shot strategy started to make me pull for Nordqvist in the playoff. I like old style golfers like Juli Inkster who make their own strategy decisions.

Hi Dave. Not as slow as she wants, there has to be limits, but in these in both the 2011 and 2016 US Open's, I think the USGA should have given the final group more time to catch up before putting them on the clock. Note correction from my original post, it was 2011, not 2010 that Ryu won the US Open as a result of Seo's group panicking after being put on the clock.

Hi Boogie. Yes, because we are now in the age of recording & fast forwarding, I think 6 hours is ok for the pro's. In person, also ok. I think that final round at Carlsbad following Lydia this year was closer to 5 hours, but I hated to see it end, even 8 hours to savor Lydia's relaxed, happy, thoughtful game would have been just fine with me.

I don't see professional slow play as a problem. On TV, almost everyone records so they can fast forward thru the commercials, lining up putts, etc. In person, it gives everyone a chance to catch their breath. When I followed Lydia Ko all the way on Sunday this year in her victory at the Kia Classic in Carlsbad, I was glad the pace wasn't faster so I could get to each of the 18 greens fast enough to see the approach shots. I think most of the other's in Lydia Ko's fun and relaxed army that day would agree. Slow play by amateurs is another matter, an inherent big problem with the game.

Yes, agreed that the Korean's reacted poorly to being put on the clock. No need to jog. Language barriers contributed to the unnecessary panic. Lydia Ko is fluent in English, but only 19 and inexperienced, still Lydia should have taken charge and put a stop to the panic. It was even worse in 2010 with the Korean ladies actually running down the fairway after their tee shots. Koreans in general tend to play slower, more relaxed, more thoughtful about every shot, similar to the way Jack Nicklaus played the game. American women already have the home country advantage, with 3 of the 5 majors in the USA and 0 in Asia. I would like to see the USGA be a bit more accommodating to our foreign guests. Would like seeing others opinions on 1 of my my main points in my original post, that it's unfair to penalize all 3 golfers when it's mostly just 1 of the 3 or even 2 of the 3, that has created the problem.

The final group of 3 being put on the clock on the final day of a US Open is a severe and unfair penalty. In both US Opens, 2010 and 2016, the tournament leader, Hee Kyung Seo in 2010 and Sung Hyun Park in 2016, were new to USGA golf, started playing way too fast and immediately faltered. In both cases it was mostly another player in the group of 3 that caused the group to fall behind. In 2016 it was the Lydia Ko problem at #9, everyone searching for her ball in the hazard that led to the on the clock. In fairness, Park and her American caddie having to draw pictures to communicate and consult charts to change yards to meters certainly contributed to falling behind. All 3 in the group were in solid contention yesterday before the clock warning, and all 3 played at +2 and did a lot of jogging and hurrying during the time they were on the clock. A severe and tournament outcome changing penalty for sure, as it was in 2010. In both cases, the USGA failed to give the final Sunday grouping enough time to catch up after a problem hole and in both cases it unfairly changed the outcome of what until the USGA intervened, had been great tournaments.

Last post for me, which I'm sure will make most here happy. I still think its a bad rule, that could be made better by adding that whenever possible, the player must take his drop in a lie similar to where he was to begin with. From primary rough to 2nd cut or fairway not allowed unless there are no other alternatives. Thought this might be a friendly forum because most of the people I have met on the golf course we're friendly. Gotta stay consistent in my last post by going even farther off topic. Greatest college basketball player of all time, Bill Walton, playing 2nd percussion again with Electric Waste Band tomorrow evening at Ocean Beach Street Fair. I did fact check this one, I was at Winston's for the EWB show Monday night when they announced it. Saw my 1st Tommy Castro & The Painkillers show last night. Wow, that San Francisco bluesman can really play guitar. Peace. Thanks naturelover for the friendly reply in my Oakmont US worthy? thread. I will yield to the vast majority on that thread and agree Oakmont is a worthy US Open course, even without the trees. One things for sure, the last LPGA major in WA state was a great tournament, while the last PGA major at Oakmont was 1 of the worst majors ever, thanks partly to the Thurs rain, but mostly because it was messed up by the DJ ball moving controversy and crazy wait til tournaments over to decide if DJ is penalized. Peace. SquirrelNutz out.

I get your points Chilli, but the cream did rise to the top at Sahalee, with Lydia Ko losing in a playoff and the Thai golfer that had won 3 or 4 straight LPGA events, missing the playoff by 1 stroke. Sahalee worked well for an LPGA major. Beautiful golf courses make me happy.

How about TPC Sawgrass? Seems like that golf course deserves a major. I love that Sawgrass is an exciting course and so spectator friendly. Seems like a lot of the major courses are not spectator friendly, that was definitely true at Torrey Pines, beautiful scenery, dramatic tournament won by an injured Tiger, but not good viewing areas for the spectators.

Thanks for explaining the principle Fourputt. Wow, the rule requires an investigation? Sounds like it was written by that hilarious Catch 22 character, Milo Minderbinder. I thought everyone wanted golf play to be faster? I am guessing that rule was written before the USGA started making greens so fast for their majors.

I gotta admit to limited knowledge about the principles behind some golf rules. Principles of Golf Rules 101 sounds like it would be one of the most boring classes ever. I am sure Lee Trevino, Seve Ballesteros, Chi Chi Rodriguez and some of the other most fun loving, entertaining golfers of all time would have ditched most of the classes to play golf and failed the class. So what is the principle behind the ball moving on the green penalty? I like simple, logical rules and to me if a player didn't make contact with the ball and it moves, just put it back where it was with no penalty makes sense.

I disagree Martyn. I think there are some well intentioned but stupid rules that should be revised in just about any sport. Same thing with nations and their laws. Love your humor in signing off as another pompous jerk. Regards, Ignorant golf coach