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dkjestrup

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About dkjestrup

  • Birthday 10/05/1994

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  1. Not much fun to discuss things on this forum if the only answer is that you're always right and you're not even going to engage in or humour other points of view lol.
  2. You're clinging onto it being more complicated, but it's just simply not. The literal only change I'm talking about, is this: Clubface to target = Path + Clubface to Path. Clubface to Path is literally already in the ball flight laws. All your comments about how it's hard to measure relative to body or legs etc or lacks a true reference don't make sense. It's literally already in the existing laws you use and that you have no problem with. Path isn't complicated either, I'm sure you agree. Nothing I'm talking about is any more complicated than what we currently have. The only difference is that it makes explaining why someone is pulling or pushing or slicing or hooking easier. You practically agreed with me by accident when talking about how you fix a lot of slices by starting with the clubface.
  3. I don't refer to a simulator to mean that the ball flight laws are only theoretical or something, just that I think they're better at describing how the ball moves relative to the club face, than they are at describing how the ball moves relative to the swing. It's a minor distinction but I think it's helpful. You're free to disagree. Obviously the golfer has to make the ball go to the target. To be honest I would agree with you that the ball flight laws might be more useful for describing how to intentionally hit a draw around an obstruction etc. on a course, but I think they're worse for describing why someone who is trying to hit the ball straight is failing. I agree that where we're measuring relatively from might be a bit confusing - I'm not wording things well. It's clubface relative to the swing. This is exactly the same as in the current ball flight laws. If it's not a problem there, then how is it a problem here? As to hitting a push draw. Obviously it's a feel thing at this point, however I'd say that if I swing in-to-out but use my wrists the same as I would on a regular shot, I would push the ball (as my wrists would end up neutral to by club path that my arms are swinging on), unless I intentionally made an effort to close my wrists during my swing more than I usually would. Maybe a player that doesn't feel the swing through their wrists as much would have a different feel, that's very possible. I can also just tell a twelve year old to grip the clubface more closed to fix a slice, that's entirely what I'm saying here. All I'm trying to show is that the way the path influences the ball is predominantly by modifying the club face to target angle (and therefore start direction), rather than by modifying the clubface to path direction (as this slightly independent of path). Again it's easy to speak in absolutes here, I don't want to imply that these factors are working completely independently, but they certainly are more than most people give them credit.
  4. To answer "so what?", it's to make it easier to diagnose swing problems. As you describe, the current ball flight laws are perfect, if you're trying to model ball flight in a simulator. Ironically the old ball flight laws, while wrong, did a better job of explaining how ball flight feels relative to a golfer's swing. Essentially all I've done is explain the ball flight laws relative to the golfers swing, instead of relative to the target. Following this actually gives pretty different results: For example, following the modified ball flight laws I mentioned above, a slice is caused by an open clubface (relative to the golfer) and a pull is caused by an out-to-in swing path. You will never slice the ball if you have a closed clubface relative to you as the golfer. This is the same in the new ball flight laws, but is less obvious. It's also not obvious the role of your swing path. The reason an in-to-out path is desirable if you want to hit a draw, is that it's the only way to get the ball to start right of target without slicing it (i.e. open clubface). As for this being complicated, I disagree: Current laws: Start direction = absolute clubface direction Spin = relative clubface direction My version: Start direction = relative clubface direction + path Spin = relative clubface direction As above, all I'm doing is explaining the ball flight laws in terms relative to the golfer's swing instead of relative to the target. But doing this makes it way clearer what part of the swing is causing what movement.
  5. I agree, this is correct. I'm not disagreeing that this is how the ball moves. I also agree with this. I don't mean to imply that the movement of the clubface in the grip throughout the swing (i.e the opening/closing) matters, only at impact. Yes, the start line is 75% clubface angle at impact. I'm also not disagreeing with this. What I'm saying though, is that the clubface angle at impact, is created by both the clubface angle in your hands, and the direction of your swing. The clubface angle in your hands moves with your swing - obviously, because your hands are attached to your arms/body. To give another example, if you closed the clubface 5 degrees in your hands, then gripped the club. And then you aimed 10 degrees right of target. Your clubface is 5 degrees open to the target at impact, correct? If you instead grip the club at neutral/0 degrees and aim straight at the target. Throughout your swing you will create a clubface angle relative to your swing path by some combination of wrist movement. If you put a camera on your lead forearm looking at the clubface, you would see this angle. If this is 5 degrees closed, and your swing path is 10 degrees in to out, then your final clubface angle relative to target is still 5 degrees open. I agree that when it comes to coaching there's an individual part of it for the student. But my argument here is that you're agreeing with me on the root cause. Fixing the clubface - relative to path, which is the angle of the clubface relative to your forearms - fixes the slice, fixing the swing path fixes the pull. And often the pull is caused by someone trying to overcompensate for their slice in the first place.
  6. Hi all, One thing I'm surprised there is little conversation about online, is that the New Ball Flight Laws (i.e. face sends, path bends), are very misleading. Factually correct, but misleading. They work well if you're setting up to hit a draw/fade etc. with your set-up. Aim your clubface in your chosen starting direction, choose how much fade/draw you want with your feet/body position, then grip the club and swing like normal. The problem is, the ball flight laws are outright misleading when it comes to how you dynamically open/close the clubface throughout your swing. Most golfers are opening the clubface on the backswing, and closing it on the downswing. But this opening/closing is not happening relative to your target, it's happening relative to your path. Imagine that due to your wrist action in your swing, you are closing the clubface in your hands by 5 degrees. This will stay 5 degrees closed, relative to whatever swing path you have. Neutral swing? 5 degrees closed to target, slight pull draw. 10 degrees in-to-out swing? 5 degrees open to target, nice push draw. Closing or opening the clubface during your swing is already happening relative to path. This is why when you have someone hitting pull slices, and you have them fix their over the top action, they will start hitting the ball straight or even right of target. They will not suddenly hit pull draws. Despite them pulling it previously and you not touching their clubface. A more accurate version of the ball flight laws is this: Starting direction = Clubface direction relative to target = Path Direction + Clubface direction relative to path. Spin direction = Clubface direction relative to path (unchanged). Your out-to-in swing isn't causing your slice, it's causing you to pull it, by redirecting your clubface - which is open relative to your swing path - until it is closed relative to target. Fix the clubface closing in your hands properly first (to hit pulls/pull-draws), and then fix your swing path in order to hit the ball straight.
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