ryunin

I have been to an indoor driving range with foresight sports GC2 tracking computer device and have loads of data. I have about 150 shots with my driver detected. If you are interested what might happen to your shots if your swingspped is about 80 mph, it is a very exciting reading for quiet evenings. The only problem is that basically all my shots have closed clubface at impact, from 0.5 up to 7 degrees. I am going to work on this mistake as soon as possible. Anyway, I have learned a lot of theory if not practice from the data. Now I understand how launch angle, left or right side spin form my shots, I understand where my hooks and slices come from, I can imagine all the shots and their shape just reading the data now. Sorry, but I love it. Of course, now I am going to work with the data and try to change with my online teacher the biggest mistakes. I haven't posted my swing video here yet as first I want to shorten my backswing, still struggling there, plus based on the data, I want to open the clubface a tiny little bit, or even better square it. So if you want to see the data and understand what happens to your swing with speed of about 80 mph, I can send you the file in private. Oh and my shots go everywhere so you can find your typical shot there... unless you are a decent driver, of course. For those people, I will have data next fall, lol...

Yes, I mean the height of the clubhead at its highest point during the finish. I must have been unclear as for the comparison. I mean compaing Adam Scott's finish / clubhead height/ to Jim McLean's finish/ clubhead height link to Adam Scott's driver finish where the clubhead goes to the stratosphere compared to Jim's:

OK. I don't have very good quality videos of my swing, but something might be revealed. I will try to post them in the my swing section tomorrow.

I understand it is useless for a swing analysis, but I was interested in the problem of low finish and then found that picture and realized that my finish was not so low, as we can see in the picture. I am thinking of posting a video of my swing but there are so many mistakes in the swing that I don't even know where to start. Is it worth posting the whole swing the picture is taken from? It is a bit too dark and I don't have a quality camera so the impact section is completely blurred. Yes, somebody told me yesterday that McLean's low finish has to do with his age, so I guess it is not ideal to start with. I am 48 but pretty flexible and fit for my age. Abrevvviated finishes at the Champions Tour, that must be some kind of Senior Tour I suppose. So in general I should make higher finish than Jim McLean, right?

Thank you, I am adding the link to the video where Jim McLean, at the end of the video, shows his swing. It seems the finish is quite low , it would definitely fit into my room. See 1: 55. If you can slow down the video, you can clearly see his finish is lower than his backswing.

I noticed based on a video where I drive a ball, that the finish seems higher than when I practice without a ball. A picture from that video attached below. But the question remains, what is the disadvantage of a lower finish with a driver? I can post a link to that low Jim McLeans video later if necessary.

I noticed a PGA pro like Adam Scott has very high finish, his shaft basically vertical in the highest point, which is higher than any time during his backswing. On the other hand the teacher Jim McLean showing a nice swing with a driver has lower finish than his backswing. Myself, I have never had a high finish, it seems as low as Jim McLean's. I wonder whether such a relatively low finish is absolutely OK unless we want to win a PGA tournament. This problem is also related to my practice swings in my bedroom. My bedroom is only about 8.2 feet high. But I can comfortably backswing with my driver here, I would have to really make my swingplane very upright to reach the ceiling with my driver. As my finish is lower than my highest point during my backswing, it seems I can comfortably practice driver swings in my bedroom, but as far as I know a ceiling that is at least 9 feet high is recommended for driver practice. Would you then say that my finish must be too low if I can comfortably fit into such a small room? Of course, not saying I swing at the max speed, but my swing speed is only about 80 mph anyway.

I am working hard on improving my swing with the driver and the posture at address is critical, of course. Until now I tended to stand with my hands too close to the body with the shaft of the driver pointing to my crotch rather than the navel. I understand that, based on pictures and videos of pros, what they do at address with the driver is arms farther from the body than with other clubs, which seems like the hands are very far from the thighs, a lot of room between thighs and hands and the shaft is pointing to their navel rather than the crotch. This posture seems a bit unnatural to me, I understand I must connect arms with the body, specifically my chest with my arms and I understand it is possible to stand like the pros without disconnecting arms and the body. My question is what happens if my arms or hands are too close to the thighs, say like with a 5 wood, and if the shaft points to the crotch rather than the navel. Is such a posture an absolute no-no? And why is it necessary with the driver to keep hands so far from the thighs and shaft pointing to the navel?

I hope that is not the case, I hook the club quite often - which would suggest too much wrist action, but when I said flush I meant I am surprised how easier it is to hit the sweet spot compared to my driver, or irons - But if the midsize grip makes the club too difficult to hit nicely it would suggest the regular grip suits me better, we'll see, I can experiment a bit.

49 grams is still quite different from 25 grams I think, but I could keep this grip and add two wraps under it - why not four wraps, though? But I have just found this: http://www.winngrips.com/products/comfort-grips/dri-tac-wrap-lite-midsize/ I didn t know such grips really existed, I tried to google lightweight midsize grips but found nothing under 50 grams, now at this site, they offer this superlight midsize grip. Only 23 grams.

seems like the only way to maintain the feel and weight of the club is to add four wraps to the standard grip, and achieve a midsize like grip size and not lose any of the wonderful balance and feel I have now with the club

That's what I am afraid of: different feel, different weight... seems like just bc I need a midsize grip I have to put up with a different club altogether, which sucks.

I have a new 5 wood, Cleveland CG Black , 2012 model. I love this club. It is my favorite club although I have been playing irons for two years and driver for a year. For me, this club is definitely the easiest to hit flush for me, although I have only had it for a few weeks. I love the soft, beatiful contact and the trajectory. I have to hit at least 10 balls with my 7iron before I get a nice contact, while with this club it takes about three. The only problem is that the club came with a superlight grip, Tour 25, only 25 g, but in standard size, whereas I use midsize grips. The whole club weighs only about 280 grams. The swingweight is D2. I suppose they mean with this light shaft and ligth grip. Now if I get a midsize Golf Pride Tour Velvet grip, it weighs about 60 grams. That's 35 grams difference. I know that swingweight is not affected by the weight of the grip that much or not at all, but 35 grams seems like a lot of difference. The club just as it is now, seems fantastically balanced just for me. Now if I go to midsize grip, the whole club will be 35 grams heavier and the SW will be messed up at least a little. What would be a near no nonsence solution to this problem? I don't want to lose that D2 swingweight which seems perfect. I don't know why they don't sell midsize Tour 25 grips, even if they are 35 grams, instaed of 25, that would be the perfect solution for me, but like this I have no idea what to do, only hope that I will get used to a club with a different overal weight and probably different feel. I would appreciate some kind of wise tips from experienced golfers.

Thank you guys for the tips and advice and explanation of stock shafts and fitting for a certain shaft type or length.

Thank you guys for comments and advice. I have done some search and reading and came to the same conclusion as you - that a driver requires adifferent approach and for example the relaxed, easy going swing that works with my 5 wood doesn't work with my driver and I probably woudn't benefit from the super light shaft I have with my 5 wood. So I will just keep my current driver and will work on the swing. As for fitting, when does dynamic fitting makes sense? Isn't it better to wait until my swing becomes at least a little bit consistent, at least with the driver where my swing does not exist yet? I mean it is going to change rapidly within the next 12 months, I am changing a lot of things this year with the driver, shorter backswing, calm hips in backswing, more dynamic downswing, I mean if I get fitted dynamically now, in half a year it will be useless, I think. I have cleveland custom 588 with a regular flex and one lesson was about three basic things I am supposed to do and now a teacher told me to get used to the whole driver swing, and stop worrying about details ... so really only a beginning.

thanks for that comment, I thought it might be difficult to contact them or rely on their information, too bad they only say stock shaft, it is most probably the one that is mentioned in reviews, but not sure 100 per cent... do you think that a 2012 driver will be available for sale from time to time for another year or two , or these last pieces I found all around the net are really the last?

I have recently bought my fw first wood - 2012 Cleveland Black 5 w - and it felt so wonderful and natural for me that I started to wonder why my driver feels so different... (never-ending discussion follows..), a friend of mine, a single HCP golfer told me that I should have the same kind of wood and driver, at best the same series, so in my case I should have Cleveland Black 2012 driver with miyazaki 39 shaft which I have with my 5 wood /and it came as stock with the 5 wood... So now I am looking for a nicely priced Cleveland Black 256 driver with regular miyazaki 39 shaft. Some reviews say that this driver comes stock with miyazaki shaft, but the best deal I found only says it comes with "cleveland stock graphite shaft"but I am not sure what they mean by that, as at some websites there are a few different shafts for this driver listed as stock shafts. I need to make sure I get the same shaft as my wood, miyazaki 39... How to make sure and can I find somewhere what they mean by stock shaft in the case of this particular driver? Thanks for helping. Here is the driver, seller and info I am talking about: http://www.rockbottomgolf.com/cleveland-golf-cg-black-driver.html#product-info

OK, at least I will try to get rid of some of the ugliness and will use a ball next time.

my problems with iron - flipping basically solved - not consistently hitting down, but when I warm up and relax, it works quite often, I sometimes even have a series of well hit, down on the ball shots now my struggles with the driver - ther is no ball this time but at least it shows the biggest problems and how bigger they probably are when the ball is there the hips don't seem to be that passive like until recently, but the whole basis - legs seems to lack stability and what I do at the top is ugly, I want to get rid of that extra top nonsense which is only makings things worse

I tried this yesterday with the driver and almost broke my wrist, dug the clubhead into the ground.... so I am afraid to try it again. Closing my eyes, it was less severe. I just missed the ball.

Today I tried my driver without a ball, with a foam ball and a ball. IT is exactly like you say - without it I feel relaxed, and I think I know what I am doing, even with my hips, with the foam ball, I feel already a bit restricted and less relaxed and not sure what I am doing during the swing. With a real ball, I feel like someone has tied me up and I can hardly move - exaggarating a lot, but something similar. I hope iacas can add something or anyone who has experience with the problem of getting used to hitting a ball. I used to have this problem being rigid and scared with my irons, now I don't feel the ball restricts me, just sometimes I restrict myself, when I am not relaxed enough. But for ages, months at least just the idea that the ball was there made me almost freak out and I topped the balls, I remember, I hope with the driver it will become a distant memory too, as soon as possible.

It is interesting that the shorter the club, the more I feel I am actually in charge of the club. More consistent I am definitely. (no conning really - par three, 95 meters, I grab the PW and it is very very likely I swing frreely and straight and very close to or on the green. With a seven iron, if I need a 120 m shot, it will be 33 % chance that something nice happens, mostly the contact is not what I know I am able to do .. With a driver, the shot will go anywhere near the fairway or a bit further from the fairway, almost always and if it lands on the fairway, it is only because the wind made it go there and the fw was so wide... So it seems we can learn to do something pretty consistently with a wedge, ( i mean full swing ) less so with a short iron, even less so with a mid iron and the worst case is the driver. With the driver, it seems it is the extreme - the movement seems so complex to the brain - no matter if it is or not - that we cannot feel what we are doing unless we are really good. Here's an article that explains why the brain has a problem with the ball whereas without the ball you can move your body much more to your actual liking and decision. http://www.pgaprofessional.com/golf_instruction_articles/practice_swing.html#.VeidsiUrI_4

So to continue a different thread but this is a very different issue so I am beginning a new thread, I was going to add more or much more hip rotation to my driver swing after watching a video showing my passive hips and core with a driver. I got some tips from guys here at the forum. Yesterday I went to the range and realized that alghough I can feel my body perfectly and do what I want to do with it, of course, not talking about subtle movements and details, but in general, without a ball, I could swing the driver with hips pushing forward on time and I was perfectly aware this was happening and I could hit the rubber tee the same way repeatedly and feeling relaxed and free. I could add swingspeed too. Then I add the ball to the tee and until the top I think everything is OK, but once I am about to go down, something turns off in my brain, I don't know what I am doing, I have no time to control my body and I hit the ball and I don't even know whether I rotated the hips or not. I tried over and over and had no idea, the ball of course, went everywhere. Without the ball, again, feeling completely in control and cool, relaxed and hips rotating forward on time. I was puzzled, how come I cannot do what I want to do once the ball is there. Then I spot a very experienced, successful teacher a few yards away, he was alone, so I went to talk to him. Please, how much do you charge, I am desperate, I can swing nice without the ball but once the ball etc. He said he would just check to see what was wrong. I wanted to show him the swing without the ball but he said no, show me the swing with the ball. For some reason, it felt better than before. He said that looks OK to me, not so bad, I said what about the hips, do I rotate the hips correctly? He said Don't worry about the hips. I was like what? I thought they were important. He said show me again. I hit the ball again and this time really badly. He said, I see, you are trying so hard to do something with your body, but you should forget hips and just swing. He said, obviously you are not able to feel the movements of your body, so ther is no point for you to try to do something specific, just narrow the stance a bit, straighten the knees a bit and just keep swinging. At this level you can't feel the body so just keep practicing.... I think he meant but didn't say it, I think he meant once you start to feel your body movements, we can do something about hips and such. I appreciate it that instead of offering expensive lessons he gave me this priceless tip and walked away asking for nothing in return, a great guy, we always greet each other at the range and when I ask a question he always answers quickly and simply. Anyway, this don't worry about this or that, this is a completely new approach to me. Why does the ball, and it does, block something in one's brain? This used to happen to my irons a lot and still happens to a certain degree with a seven iron or longer. With the 5 wood I am sure whenever I let the swing happen without me interfering rationally, I can swing naturally, but when I decide to do something specific with it, I screw up the whole thing, it loses its original natural something. I hope I can just get used to hitting the ball with my driver so I can start to feel the body and begin to work on some hips and stuff. Anyway, once I stopped worrying about my body during the driver swing, one thing definitely happened. I got better, higher trajectory and better contact. That's for starters.

I went to the driving range yestreday to experiment with my hips and driver and after several balls I realized something was wrong and went to this teacher who seems to be there all the time and has a lot of clients and what he told me is for a new thread, as he opened a completely new topic for discussion.

I am going to the practice range today, cant wait to see what happens if I truly add the hip rotation to the swing with the driver. Í except a lot of slices but the swing should be more free and more speed should be possible without being forceful. But I won't worry about slicing or pulling for now, if you agree, first I want to give the swing the damn hip rotation and freedom that it has lacked until today.