bobbob

Okay, it might not be the most reliable, but I really don't have any reason to believe anyone would provide false information. Check out this page in particular, which is where I based my claims for my first argument above from. http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/928718-big-break-florida-amelia-island/page__st__360 The posts are: http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/928718-big-break-florida-amelia-island/page__st__360#entry8858413 http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/928718-big-break-florida-amelia-island/page__st__360#entry8858475 http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/928718-big-break-florida-amelia-island/page__st__360#entry8858601

I think I read about it on some other BB forum. Maybe this one http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/928718-big-break-florida-amelia-island/

As a person, I would really hate to be around Mary. She seems to lack any manners on and off the course and many of her quotes have been very insulting and degrading towards others. I don't think I need to repeat all of the things Mary has said or done throughout the series. However there are a few things that we should consider before we continually bash Mary: 1) Mary's "personality" may had something to do with exaggerations from Golf Channel. Remember, many of our perceptions of Mary come from the interviews. In many of the interviews, Golf Channel gives the ladies excessive amounts of alcohol to "loosen them up". This may cause people to say things that they normally may not say. In addition, Golf Channel only airs about one to minutes of each player's interview/confessional footage when it actually takes upwards of an hour to shoot. Since they are showing such a small sample of the total interviews, they can piece together different things and cause the interviews to be misconstrued. Several examples of this have been seen in past seasons, where player comments were clearly put out of place purposely to make a point and exaggerate something. 2) Despite the antics, when it comes down to it, Mary has not shown to be that bad of a golfer. Yes, she is very streaky, but she has had her share of good shots and clearly outplayed Tonya in this week's elimination challenge. I know that many of you guys wanted Tonya to win but in the end, I want the person who plays the better golf to win and in this case, Mary clearly hit the better shots. Talk aside, Mary really hasn't shown to be a weak link. She may be cocky, but I don't have a major problem with it if she says shes going to win a challenge and actually wins it. Again, Mary is most certainly not my favorite player on this season of the Big Break by any means a, but I just want you guys to see her in a different light because there may be a reason she's doing what she's doing.

Surprise, surprise. Tonya is eliminated. She was clearly outmatched by all the other 3 on her team tonight, hitting two really atrocious pitch shots and losing to Mary by two shots on two of the easiest holes on the golf course. Other notes On the par 5 17th, it said the hole was 465 yards, but they only had 165-170 yard approaches. And it didn't seem to be too downwind either because Tonya actually hit a hybrid on the approach around 180 yards (10 yards over green). So either Tonya has really weird distance distribution (300 driver, 180 hybrid) or Big Break is really messing up the yardages (perhaps purposely to make the scores look better) and the hole actually played around 400 yards. Also, is anyone else annoyed at how Kristi and Fiamma seem to be lucking out and gaining immunity every single show despite not hitting many good shots at all?

Well, many of the guys in recent seasons of the Big Break were already like that: players that are around scratch but don't have much playing experience and have another job to make ends meet. And chances are, these players were eliminated quite early on in the series. This isn't really anything new. However, it is true that only a few of the players were like this, and most of the players were full time professional golfers.

Looks wise, this is just about the worst Big Break ever. Of the remaining players, only Renee and Fiamma look remotely decent. On the other hand, Mary, Kristi, Sadena, and Tonya are especially ugly. More ugly golfers than decent looking ones=not a good formula for viewers, especially coupled with the bad play. (though the bad play isn't reallly anything new and I still think overall the play is still a bit better than Atlantis. But out of 12 golfers here there are like 3 hot ones and 5 ugly ones compared to Atlantis where of the 12 5-6 were hot and only around 2 were ugly.

You think this was bad? On Big Break Mexico several of the par 5s played to be around 400 yards downwind and some of them still made bogeys. Overall, the play on this episode was pretty representative of the overall cast. You have the solid golfer (Sadena), the two that always seem to luck out and scrape by without much serious golf game (Fiamma and Kristi), the two that we know can play but have a hard time executing sometimes (we know they will show up, Renee did this episode) in Renee and Jackie, the streaky one that will always get by with some strong shots and some weak ones (Mary), and the hopeless ones that are just bound to get eliminated soon (Lindsay, Kylee, Tonya).

And it shouldn't matter at all whether I am a Big Break producer or not. I am just stating facts about their golf games and their results.

If I was a Big Break producer why would I be saying that they portrayed Mary incorrectly? I wouldn't have anything to bad to say about the show if I was a Big Break producer....

I'm not advocating for Mary either, I just don't think she is a bully as perceived on the show. Her golf game is not the best, but at least she can qualify for the Symetra tour, something many of the others including Tonya cannot do. Qualifying for a tour shows the player's overall body of work over numerous tournaments and thus is the best way to gauge a player's capabilities. Even though we are only picking a small sample size, you are more likely to get a good sample size from the player with a stronger body of work, and although Tonya has gotten a decent "sample size" so far, her luck will run out. I'm sure the debate will end in the next couple of weeks when Tonya gets eliminated...... The odds for winning at this point are: Jackie 40% Sadena 30% Renee 10% Mary 10% Everyone else 10% On a side note Jackie seems to be doing quite well at the Symetra tour event this week. (Although Renee and Mary not so much, at least they qualified)

But why would you assess by on show performance when you know it's such a small sample size? I remember in Greenbrier James Lepp said during his match with Brian Cooper "Anyone and really beat anyone on the Big Break because its such a small sample size of shots and you never know whats going to happen." I think that is a very true statement. We cannot know for sure what will happen, we can only predict. The on show results could be totally arbitrary, and thus are not a good indicator of future on show results. Better players tend to hit better shots and generally the better players still come out on top, but sometimes is a degree of randomness as to who plays well and who doesn't, and this may vary day to day. That is why we should not make predictions from what we see on TV solely, we should also factor in tournament results which are a far better indicator of golf game. And even if we do indeed assess the players based on their on show performance (which i find to be a ludicrous idea), Sadena would be at the top, not Tonya. Sadena won the first challenge in shows 1, 2 and 3 outright (placing 1st alone) and also was one of the four to win immunity in show 4. In other words, she has had money presented to her every episode and so far taken away $9,500. Tonya, on the other hand, has not actually won any of the first immunity challenges and has always had to play in the second immunity challenge. She hasn't even come close to earning any of the cash prizes either. So even you were to assess by on show performance, Tonya wouldn't fare very well either--she is one of the few that hasn't even contended for any of the early immunity/cash prizes. At this point, I am willing to bet that Tonya does not make the top 4. I am almost 100% sure the final 2 will be Sadena and Jackie, with an outside chance coming from Mary and Renee. Some of the others including Fiamma and Lindsay also have better chances than Tonya (both having won early immunity or cash prizes before). As regards to backgrounds and personalities--again, they are totally arbitrary. You could have a hardworking and mature mother who simply is not a good golfer and a big bully that is. I agree that a bully's attitude may be detrimental on a golf course, but I don't think you should judge a bully's golf game like that--if her attitude is indeed affecting her game then it will show in the shots/tournament results and you can go off of that--but dont bash them just because they are a bully. A bully who averages a 75 is not a worse golfer than someone else who also averages a 75. And also, I do actually believe Mary's bully personality is a little exaggerated. Many of her friends who also play on the Symetra tour have said she is a fun person to be around and serveral pictures show them having a good time together. Nothing indicates to me Mary is a bully in real life, and that is why I think her personality is "made up". I don't know why you are saying she is hateful and spiteful....shes just a little overweight.....

" First off, you talk about positions in a few tournaments but apparently forget that even the best players on the PGA tour have bad tournaments, miss cuts, etc.... " Whats ironic here is that you are the one assessing the players incorrectly by the few shots they hit on a show. Surely, surely a full 36 or 54 hole tournament result is a better gauge of a player's capabilities than a few shots to point circles on a green from 95 yards, don't you agree? Yes, I know about having a bad tournament but it is much more likely to have a few fluke shots than a fluke round or tournament. I am assessing the players based on about 200 shots, you are doing so based upon 10 shots hit in four episodes. Surely my stats are better indicators than your judgement based off of such a small sample size. " Despite having virtually given up golf for several years to raise kids, Tonya has shown skills that are on par with the better players on this show but more than that, I am watching not only the actual golf but also their body language and how they handle stress. From what I have seen, Tonya has been among the steadiest. Somebody pointed out that she is more mature than the others and that is true but regardless of the reason for it, thus far, she is handling the stress very well. Many of the others have not. This is why I think she wins it all. Sadena has shown the skills to win the game but she has also shown she can be rattled. When it gets to crunch time, the question will be whether she can keep it together or not. Mary is a joke. Sure, she can hit some shots but she is all about being a bully and that is her real game. I've noticed it is working on some players but not all of them. I predict that like most school yard bullies, Mary will fold when she ends up in an elimination challenge against someone who is not affected by her bullying tactics. Renee will be lucky to last another couple of shows. She is clearly bothered by the stresses of the show (which as someone else pointed out, are small potatoes compared to the LPGA tour) and since this is really happening over the course of a few days, not the weeks it takes us to see it, she doesn't have time to struggle now and improve later. IMHO, she doesn't stand a prayer of making the final show, let alone win the thing." You seem to be making giant inferences based off of the players' backgrounds and personalities. For example, Tonya is a mother and seems to be mature, or Mary has a intimidating, bully-like personality. But this has absolutely nothing to do with their golf games. Being a mother or being being intimidating have absolutely no correlation whatsoever to golf game. Plus, many of the personalities/dramas may be made up by Golf channel producers.

Quote: I don't know where you get your info from but according to the Golf Channel site, Tonya earned conditional status to the Ladies European Tour in 2010 (which she gave up because of pregnancy) and had 4 top tens on the Cactus Tour last year (as opposed to the info you are posting). So yeah, based on the competition, I think she probably has the game to win this. I really only see Lindsay and Jackie as having comparable resumes. Mary's whole game is based on intimidation and that is only going to carry her so far, especially since she is really very insecure, so under real stress, I expect her to fold. Sadena is showing some comparatively decent skills but a tendency to choke under pressure, whereas Tonya has managed to earn immunity on every show and seems largely unaffected by the stress of any particular shot so far. So yeah, Tonya remains my best guess as the ultimate winner. First of all, don't read too much into the Golf Channel bios--the info isn't very accurate at all. Though none of the stuff said is outright untrue, many things are exaggerated. For example, it said Courtney played on the Canadian Tour--turns out she played one tournament and got cut after shooting a 94. But yes, turns out it is true that Tonya did have a few top ten finishes on the Cactus tour last year, though sadly, those top 10s were all in tournaments with very weak 20 player fields. The fact that she simply does not qualify to play on the Symetra tour speaks for itself. Jackie comparatively, has been consistently on the top 25 on the Symetra tour money list for the past three years and has status on the LPGA tour. Sadena, Renee, and Mary also have full status on the Symetra tour. This should make it pretty cut and dry who the top four ladies on the show are (the 4 with full Symetra tour status). For an analogy on a men's tour, the four are like playing the Web.com tour while the others including Tonya are like egolf tour, NGA tour, or Canadian tour players that can't even qualify for a Web.com event. Also, yeah Renee kind of seems to be struggling dealing with the pressure but I think she will get better as the show progresses. On the looks side, Mary looks to be at least 250 pounds. And is it just me, or does Kristi look like an alien?

Quote: I agree with this and think it will ultimately be Tonya that wins. She just seems to be the least bothered by the stresses of the show. I think Sadena has more game but seems to be a little more affected when something significant is on the line. Are you sure? If we look at the ladies' actual golf resumes, it is evident that Tonya is one of the weakest links left on the show. Tonya has almost no professional golf experience, and has only played like 2-3 professional tournaments in the last 4 years. She has like two Cactus tour results where she averaged like 79 strokes and finished near the bottom of the leaderboard, playing considerably worse than basically all past and present Big Breakers i.e., except Meghan Hardin(barely placed higher than Meghan Hardin). She also played one other tournament, where she missed the cut by shooting +5 79-70 (2013 Health One Colorado Women's Open). In that same tournament, Mary (T7, -4), Lindsay (T-28), and Renee (33) all placed considerably better. Tonya wasnt even close to the top 50. So if you think Tonya is a strong golfer, think again. I would rank the remaining golfers as (and this is ranked of resumes, not the few shots played on the show. Assessing a player by the few shots they hit on the show is just a ridiculous idea.) 1. Jackie (has LPGA status this year!) 2. Sadena 3. Mary 4. Renee 5. Kristi 6. Lindsay 7. Fiamma 8. Tonya 9. Kylee --------- And the 3 eliminated, which were clearly the three worst. 10. Lauren 11. Dallas 12. Courtney

Lemme do a quick rundown of the golfers this season, ranked in order of playing ability. Also, I have noticed a strong negative correlation between looks and playing ability. 1. Jackie Jackie is undoubtedly the best player here, has partial LPGA status, made cut at US Open, 22nd place on 2013 Symetra tour money list, 12th place on 2011 Symetra tour money list, numerous top ten finishes (about 10-15) on Symetra tour. Her position on Symetra tour money lists are better than any of the other's finishes in one tournament, i.e., if you dont count sadenas T-3 last week. Her scoring average is around 72. She probably has one of the best playing resumes of any woman going into the Big Break, just missing out on an LPGA tour card in 2011 and having some status on the tour. 2. Sadena Sadena is also a strong player, although her playing resume is lacking compared to Jackie, but stronger than everyone else's. Just last week she finished T-3 (67-72-68) on the Symetra tour, and she is currently 2nd place on the Symetra tour money list. (albeit through 2 events) She also played a full season on the Symetra tour last year, and although her scoring avg of 74.5 wasnt very impressive, she at least had a full season on a respectable tour (no, Cactus tour does not count), something only Jackie, her, Mary, and Renee have. 3. Renee Although this may surprise some, I actually believe Renee has some serious potential. She has won several tournaments on the Suncoast Tour, a respectable tour with 72 hole full field tournaments, and she has full status on the Symetra tour. She had a full season on the Synetra tour last year, with a scoring average of 75. Although that sounds quite high, she has made over half of her Symetra tour cuts and most of the other girls have scoring avg of 80+. 4. Mary Mary also has extensive experience on the Symetra tour, averaging a 74.5 in two seasons (about 30 tourneys) and having a T-21 best finish. Again, not great, but decent compared with the others. ----- Im not going to rank the rest, but they are all pretty bad. Lauren for example has three tournament results, finishing +24, +24, and +25 in the 36 hole tournaments. Courtney played only 1 tourney, shooting a 94. The list of horrible golfers goes on...

Another think that irks me about Courtney is that she keeps on saying she got eliminated because she was "naive" but in reality, she got eliminated because of her bad golf.

Courtney Coleman is probably the worst golfer the Big Break has ever seen. Yes worse than Meghan Hardin, worse than Brian Skatell, worse than Cirbie Sheppard. She made a 4 from 65 yards, a 4 from 145 yards, and 7 from 460 yards. Really? And she kept on acting like it was just a bad day -- but its was clearly not. As a professional golfer, Courtney has only played in one tournament, a Canadian Tour tournament, where she shot a 94. And her putting is atrocious, from missing 3-5 footers to leaving long putts way short. http://golfcanada.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/rcga13/event/rcga132/contest/7/contestant/10950/scorecard.htm

I think the play on the show was absolutely atrocious. Here I outline the scores/results: Hole 1, Par 3, 150 Yards Men/127 Yards Women All pars, expect Brian, bogey. Hole 2, Par 4, 410 Yards Men/340 Yards Women Doleman makes like double or triple bogey, Rice and Emily make bogey, the rest make pars. Hole 3, Par 5, 511 Yards Men/446 Yards Women Isaac and Doleman bogey, Brian birdies, the rest par. Hole 4, Par 4, 411 Yards Men/340 Yards Women Shannon bogeys, Issac, Emily, and Brian par. So the final results: Brian E (4 holes) Shannon +1 (4 holes) Isaac +1 (4 holes) Emily +1 (4 holes) Jerry +1 (3 holes) Doleman +3/+4 (3 holes) Total +7/+8 for 22 holes Really, only one birdie in 22 holes played? (11 holes, 2 players each) This is just downright pathetic.The overall score for the holes was like 7, 8 over par. Yes, I understand the pressure, blah, blah, but come on, this has got to be one of the worst finales ever. (though the Big Break Mexico finale was pretty bad too) If they all just played one round, their score would be like 78,79 or 80. Yes, I know some players may be better than others (cough, cough Doleman), but come on, at least one player finish under par. I understand that it may be hard to play well in a particular four hole stretch, but they basically had six chances to do it and they still failed. I don't even care who actually won in the episode, but as a whole, they failed miserably.

The official press release: http://www.golfchannel.com/news/press-releases/all-star-cast-returns-to-team-up-with-nfl-legends-on-golf-channes-big-break-nfl/

It will be held at the East Course of the Dorado Beach Resort in dorado, Puerto Rico. It was originally designed by Robert Trent Jones more than 50 years ago and was redesigned by Robert Trent Jones recently. If you ask me, it seems similar to the course used in Big Break Mexico.

Okay the teams are out: Chris Doleman, Shannon Fish (Big Break Atlantis), Brian Cooper (Big Break Greenbrier) Tim Brown, Mallory Blackwelder (Big Break Ireland, and Will Lowery (Big Break Indian Wells) Mark Bulger,, Zakiya Randall (Big Break Atlantis), and Chad Schultze (Big Break Mexico) Jerry Rice, Emily Talley (Big Break Mexico), and Isaac Sanchez (Big Break Greenbrier) Mark Rypien, Meghan Hardin (Big Break Atlantis), and James Lepp (Big Break Greenbrier) Al Del Greco, Stephaine Kenoyer (Big Break Mexico), and Oren Geri (Big Break Indian Wells) I think the three men from Big Break Greenbrier will probably be the best golfers. I don't know why they invited the first three eliminated contestants on Atlantis back: golf wise, Big Break Atlantis was one of the worst big breaks ever, and inviting the three worst golfers from that Big Break back was not a good idea.

Here is what we know: this is a reunion show with 6 3-person teams. Each team is comprised of a male pro golfer, a female pro golfer, and a past NFL star. the teams will win or lose as a whole, i.e, there will be no individual winner. In the end, the winning team will earn cash and prizes, including a PGA and LPGA exemption as well as $50,000 for the NFL player's charity. NFL players:Tim Brown, Mark Bugler, Al Del Greco,Chris Doleman, Jerry Rice, Mark Rypien So far the confirmed returing big breakers are Stephanie Kenoyer (Big Break Mexico), Will Lowery (Big Break Indian Wells), and Shannon Fish (Big Break Atlantis). I'll be interested to see what happens.