Derek Ong

Hi Beachcomber, mvmac, Thanks for the great inputs. I've been trying to keep my trail arm more connected in my backswing (tried the thing under armpit drill as well) but it's wreaking havoc on my contact. Coming in way too flat and underplane (because i test underplane by hitting the 3wood off the deck). Also, unfortunately, i don't have that ball but i did saw on ebay you can buy it. Nevertheless, after a lot of self analysis and experimentation, I think my high flying trail elbow may rather be an effect rather than cause. Even consciously 3/4 swinging, in transition, i would drop the clubhead and lift my trail elbow. When i stop myself at impact and compare it to Luke Donald or Rory, it's clear i'm losing the pitch elbow positioning (as very importantly explained by Beachcomber in another thread here), and my trail arm at impact is rather straight. So i came to a premature conclusion that i'm flying my right elbow so i don't crash to badly into my side on the downswing and hit it fat or flip it. As a fix, i'm actually trying to get to impact position with more trail pitch elbow action and then see if i'm still over-swinging like that. Last weekend, what got me into a more pitch elbow position at impact could be my posture which is preventing me from getting my elbows low enough on the downswing. I'll keep improving on this and try to get a new video this week. If it doesn't really work out, i'll get that ball from ebay (the one that has cutouts for arms on each side of the ball).

God knows i've tried. Really tried. To the point where now like i said in a few posts above, that it may be the angle of my camera phone that causes me to look so bad overswinging. In fact today at the range, i dropped my iphone and cracked the back because i was trying to position it level to at least my waist on the lazy white chair and the ball bucket on it! and it fell... grrr.. All my swings, i'm very conscious on shortening the backswing and i'll keep trying. Anyways, other than that, do you see something i can improve on? Contacts are pretty solid, consistent but majority of my misses are really straight draws (10meters). I called them hooks in my ori post but with a 6iron, it's hard to tell the difference.

Hit the range today for a short while. Apparently i did not early extend as bad as i usually do. Haven't figured out why.

I would second what GaryH said. Additionally, my take on it is that I think you suck the club way too inside on takeaway (with a lot of pop-out) and so your clubface is very open. Try not to fan the clubface open on takeaway and keep the face looking at the ball as long as you can. Just my 2cents.

Didn't have a chance to try anything new (suggestions from the few here) with the swing but am feeling good about it. Shot 92 yesterday, which really shouldn't have been breaking 90s. That is my first time out on the course after my swing changes. Before i was hovering closer to 99s. Have to re-calibrate my distances as i was overshooting by 10m on my iron shots (6 iron 150m instead of 140m before) so i missed a few crucial greens, esp on the par 3s. Also found how much the bushes love me yesterday - got a few unlucky bounces on the first cut and ended up with no clear sight so had to take medicine and punch it back to the fairway. :( A few big push slices with the driver so i had to give that up and use my 3 wood off the tee. I really need to practice my driver as i can't do that in the range near my house (max range distance is 180m so i got a few telling off for hitting over the limits). All in all, feeling good about the swing, solid consistent contact. Just need to tweak a little and i'm looking to get mid 80s next round.

Ayouden: I'll try that, thx. Nevrino: I agree with the downswing early extension. Am trying to figure out if it;s my posture or i've been at the range too much.

Thx ayouden for the feedback. Really appreciate it. :) Now i think about it, perhaps it's the angle which i'm taking the video. I don't have a tripod and i'm pretty much setting my iphone up on a "summer" chair (the white low chairs that are lower than my waist) that are provided in the range. I've been very concious of my overswinging and in the video i'm pretty much swinging 3/4 swings. I really didn't think much about how i took the video before your post so i thank you for leading me to it. If you look at Rory's swing, the shoot is aimed higher than mine. I think i need to get a tripod to really know if i am really swinging like Daly.

Hello everyone, Here's my swing with a 6 iron. Still have issues with overswinging a little and not turning my hips enough on the downswing. Also slight early extension. Appreciate your feedback. I've been Playing Golf for: 5 years My current handicap index or average score is: 18 My typical ball flight is: Straight/Push Draw The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: Hooks Videos:

@eye21942 - Thanks for reading my post. I find (including myself) a lot of mid to high HCPs tend to get out of our spine angles during the downswing, esp when we're getting tired. It really is not intuitive to a lot of people to keep their angles through a golf swing, which would explain why it's harder to achieve the more tired we get. In the downswing, before impact, if one is humping the goat (i.e. standing up, thrusting hips/belt forward towards the ball), you will change a few things you have set up in the first place. Some of these are: - swing plane - laying off more (clubface opening vs plane) or flattening of plane - actual distance between hands and body - etc etc etc Why a pull? i think (again it's unqualified and IMO) is that when we goat hump too early in the downswing (there are good goats to hump which could be useful at the later part of the downswing, etc):- - clubface is too open, so the only way for us to hit it is to rapidly close the clubface. This is not easy to control. Also it could cause us to swing Out to In in order to close the face. So we either end up pulling the shot OR we hit a big push slice OR we hit it FAT (because we're trying to rapidly steepen the attack to return to where we were). You could also say when we goat hump early, the hips will get in the way of the hands (a lot of teachings have been trying to tell us to "clear the hips" etc) but i think that's really relative to the ball position at address and the real cause of it is the opening of the clubface rather than hips getting the way of hands. Keeping spine angle (keeping tush back) during downswing puts tremendous stress on lower back and hamstring (it's not natural IMO). Some of these muscles are just not very well conditioned in our normal day lives, esp if we did not pick up "proper" golf at a very young age (or if we don't have regular pro lessons that will condition these muscles. Please take all that with as much salt as you want. :) In any case, i sincerely hope it helps you, cos it has helped me a lot. P.S. I also find a lot of people tend to take a simple but famous drill for granted (including myself). The put a chair/bag/post behind your tush and keep it there (even touching it) in the downswing to impact is something most high Med/Hi HCPs should be part of the driving range routine.

Nice OP video. One thing to ponder: Why not set up with the right axis tilt at address, keep looking at the center-back of the ball and swing away? I find that much easier to achieve than manipulating anything in the downswing.

Fatigue can cause many bad habits to rear its ugly head. When i used to have that kind of issue as you've described, i focus on keeping my tush back on the downswing. I personally believe the pull is a compensation for early extension, so we flip. Try it...or not. :)

Another unqualified opinion here: Firstly, I would check the grip. Secondly, backswing you may be laying it off. I guess you can never go wrong checking those 2 things.

Things i am working on: - Eliminate early extension (keep tush line). Easy to train with chair at my backside. Warning, as the muscles are not trained before this, the lower back can get quite sore (and i'm not getting younger) - Over swinging. Feel sure isn't real here, but less is certainly more in my case.

Sounds like a pretty good problem to have.. you know.. "the perfect drive".. :) I would just aim right and hit that pull every time.

I have seen a lot of very good players that are very close to the ball and have no issue with room to swing the best way they can. Unless if one has early extension (goat humping too early), then standing close to the ball would be pretty disastrous. I would probably look at keeping my tush line (spine angle, etc etc) with the putting a chair behind me drill.

When i mentioned "pull" i meant a straight shot that starts left and ends left. There are so many things that will cause what you're seeing and it's really difficult for anyone here to give any specific "opinions" without seeing your swing. Perhaps if you post your driver swing, someone can give some two cents.

[QUOTE][/QUOTE][quote name="Isitthegenes" url="/t/59604/stopping-an-outside-in-swing-pattern-with-the-driver-tip-from-pro-helped-but-is-it-a-fix-or-a-bandaid/18#post_732895"]In looking through all of this, I'm not entirely sure how much of it I can apply - I'm not entirely sure if I have an inside-out or an outside-in. Is a slice fully indicative of an inside out? [/quote] Depends. Are you referring to your driver? If you are, and your are doing slices that start at the target, then that's maybe because of a little too much out to in. If you're fading the ball that starts at the target, then you have a normal good swing. If you push slice, it indicates everything is wrong. Your club face is way too open at impact and have a out to in swing. If you push fade, just your club face is too open at impact. If you hit it dead straight, you didn't hit it on the way up. If you hit a straight pull, you hit the perfect shot. For me, knowing the above, I can easily diagnose my problem on the course or range and change one or two things to limit the severity. Also, it also allows me to have some idea how to really shape the ball by changing BIG things that are easy to see and feel.

Great stuff from Adam again. Education on d-plane makes it as simple as it should be. :-D

About the feel, i agree again. I don't have access to Trackman so when i read/hear about numbers, i can only imagine and try to relate it to something i can see/feel. About the last para, i do similar things as well (tinkering the face) but can't really do as many shapes as you listed here. My eureka moment in my golf adventure just happened last year and i still have a fun and hopefully long journey ahead of me

Great to hear that! Also, about the pulls that were crushed... you gotta love that feeling.

Absolutely in agreement with you there. I wish i could swing more right with the driver and not open my clubface at the same time. It's very difficult to do, at least for me. Anyways, i keep a basic baseline for the driver that i play around with: In a normal perfect swing of the driver, by anyone, where the ball starts towards the target, it's a fade; who would have thought about that before the D-plane?

Those are key for me as well - Balance on balls of feet, just enough axis tilt and one i would like to add is hands/arms under shoulder if you tend to layoff too much in backswing.

IMO it's not a bandaid. it's actually what i think is the right way to hit a driver straight. Body closed to target. Clubface aiming where you want to ball to go. I think if i didn't close my body to the target (body/feet aim right of target), all shots are fade/slice. At least from D-plane, i understand that much. Could be wrong tho

Longbow, according to what i understand, the perfect driver shot is a straight pull. Maybe that's why you felt you hit the best shot but it pulled straight into the trees. Also hitting up on the driver feels really weird compared to any other club which we hit down. What i did was: Really aim body right of target (closed to the target). Aim Clubface to target. Crush it!