cda77

I was quoting EXACTLY what he said about me. If you notice, I haven't made any of this personal. I have stated my arguments in a manner that at least I believe are accurate, logical and correct. What I have gotten back is name calling and asked to have my opinion squashed. Hey this is your site, if you want me to leave say so. But at least recognize, I believe I am correct just as much as you believe you are correct. My proof is my experience. The fact that many on this thread disagree with me doesn't make them right. BTW it does work, put a single on the 1st tee with 36 foursomes in front of him and they all let him play through just as I have stated, they will lose very little time. Just because you and others disagree, doesn't make you right, anymore than it makes me right. The problem when it comes to slow play and following rules is you condone people on the course to arbitrarily decided what is correct. As I have pointed out several times, just because you can see there are two or three foursomes in front you and you ASSUME there is no where for a twosome to go, this could be completely false and should not be up to some guy on the 6th tee to decide. OR it could be 100% accurate and by following the rule of etiquette you could cost yourself half a lousy hole by letting someone play through. Now notice, there is no personal attacks in my response. I am not calling you a troll or any of the other names I have been called in this thread just because you don't agree with my point of view. I am just simply stating with logic why I believe I am 100% correct and the rules of golf etiquette agree with me, not with you. But again, I admit I may be wrong, I have also admitted and agreed with several to disagree. Slower players move backwards while faster players move forward, that is the logic behind the rule and why it works, Want me gone, just say so or shut my account off, but at least have the guts to recognize, just because you think I am wrong, doesn't make you right.

You see Jimmy, that is the entire point. What would it cost you by doing that? You punish the people behind, including yourself instead of addressing the issue which is the group in front not letting people play through.

Jeez Jimmy, what is it you don't comprehend or is it that you just want to be argumentative? The rule, suggestion or just the decent thing to do is let faster players play through, been that way for a hundred years, still works. If that makes me a troll so be it. It works 100% of the time as long as everybody follows the rule, that is a fact.

It is not cumulative is cost you 5 minutes, nothing else. You will wait 5 minutes on me and never be held up any longer

I disagree. Sorry. The rule states faster players to play through. Doesn't state anything about keeping pace with the group in front of you. Speed is relative and if left to someone else to judge, it doesn't work. To me a 4 hour round might be way off pace and slow, to you it might be extremely fast or comfortable So if I come upon your group, your thought is hey we are playing fast, no reason to let him play through. That's not the intent of the rule.

No you aren't 5 of us are on the tee box. We can all 5 hit or just let me hit. So just I hit. Assume I am a decent player, how long does it take me to get to my ball? 2 minutes? Now I wait for the group to clear the green. Another 3 minutes?? I hit, I am gone you never see me again. By the time you hit your tees shots and clear that hole you will come up to the next tee in time to tee off. No or little waiting and I am long gone.

And that is fine, I don't have any problem agreeing to disagree. But from experience, I can tell you the time does not accumulate, as you can see in another one of my posts. I zip right through and only cost each group a couple of minutes.

NO, they do not, the time does not accumulate. I am a single and meet up with your foursome on a tee box. The foursome in front of you just hit their approach shots and are heading to the green. You let me go through. I hit go to my ball, wait for the foursome to clear the green and I am gone, you will never see me again. (assuming all groups ahead follow the rule) By the time you get to your tee shots, you have lost 5 minutes. In the mean time, I am on the next tee playing through the next group in the same manner. By the time you finsh your hole and onto the next tee, I am long gone and the group in front of you is in the fairway hitting their next shots.

You have the nerve to call me smug. How many courses have I worked at? How many have I managed? You do not know, do you.

For your first paragraph, that is your personal choice. For your second paragraph, you are speculating. That single can get through your group and the next 10 groups and be off to the races. Forget all that, let me ask you this. What would it cost you to let the single play through? If they get stuck in front of you, what did it really cost you?? Half a hole, 5 minutes. But if each subsequent group follows the rule, (it's a rule not a comment) that single is not being held up and it costs you 3-5 minutes.

The pro shop will say they should let me play through. It only costs each group the specific time it takes me to play through them, 3-5 minutes, nothing more. The time does not accumulate. I have and do play as a single often and zip right through group after group and thankfully at courses where people let faster players play through.

Why? It costs you only 5 minutes to let them go, no matter what is in front of you. You are judging whether to let them play through by what you can see. What if the course is wide open in front of the second foursome you can see? It would cost you 5 minutes, the foursome in front of you five minutes and the next foursome 5 minutes and BOOM that twosome is gone off to the races, done in 2:45.

LOL, I am not holding anybody up, that's what you can't get through your head. It's impossible for me to be the cause of slow play if I let faster players play through. It doesn't not create a rolling roadblock, it sends slower players backwards where they belong and faster players ahead of them. NOW you bring rangers into the scenario, if a ranger cannot recognize a slow group that is not letting others play through, that ranger should be fired. I would never be asked to pick up because I would never be the cause of a hold up, BECAUSE I let faster players through. You cannot see that letting people play through IS the solution.

I agree 100%. Maybe what I should have said is I can tell when I pull the flag and look back and see four people taking naps in the fairway. And you are right about the pace of the group behind you being masked. I guess I am being stubborn because somewhere ahead is a group or groups holding everyone else up. I look at it like ready golf, if everyone would participate golf would be faster for everyone. However, honestly, in your scenario above, even if I wasn't sure, I would still offer because I know the worst that can happen is it costs me half a hole. Because even if the groups speed is being masked, if they are keeping up with me, they are also keeping up with the group in front of me, which can only cost me half a hole in time.

I can tell, can't you? I can tell if the group behind me is playing faster golf than my group. I have read enough of your posts to know `100% for certain you can tell too. If I see the group behind me is striping every tee shot and hitting every green and my group is spraying and looking for balls, pretty easy to figure.

And you read the rule of, "play the balls where it lies" UNLESS you decide there is wiggle room in the rule.

OK, so under your thinking, if the first 5 or 6 groups off of the day are 6 hour groups, everybody suffers because look, there's no place to go. Would you like to be group 7? The beauty of the rule is in it's simplicity. If people behind you play faster golf, let them through.

I really don't care what any of you think of me. Your math is incorrect. It's not 3 x 12. It's 3 for each group that let's me play through. Call me an ass, a troll, an instigator, whatever you want. HOWEVER: Here is the rule you will see posted on almost every scorecard and course in the country: ALLOW faster groups to play through. There is no ambiguity. It does not say ONLY if there is X space in front of you or only if YOU think it's OK. The ONLY reason there is no where to go, is somewhere in front of you, there is a group NOT letting people play through. Someone, like people on this thread, that have decided for themselves how to interpret the rule. If the first group off of the day plays a 6 hour round and doesn't let anyone play through, the 10th group off is going to have a 6 hour round. If the first group off plays a 6 hour round but let's everybody through when they catch up, that 10th groups round will have substantial time reduced. However, many people and their questionable math skills think this would result in the 10th groups round being 6:30, nonsense.

As I suspected, this sums up everything I need to know about you are your golf etiquette. Punish the single instead of following the etiquette rules and allowing the play through. It would cost you all of 3 minutes to let the single go, but instead you dictate how things work on your course This isn't about 'rights' it's about etiquette. Manners and politeness on the golf course.

So hypothetical question. You think the course is packed with foursomes. On the third tee box, a single catches you. The foursome ahead of you is walking to the green. Do you let the single through?

I guess we will agree to disagree. But rest assured, anytime you come up behind me on the course I will offer to let you play through, regardless of what is ahead of me, both what I can and cannot see. What is ahead of me is 100% irrelevant in my opinion. It's not my place to judge, it's simply my place to offer to allow groups faster than mine to play through. If they get stuck right in front of me, I lose half a hole, that's all. BUT if they get stuck it's 100% because others are instilling their judgement instead of simply following the rule.

Again you are trying to find a way to justify your point of view, period. I could give you many examples, but it's a waste of time. You look at the etiquette rule from the incorrect point of view, IMO. You are trying to find a reason to NOT let people play through instead of just using common sense and let anyone play through who is playing faster than you. If every group on the course let faster groups through, your 5 hour round would be cut way down. Instead people attempt to justify with, there is no where to go. That is bs, If every group adheres to the rule, that single or twosome would move right through everyone in front of them, until they ran into someone like you.

I am not giving you a lecture. How you break golf etiquette is your business. The rule is simple and states let faster groups play through. You are searching for justification, the circumstances always warrant letting faster groups play through asap.

If there is no place to go, then they will see that an not hit into you. If there is a hole open in front of you and you don't let them through because YOU think there is no place to go, then IMO you are violating golf etiquette. If your reasoning is soon you will catch back up, A: that is an assumption and B: so what? If you catch back up then the most it will cost you is 1/2 a hole of time. It's like the left lane on an expressway. If everyone would treat it as a passing lane, which it is, and immediately merge right after you pass someone, all traffic moves faster, as in the German Autobahn. IMO always let faster groups play through, it will also be less stressful on you.