birlyshirly

I didn't look hard for this, and there might have been even better evidence if I could be bothered to dig, but here you go. This is an amateur recording a variation of 4 or 5 mph on iron shots (PW and 5 iron respectively) across a small sample size of less than 20 shots. http://thedanplan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Dan-Plan-2013-04-21-Multi-Group-Report.pdf My point? If you see variation like that on a small number of driving range swings, it's perfectly reasonable to expect occasional larger variations.

So what does "synced up" mean, if it doesn't mean extra clubhead speed? Does it mean delofted by 6*? And, if you know Hammer's game somewhat, what's your estimation of the limits of variation in his clubhead speed?

It seems to be your point that it's impossible that Hammer hit a freak 9 iron 15 yards further than his usual from a driving range mat as a result of increased swingspeed. I just don't think it's as outlandish as you seem to.

Yes - but there's always the possibility that the GS95 is the "right" shaft for you - but you need a swingweight adjustment to make better contact. Just out of curiousity - the Hogan Apex was the first lightweight steel shaft (maybe about 115g?), and Hogan made their irons a 1/2" longer as a result. Did you compare the lengths of the clubs you were testing?

Broadly, I'd agree - with perhaps a slightly different emphasis. I'd argue that identifying physical limitations should help you understand your compensations/flaws, and maybe leave some alone on the basis that you state. Swing within your means.

Here's the first data that came to hand. Sorry if you consider it crappy measuring equipment. [URL=http://www.andrewricegolf.com/2012/09/driver-test-old-vs-new/]http://www.andrewricegolf.com/2012/09/driver-test-old-vs-new/[/URL] Maybe Andrew started out cautiously and was really cranking out the last couple of drives - though that would be an odd way to conduct a test. My point? That we're not machines and there will be some variation from swing to swing.

I don't believe there's anything that can be stated as a "rule" about weight of shaft - a lot is going to come down to personal preference. Correct me if I'm wrong, but whilst the GS95 is ultralight steel - isn't it only mid-weight compared to graphite shafts that are increasingly being touted for irons? Tom Wishon recommends adding experimental lead tape in increments and using impact tape, or a marker pen, to see if (and how much) added headweight yields the most consistent impact. Ping Eye 2s had stiff, but light in weight by the standards of the day, stock shafts. ZZ lite - geddit?

[QUOTE name="iacas" url="/t/72283/distance-club-head-speed-or-technique/18#post_946511"] If such a quote exists, then I'd suggest that has a lot to do with the equipment they were using at the time or something else. I highly doubt that sometimes a player just randomly swings an iron 10 MPH faster. [/QUOTE] As I said, you'd expect better players to be more consistent in their clubhead speed. Then again, I've seen very good players vary 4 - 5 mph in the course of only a dozen swings, so the occasional spike somewhere between 5 and 10 mph doesn't seem outlandish to me, even for a pro. Lihu - I'm sorry if you thought I meant that you'd misread the display - I meant only that the sensor misread the clubhead speed. You have the same unit I have - and for what it's worth, I have read online that it does base its readings at least in part on measured ballspeed. I know mine records much higher speeds when I hit balls than when I just make the fastest swings I can muster with no ball. I also have the occasional freak reading like yours! Do you think it's generally MORE reliable than the SSR units? You can open it up and calibrate it if you think its readings are consistently out.

Hmm - I'm not saying technique doesn't come into it. I'm just saying that it seems sensible to me to rule out poor physical mobility first. In my own case, I think I could make a "full" shoulder turn, but right now I'd do it by overturning my hips. I don't think my hips are sliding. Of course, we could then argue about what makes for "over turned hips". But that's my point - I think the physical screens make for a good, objective measure of physical capability. And if I pass basic physical benchmarks, then I can worry about technique down the line. What I do know is this. In the last 40-odd years, I've done close to zero golf-specific fitness work and very minimal stretching or flexibility work. I don't get to play enough golf for that to count. I have measurably poor flexibility for just about any activity, regardless of whether you see golf as an athletic endeavour or not. But I can't think of another sport where flexibility wouldn't count as part of your "fitness" to practice any part of the required technique. Heck, I have flexibility issues just riding a bike. So given what I know about my current level of agility - it seems sensible to me to check that avenue out before worrying about a bent left arm, or indeed many other positional niceties. But for all I know, your typical students come to you with better flexibility than I currently enjoy - and it usually IS a technique issue. Again, that's what I see being the purpose and value of the screens.

Depends on what you mean by "better player". It stands to reason that better players are going to be more consistent in their swing speed. But I'm positive there's a Nicklaus quote out there, I'm thinking Golf My Way, about the occasional long iron that feels effortless and flies like nobody's business - and I didn't get the impression he was talking about flier lies.

I don't know you - but in most cases it would be safe to assume that a 128mph hybrid is a misread. As far as I can make out, some radar devices actually use measured ballspeed in an algorithm to determine clubhead speed. All that said, spikes in speed of up to 10mph would be consistent with the occasional shot that travels an extra 20 yards or so. I'm sure we've all had those experiences on the course, whether or not there's been a radar there to verify the speed.

Is that (what I put in bold) really the consensus? That's not the impression I have, based on my own reading. I see more teachers online who seem to basically accept that beyond a basic level of competence , clubhead speed is a physical gift rather than a technique to be taught. And believe me, some of these guys, if they thought they could sell clubhead speed, they'd be selling it by the bucket load. Most teachers IMO (and yes, I'm generalising) appear to focus on technique that will deliver solid ballstriking and impact conditions - which is the way to maximise your distance for any given clubhead speed. There are some people out there talking about stretching and physical conditioning - but that doesn't really answer your question about the occasional shot that appears out of the blue and flies 10 - 20 yards further. Don't discount the possibility that you really did find some extra clubhead speed that you can't usually access. I've practiced with a swing speed radar and do see occasional spikes in measured speed.

Probably true - the bit in bold. Nothing against a My Swing thread - but that's surely not the answer to my question. If poor mobility is the root cause of a bent left arm (mine or the OP's) - then surely you would test that by way of physical screens, not a swing video. I haven't been through TPI - though I'd like to. There are also some well-regarded general physical screens here - http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2011-09/combine-tests#slide=1 For lots of reasons, I wouldn't worry myself about a bent left arm unless and until I could pass the basic physical mobility tests (and right now, I'm a clear fail on 3 so I've got work to do).

Absolutely speaking from personal experience in terms of how much of an effort I need to make to keep my left arm straight through the top of backswing and transition. Obviously there are good player counter-examples - or at least players who I don't expect are having to fight to maintain the extension of their left elbow. Of the factors you mention though - I don't see my grip or alignment causing the problem. Core strength? I'm not sure I see the relevance - would you mind elaborating? I find it hard to see past lack of flexibility as the fundamental issue - I'd imagine mobility or freedom of movement is more influential on sequencing, rather than the other way round. But again, if you see things differently, I'd like to hear about it.

Is there any reason, other than a fundamental lack of flexibility, why the left arm should bend appreciably prior to impact? I know I have never consciously pursued a bent left arm at the top of my backswing. I have also found it takes a ridiculous effort to keep it straight and hit shots with any sort of speed. In my own case, I can see a longterm commitment to stretching having a greater effect than any longterm commitment to trying to change this part of my technique.