Roenie

What bounce and grinds would you use on a 52 and 58, in a setup with a 47 degree PW? I'm looking into getting wedges that would allow me to use this set of lofts so I can drop a wedge from the bag. The 58 will basically be my lob and sand wedge, and my bunker club of choice most of the time. For somewhat longer sand shots the 52 will be used. This makes it hard to choose the right bounce and grind because both clubs will need to play well opened up, without raising the leading edge, but both are used from the sand too, for which higher bounce usually helps. The gap between 52 and 58 is large enough that I'm going to want to open the 52. The 58 not being a 62-64 will need to be opened too when playing flops. The popular strategy of one club having low bounce and the other high bounce I think may not work well here? Should I get 8-ish bounce with a C or M grind for both the 52 and 58? The technique I plan hope on using with the 58 out of sand is Luke Donald's, he shows it in this youtube video. Because effective bounce can be added using the trailing edge, I'm hoping I can have the bounce on the clubs relatively low to not sacrifice bare lie playability at least for one of the clubs. What bounce and grind (and therefore which brand+model of wedge, I guess) would you go for, given these lofts? Or, would you not go this route at all because the wedges have to be a compromise, given that the 58 is my lob as well as my sand wedge? Your thoughts will be much appreciated.

Oops. I just noticed it says "strong fade" in the title, that was supposed to be "strong draw". I can't edit the title anymore, so I hope it's clear from the explanation in the first post...sorry. @Lastings: I did not mean trying to actually swing over the top - I wouldn't be doing that, even if it would feel like it to me, I probably wouldn't come close. That said, it makes sense to stay away from that swing thought. Thanks. I'll consider making a swing video. Think I have a camera somewhere. Getting the setup and grip exactly the same each time isn't easy. I'll keep an eye on it. I do currently struggle with the grip because I need midsize grips instead of standard. I pay a lot of special attention to the grip before I swing, to make sure neither hand is strong or weak, and the clubface is square to target at address. Seems more likely that I just dynamically don't get it squared the same amount at impact. (With my swing path, I need it to be very slightly open to target yet closed to the swing path, at impact, every time...)

Please let me know if there are any other reasons why someone would struggle with blocking it to the right (no curvature) half the time and drawing (almost hooking) it back the other half of the time. The only reason I can think of is having a swing path that is too much in to out. During a lesson (which focused on other things) I was told I swing in to out, so I'm just putting one and two together here.

My swing path is in to out, which is odd for a beginner but I've been watching too many Crossfield videos. I think that's the reason for the trouble: half the time I get a ball that starts up the right and draws to left of target further than I want. The other half of the time the ball starts right and stays right. This I expect must be due to mild variation in the clubface - if it squares up to target I get the over-draw, and if it only squares up to the swing path the ball stays right. Slices don't really happen with me. My conclusion is that I am not yet able to control the clubface well enough to handle this much in to outness. I might have a solution but this is one of those situations where I have to concede that asking for insight from more experienced players would be a great idea. What I will do unless advised otherwise is rotate my hips more which should cause me to swing more left and calm down the in to out path to be more neutral. Would it be better to learn how to swing more "over the top" with my hands and arms instead? Rotating the hips more can add power, so I think that's the better way to go? (Easier for me to execute too.) Or should I learn how to more accurately control how much the clubface squares up? It's such a small difference in degrees I find that quite tricky. I also noticed that my lead arm is kind of low across the chest at the end of my backswing, pretty pictures would have it a little more up toward the shoulder. Don't know what difference that makes. (Maybe one factor in causing the in to out path. I tried raising it, and still swung in to out...) Any advice very much appreciated. Thanks. Even if you think I'm spot on here about adding more hip rotation, that's good to know too. :)

Everywhere I go, I read that when you add length to clubs, you should adjust the lie as well. Even a clubfitter told me this. It seems false to me if the goal of using longer clubs is to get into a more comfortable spine angle position (which typically is the goal, right?): Try this to see what I'm on about: - Grab a wedge "choked down" all the way down the grip so your index finger touches the bare shaft. As if you have a very short club. - Now set up with the clubhead flat on the ground. You'll have to bend over a lot, as if you are a tall player with short clubs. Hold this position. - Slide your hands back to the normal position on the grip without changing anything else, as if you extend your club. Now your hands are too close to your body. - Push your hands away from you. Now the toe points up, and you are too far from the ball. - Now raise your chest. This raises your hands, so the clubhead will be level with the ground again, it also slides closer to you. It seems to me that if the lie was correct to begin with, it should still be correct after extending the club, because you extended the club in order to raise your chest which in turn raised your hands. Am I wrong? Making the lie more upright instead of (or in combination with) adding length would actually strain my left wrist if the grip is properly held (in the fingers), because the wrist needs to bend down to get the shaft in the more vertical position required to get the clubhead level to the ground.

These shafts: product page, not the 90 (higher launch) / V / 105. Plain Tour. I'm going to have to regrip them anyway because of my large hands, but if I can get away with not changing out the shafts I'll leave them in due to budget considerations.

I see. I can't see it making that much difference either and here's why: even if we're ignoring that the material doubles up... if we're adding 0.75" at most to a short club shaft that's 35.5", that's still only a whopping 2.1% increase in shaft length. My clubs (that will be delivered tomorrow most likely) have KBS Tour Regular shafts. Not sure if these are considered more or less flexible than standard.

Not really the case when using extensions, is it? Since you're doubling up on material where the extension is inserted, effectively making that section stiffer and most of the extension will be on the inside of the existing shaft.

Thanks. Can always choke down on it, right? Best of both worlds...when not choking down there's a smaller gap between LW and the next wedge, for those slightly longer shots. +when I do need a bigger swing I can be more comfortable, which also translates to accuracy.

I'm not a clubfitter, but actually I expect 3 degrees is likely to be enough, as I've read that the loft affects distance much more than length. It would probably be something like this: 9I goes from 42 to 44 deg. of loft. (and +.5") PW from 47 to 50 (and +.75") GW from 51.5 to 54.5. (and +.75") As said before this will require a reasonable amount of (launch monitor) work to get them dialed in for distance gapping but I guess it's still better than extending all the clubs and leaving the long iron (4) at home, because that would mean my 5-8 would have longer shafts than they strictly require. There is nothing wrong with my setup in itself, my teaching pro would confirm that, standard clubs are just slightly short for me but it's only a problem with the shortest clubs. I am 6' 1" and my wrist-to-floor is 37.75". My hamstrings are extremely short (always have been) hence bending over for the SW/PW hurts my lower back. The tension limits my motion. Raising my chest (and early extending) is the natural result to relieve the tension, causing me to skull the ball every now and then: whenerver I'm not actively trying to prevent a skulled ball. It's one swing thought that's always on my mind with the wedges and one I could do without.

Oh it's that guy. The one that resorts to questioning the question and the one asking the question. Please find another thread with another thread creator to bother. The question in post #6 is clear enough. I particularly like the assumption that I am "less concerned about accuracy in the scoring clubs than in the long irons". If they're uncomfortably short, they're uncomfortably short, and accuracy suffers because of it. Simple as. The fact that I don't have thousands of posts on these forums does not mean I don't understand posture and swing mechanics. Have a nice day.

@ Plan B: a LW can be added if SW plays too long, because getting rid of the longest iron leaves an empty spot in the bag. (sorry, can't edit previous post after a certain amount of minutes). There may be other considerations I don't know about.

GW

I've just found and ordered the irons I wanted in great condition, good shafts but they are standard length. Following the idea of this thread (let's call this plan A), I could add 0.5" to my 9 iron, 0.75" to my PW+AW, and 1" to my SW making their shafts just as long as the 8 iron's. Then I have to add loft to each of them so that they send the ball their original distances. This seems necessary to avoid a large gap between the 8 and 9 iron. This would require finding a clubfitter with a launch monitor and paying for the services. The wedges will have a rather high ball flight and of course less roll. I'm guestimating my SW will end up around 62 degrees, GW 56, PW 50, 9 iron 44 deg (the 8 iron is 38), remembering that the loft is the only differentiating factor. Plan B: Won't it be easier to extend the whole set by 1" (that's how much longer I need my shortest wedge to be), and just leave my 4 iron out of the bag? (The extended 5 iron will probably do 4 iron duty). My shortest wedge (SW) will play longer than it did before. (I'm not sure if that's a problem.) What do you think? Do you see any benefits going with plan B / A?

It seems to depend on how you feel on the day, as well. During another session at the range today my confidence with the 4 iron wasn't there like it was last time. This time at least half my shots were bad and the 4 hybrid was slightly better, mostly because it launched higher more often.

I don't see why you can't be crazy and make a good point. It's possible the shaft is what's causing my problems with my hybrid. I probably shouldn't judge all hybrids after having used just one, and with just one shaft. Still going to make sure I get a 3 iron in my next set just in case though!

9 iron gets extended by 1/2" PW gets extended by 1" SW (and GW) extended by 1 or 1.25" How many degrees of added loft to keep the same gapping between 8 and 9 iron and 9-PW-SW?

I'm supposed to use longer than standard length irons, but I don't see the point in making them all longer and suffering the accuracy concequences with the mid and long irons. Only the 9 iron and wedges tend to be uncomfortably short for me, so I have an idea... What if I use longer shafts (or extensions) in the 9 iron, PW, GW, and SW so that they all match the 8 iron in length, then add some loft to each of them, so that they knock the ball the same distance as they did before? ( If the lofts aren't adjusted then there will be a large distance gap between the 8 and 9 irons. ) Good idea, or bad idea? Apparently, typically a 9 iron is 1/2" shorter than the 8 iron, and the PW is 0.5" shorter again, and sometimes SW is another 0.25" shorter. Let's say normally I would have a 9 iron at 42 degrees (8 being at 38), PW at 47, then two more wedges at 52 and 58. What would the new lofts have to be with the shafts as long as the 8 iron, and would they be playable?

Randomly pulled. Regular flex shaft though, which should be fine for me.

Don't assume I have massive swing speed either. I might be 6' 1" but I'm only about 55kg/121 pounds. Not a big guy.

As I'm relatively new to golf (best score thus far: +7 on a 9h par3), you'd think that I'd do better with a 4 hybrid than a 4 iron. At the range today, I compared my cavity back 4 iron to my 4 hybrid. (Yes, I know I have to hit down on the ball with a hybrid, as with an iron.) The hybrid is absolutely no easier to hit well than the 4 iron. Both clubs require the same large amount of care to hit well. My mishits were worse with the hybrid, wider left/right dispersion, the bad shots were typically a massive hook/slice, often low. The hybrid's head is like a fairway wood's head but much smaller so it lacks forgiveness while the shaft still feels long. (7W is easier to hit near the target line). The 4 iron has a much heavier head than the hybrid, easier to control / keep on track during the swing. With the cavity backed 4 iron as long as I get a half decent enough contact, it launches just fine. I can feel a less than good contact in my hands (tingles) but the ball still launches ok. When I nut it with the hybrid it does go higher, but it doesn't need to go quite that high. So for me, the hybrid was no easier or better than the long iron. Subjectively I find the hybrid slightly harder to hit, if anything. My next iron set will most likely include a 3 iron. Sue me. Anyone else just not understand the hybrid hype?

Thanks. Did that at the range today with my 4 iron off the mat and hit it well, ball slightly forward in my stance, launched up in the air just great. I can easily send it too high even, by placing the ball forward a bit more. The 6 iron felt good too with the same swing, ball more centered. Does that include wedges and short irons? Do you mean to say with those clubs you load up weight into your back foot, push off and shift weight forward just like any iron shot? For pitches I seem to get a solid strike more consistently when I put most of my weight on the front foot to begin with, and keep it there. It leads to less movement on the shot. The ball goes just as far as with a "weight shift" swing. The latter surprised me, so just for kicks, I tried doing this with my 6 iron to see if I would lose any distance compared to a good strike with weight shift back to front - nope, no difference.

I can't edit my previous post anymore, so I'll add this here - a buddy mentioned: Think of it like this: the 2-4 is a wood type shot clean pick no divot, 5-9 u want to not pick clean. The loft of them just doesnt really lend towards a non clean pick.

If it wasn't for Mark Crossfield I would not have been able to take up golf.

Why point and laugh? It's really not funny when you're the one with the premature 8-ball. For some folks (I happen to know one in real life) it's simply a medical problem that harms confidence and threatens to undermine a healthy self image, because of the reactions people have toward it. Would you laugh at someone with a limp? How about a guy with a big nose? You do realize it's possible that Mark would google his own name checking his search engine results (he's running an online business after all) and stumble upon this thread, don't you?