azflying

...man...I wish I could see the posted video. I'll have to check my home computer tonight. thanks for posting.

My original post said "minimal" wrist hinge, not "no" hinge. Not to start a debate about exactly how much hinge Stricker has, but he is no Bubba Watson. uttexas, I assume you posted a picture, sorry I can not see it and it may clearly illustrate either point. I agree Stricker hits the ball a long way, I just can't see amateurs getting acceptable distance results by changing their own swing.

Johnny Miller made a big deal about the simplicity of Steve Stricker's swing...all true. What I can't figure out is how he hits the ball "tour distance" with minimal use of his wrists. So he has a quick, strong body turn and doesn't need wrist hinge...great...I just can't see amateurs without those physical gifts adopting his swing as Miller prognosticates will happen in the future. What does everyone else think?

I click on the Multi-Quote button and nothing happens, maybe it's my browser. If golf does not need to be "fixed", why change the equipment rules? If bomb and gouge is bad and that is what is successful on tour, isn't that broken? I thought that's what the USGA is trying to fix. Again, I think it's a matter of opinion, personally I'd rather watch a Pro wedge it onto the green from the rough, than watch him pitch it to the middle of the fairway and bump-and-run it onto the green. I guess the subtle sophistication is lost on me, how is one golf and the other not. Yes there are multiple tees, but they have to keep making new ones father back for the Pros, changing the original course designer's intent sometimes. (when they get tired of moving them back, the USGA may take a look at driver specs). Science says amateurs will not notice the difference and in five years if amateurs are buying v-grooves and not shopping eBay for box-grooves, then the science will be validated. People as least want to think they have an advantage and their equipment is helping them. Essentially we are talking about the same thing. Every post is against a special Pro ball and for V-grooves. So presumeably if I suggested Pro Spec wedge grooves, you would all be just as angry that you don't get to play V-grooves. I am surprised that the feelings are so strong about amatuers playing the same equipment as Pros, but that explains why I find so many ProV1's under trees 200 yards from the tee. People want to be like Pros even if it is bad for their game. And you're right about amateurs, on average, not getting better, that's weird isn't it?

You will only be able to buy remaining stock after 1/1/2010.

Erik, My account does not allow multi-quote, so I can not rebut your reply item by item. You seem to have categorically missed my entire point. I suggest having the Pros use a lower performance ball, everyone else can still use the latest technology. Generally, if you agree with the USGA actions, then you will disagree with everything I said. If you like playing golf simply because it is hard and making it harder will make it more fun, then I am not sure you are in the majority. These USGA action are not making the game easier. Amateurs can not generate the spin pros can and now they will be able to generate less. ...and they were only studying grooves a couple years ago. The USGA seems driven to roll back technology. ...Little League is scaled back so the kids can have fun and hit home runs just like the pros. If we apply the same logic you use for golf, they should be playing with 400ft fences and like it because it is exactly the same as the pros. ...on the ball spec, again you missed the point. I suggest creating an additional spec for pros only. ...I'm really not clear on the "personal equipment" thing golf is not a team sport, everything except the course is personal. If tennis pros were limited in the racket string tension to prevent them from hitting the ball 200 mph according to you that is bad because the racket is "personal equipment". How much fun will it be to watch tennis if no one can return a serve? I don't see how simply sharing something opens it up to additional regulation and individual use closes it. You missed the NASCAR statement. Tires are "personal equipment", cars do not share tires. Teams are required to use Goodyear NASCAR spec tires or be disqualified. Titleist, Nike, Callaway, anyone can manufacture the pro ball I suggest, it simply needs to conform to the reduced performance standard. They do it now, Tiger Woods plays conforming next gen ball that you and I can not yet buy. They bring dozens to the range and gather them up afterward so they don't get out. There is no right or wrong in this argument, simply different points of view. I just think there is a better way to "fix" pro golf without impacting everyone else.

First it was the new groove rule, now it is high-lofted wedges (no 60+), what's next, 460cc drivers, graphite shafts, ball dimples... Why make these rules apply to everyone? I know you can use your u-grooves until 2024, but just try to buy a new club in 2011. Manufacturers are not allowed to make them after 1/1/2010. If the USGA does not like seeing Tour players drive the ball 300 yards and hit spectacular iron shots to tight pins then why don't they change their ball. Every other sport has equipment specific to the pro game that amatuers don't use and often can not even buy. When was the last time your 12-year-old played with an MLB baseball? Create a Tour Spec ball. NASCAR has spec tires and fuel, baseball has a spec baseball (not to mention wood bats), etc... Create a ball that has less spin and less distance or whatever charateristic they think is ruining the game and make the Pros use it. Stamp on the logo from whatever manufacturer so they get recognized. Problem solved, they can adjust the game anyway they want without making it more difficult for the weekend player. Golf is getting smaller, people have less time to practice and are more impatient about being successful at it. Why make it harder for everyone and drive people away from the game, just to make the Pro game like it was 50 or 100 years ago. Unlike other sports, golf is not remembered against the numbers. No one remembers who has the longest drive ever, fewest putts, more most GIR, they remember tournament wins which is independent of equipment because everyone has open access to the latest technology.

I understand the Pros don't fight a slice, but what is the advantage to having an open face?

Driving is my biggest problem. It's hard to score well when you put yourself in a difficult situation every hole. I've found if I have a good (not necessarily great) tee shot, it sets up for at least a bogey. If I hit it into the desert (I live in AZ) or OB, I'm not going to save par. Second is short game. I found a trick that seems to be working. Buy more range balls than you want to hit. You will go through your normal practice time and have a bunch of balls left over. I pull out my wedges and hit partial swing shots to different spots on the range, some 50 yards, some 20 feet, just wasting balls. In the past I thought every ball I paid for needed to be hit full swing, normal routine. This has helped my short game a lot. Putting is feel and reading greens. I have not learned to read greens, I guess that takes experience. I use a long putting and 3-foot putts are almost automatic, just aim and swing. I don't know why people can't get over using a long putter and then bitch about their putting stroke. Golf is hard enough without fighting your equipment. Equipment? Looking through the signatures on this thread, people seem to have the Super Game Improvement clubs, which is good. I believe you can buy a better game today, go out and get the easiest to use clubs you can find. Read the Golf Digest Hot List issue (or online) and set yourself up with some shovel irons and straight-as-an-arrow high MOI driver. (if you slice, I recommend the Cleveland Hibore XLS DRAW driver, it's almost impossible to slice, I have one).

Lessons. I suggest signing up for group lessons or a couple private with the Pro at the range. They will get your grip and stance started off correctly so you don't start learning bad habits and spend the rest of your life getting rid of them. I don't know about the net thing. My problem is if you can't see the ball fly, how do you know you hit it correctly and if you're not hitting it right, you will in-grain a bad swing. You will perfect a terrible golf swing.

It is awesome! I have the Draw version because I tend to hit a fade and the gold shaft because my swing speed is 90-95. It hits the ball high, far and straight! Unbelieveable performance. I drove one onto the green on a short 278-yard Par-4 yesterday, not bad for someone who used to hit drives 230 with a TaylorMade R5. I can't say enough good things about this club.

Thanks for the replies..glad to hear the car manufacturers make them large enough to fit golf clubs. My primary limitations are MPG (must be 25mpg, no Corvette) and cost, I'm looking at used (no BMW 1-series) to keep the price down (no Boxster). Thanks again.

I'm looking for a small, fuel efficient car with some panache, and two-seat roadsters fit the bill, e.g., BMW Z3 Z4, Mazda Miata, Honda S2000, Mini Cooper, Nissan 350Z, etc... Please reply if you own one or know someone who owns one and whether their golf clubs fit in the trunk (mandatory requirement) Thanks.

Great explanation, thanks. 8 under is one heck of a day but OK, it happens. "friend", nope, just some guy I got paired with that got into my pocket.

69.0/115 Thanks for your help.

On a similar note, this tournament was Stableford scoring. After you reach double-bogey your score doesn't go down anymore. What keeps you from running up your total to the equitable stroke control, i.e. once you hit 5 on a par-3 just write down 7. It may come in handy next tournament

Thanks the support and the links. I checked out the odds table. His handicap was actually a 21, he was in E-flight! I'm not too familiar with using the handicap system, but an 72+21 = 93, an 82 is 11 under his handicap (I'm sure I didn't do that right), which is off the charts. It's not that I'm all angry about this, I'm just disappointed. The more familiar I get with the system the more disappointed I become. Since golf is based on player integrity and self-goverened, I can not think of how this problem can be addressed unless only tournament scores submitted by USGA sanctioned clubs are used for tournament results and you're a Callaway until you play in one tournament.

I play in two leagues, one that uses a "league handicap" and the other uses the "official USGA handicap". I've played in two tournaments with group using the USGA handicap in the D-flight (15-18 handicap) and both times someone in my foursome shot an 82. Wow..career rounds just in time to win all the money...how about that. I post every round I play, good and bad, because I believe that is the intent of the USGA handicap system. It is now my opinion that there are a significant number of people who only post their worst rounds to improve their tournament results. Now I am new to golf and maybe this has gone on since the beginning of time, but I am totally soured on the use of USGA handicaps and will no longer participate in any tournament that uses them where the cost of the prize fund is more than $10. I am OK with someone cheating me out of $10, but no more. The other league uses the league handicap which works great because you may walk off with the cash once or twice but your handicap will go down and there is no way to pad it back up with a bunch of bogus rounds no one sees. I think this is a problem, maybe I am alone.

...they lost the recipe. The cameras during the Accenture Match Play coverage were back to their usual off-angle position and every shot was "goin' right". Is there some reason the players do not want the camera on their line of play? I can't imagine cameras disturb them. It's really too bad they can't show this, it would give viewers a better appreciation for how the pros have to work their shots to get those fantastic results.

I agree with Big_M, the DSG makes the CG12 very easy to use. The single bounce angle of the Vokey makes it a compromise, low bounce helps with short pitch shots but makes full-swing more difficult because some of us don't always make a perfect swing and the higher bounce leading edge of the DSG is more forgiving. I bought a 60/8 Vokey because I kept chunking the 60/4. I also use the 64-deg DSG with 3-deg of bounce and I can easily hit it full-swing.

My 15th club would be a cut-down 13-deg driver to use off the tee when hitting the driver brings trouble into play. I think taking one of those high-lofted drivers will allow the player to take advantage of all the technology and that huge 460cc head in the 3-wood type club.

I have the HiBore XLS. It is a cannon, but it is also loud with a very metalic sound. Looking at your handicap, you are probably looking for something different that what I would choose, but the Cleveland is a very nice club. They are maximizing the technology.

14. I plan to try the 64 as a replacement for the 60, not an additional club (I already carry four wedges but I count the PW and AW as a 10-iron and 11-iron as I use them like irons for specific distance shots, I don't chip or pitch with them). The idea is if I use the 64 from 30 yds in or around the green, it will help to avoid decelerating my downswing in fear of hitting it over the green. If I can hit it full-swing then its usefullness may extend to 50 yds. I have a 54 for the gap between 50 yds and 105 yds (AW distance). I bought the 64 yesterday and so far not much difference from the 60 other than stopping distance, the 64 stops RIGHT NOW. I have one of those Feel 73-deg, now there is a useless club, it goes 10 yds no matter how you hit it.

As for the need for a 64: I have trouble with short pitch shots, it is hard for me to just bring the club back part ways. I can make a longer swing with a higher lofted club and not have it roll off the back of the green. And I like drop-and-stop better than having to read the green.

Cleveland Golf came out with a new wedge with Dynamic Sole Grind. I am looking at the 64 deg. I really like the multiple bounce angles, high bounce leading edge so you don't stub it, low bounce trailing edge so you can open it up.