Cartboy

Let me be the first to do what many would do, blame the course for allowing a 5-some, and blame the marshal for not getting people to play faster. I started this to try to get more ideas on how to handle slow play. Even in the example of that couple who chose to leave, the best idea I've seen in the 12 years I've been at the course, where pace used to be a lot slower on busy days, is to try to smooth it over with that couple, and when I encountered the asshole in the foursome in front of them, pull out my tablet and ask the couple if I could book them again at our lowest rate. & yeah, in a perfect world, the asshole and his enablers would be sent packing.

KC to FL, then Springfield, MO to FL, twice a year for more than 20 years. Our key was to time it so we did not go through Atlanta at rush our, so our overnight going down was one of the first exits after Atlanta. Coming back, same thing going the other way. Then, Atlanta got so bad that we don't ever go that way any more. Also 30 years ago I got a call on a Saturday morning that I needed to deliver a vehicle to Miami at 7:00 Monday morning. Sure thing, I told them, easey peasey. Not!

Yup . . . "Too many golf courses completing for golfers." A general answer to some of the replies, to try to explain why we run our business the way we do . . . we are in a small regional tourist area that has become a hotbed of excellent golf courses. Three of Golfweek's Top Ten in the State are here. It is highly competitive between us and 6 other courses, and, frankly, the market is not big enough to keep all of them busy. "Running people off" would not be in our best interest. We have as a last resort, but it's not high on our list. "Running people off" would likely get us the reputation of "running people off." As I have said a few times, I prefer us being out there on the course, being encouraging, supportive, and diplomatic, and, when that does not work, to offer the victims of slow play a chance to come back and experience our #1 course under better conditions, at a discount. Turning Lemons into Lemonade. But, understanding my role, it's not my call, and will be what will be.

After 20 years on Internet forums, I find it non-productive to banter with abrasive people who are not party to the facts. It's a lot like trying to deal with an abrasive group on the golf course. Sometimes you just can't; nothing you say or do will make any difference. 😎

I have to say . . . this "Hang 'em High" Attitude might sound good on an Internet forum, but it doesn't float in real life in the golf course business. 🥴

Funny, because the last slow group I had to deal with on our last really busy day, The beverage cart girl told me, "Don't mention me . . . I still have to deal with those pricks." 😀 I came back to mention that on that particular day, my first time around, one of our lady members told me that the beverage cart girl told her that the problem group had been abusive to her. So, things were brewing. The problem group was one in a group of five 4-somes playing together, so when crunch time came, and the problem group had failed to speed up, I went to their leader's group and asked what they wanted done. They said that group is always their problem group, so everyone but the problem group was on the same page.

Ouch! . . . Your words. I would never "run off" anyone, because we prefer to be diplomatic. &, if I/we weren't diplomatic, and did "run off" someone, it would not be the victims. Maybe I didn't explain it properly . . . I was quite surprised to see them at their car, and went and talked to them, and expressed my disappointment to see them leaving. I told them I had hoped they would skip a hole and go around the slow group, but they said they didn't want to. If I had a dollar for every golfer/customer I have spent a moment of quality time with the last 13 years, I could retire. I could, but I wouldn't. 😁 I couldn't have said it better. There are days that when you lose it, there's nothing you can do about it. But being there, and talking to folks, helps. That's when I'd like to pull out the tee sheet tablet and book them another round at a discount, on the spot. In my capacity now, the way the schedule is set up, when I am the only one "out front" in the morning, the Pro or GM/Pro do the marshaling. Our beverage cart girls help keep us informed, too, which is a big help.

Not really a good option when the teesheet is packed. They would have to let every group behind them play through. That's why I ask how many of y'all have marshaled a tough course on a busy day . . . . you will hear every excuse in the book. One of my favorites was a cigar-smoking, smart-talking older guy who had 3 young bucks in his group. They had held up a 2-some all day, and at the third visit from me, on the 12th tee, he read me the riot-act with some choice, colorful words, saying it was the course's fault for allowing 2-somes to play. He said he paid twice what they paid, so he was playing the way he wanted. I went back and talked to the 2-some, a husband and wife, and told them they would have to go around that foursome. Not long later I saw them at their car. They were not upset, but they quit and came in because they did not want to upset the 4-some. See, that's when I'd like to be able to pull out my tablet and see if they wanted to re-play at a discount. BTW, some 2-somes, often couples, won't book unless we block the other two slots at their tee time. Wow! Never heard of that, no-hole-skipping rule. & funny how some slow groups speed up when you play through.

It was 75° the day before yesterday, and it's 10° now. Why didn't you guys skip a hole and go around the ball-shaggers?

Speaking of 4:30 POP, if someone plays in five hours, that is fast, and if someone plays in three hours, that is slow. When you have had to deal with 6 hour rounds, 4:30 seems like a reasonable compromise. When I'm marshaling, it is not "recommended", it is the maximum allowed (in my mind). 😁 In our case, there is some rhyme and reason to 4:30, but you'll have to follow me . . . . Each of our first four sets of four holes has a par 3, a Par 5, and two Par 4s. Bobby Clampett consulted on the course design, and the Par 3 are paced at 12 minutes, the Par 4s at 15 minutes, and the Par 5s at 18 minutes. Figure that out and you will see the each set of four holes in 1 hour. 17 & 18 are Par 4s, so that's another 1/2 hour, and, Wallah!, 4:30. (PS: I'm then only one left of the early employees who knows that.) It's really easy to marshal when you get that four-holes-an-hour ingrained in your brain, but it's amazing how many brains are not ingrainable. BTW, unless I'm really have a good round, if I'm stuck in a 4:30 round, I normally go in. One day this year on the tenth tee I looked at the other guys and said, "Looks like rain. Bye." I'm sure it rained somewhere that day. How many of you have marshaled a tough course on a busy day?

Wow! Thanks! I've been on Internet forum for 20 years, and I can count on one hand how many times I've seen someone actually compliment someone for their comments. So, kudos to you. 😁

some responses . . . Ours would be considered a high-end resort course, too, and challenging, 132 from the most common tee and 126 from the shortest tee. Plus, we are in an older-aged resort area. All that works against pace. Telling people they have to leave is not on our agenda. They would have to be drunk, abusive to the beverage cart girl, or something like that. I do like the idea of spending time with the groups being affected by slow groups, and seeing if we can rebook them at a nice discount. We carry a tee sheet tablet, and can show them tee times for any day, and book them so they are not behind golfers the next time. What I would really like is that (after 10 years) we would have a policy that states what we do, or what we can do, so we know what to do. On days when I open, golfers see me when they pull in because I either greet them at the bag drop or take a cart to them in the parking lot, welcome them, fill them in on our facility, etc. Then I'm the Starter. Then they see me on the course. So, by then they know I'm doing all I can, so if I offer them some sort of replay, they know we're trying.

Another thing I do when I'm driving the cart, and when our balls are relatively close, is I'll "split the difference", park the cart halfway in between, and we both walk to our ball. Sometimes I will stop at the other guy's ball, and walk to mine while he's hitting. Then he drives to me, and I'll be ready to move on. I see a whole lot of a guy sitting in cart while the other one hits, then switching and doing it again, when they could be on the way to the next shot.

Also, when the woods are on the other side of the fairway from the cart path, there's less looking for balls. Plus, it's cart path only because the fairways are sloppy, so there's not a lot of extra walking around. Go to the ball, hit it, go to your cart. repeat Plus, when it's cart path only, the less-abled physically don't play.

Whether they're walking or in carts, that's almost always the case when you watch slow groups. They appear to have no urgency. I am not perfect by any means, but normally when I put a club in my bag, I take out my next club. When I get to the ball, I take two practice swings, then hit it . . . and move on. Well, maybe I am perfect. 😁 I had two guests last year who were extremely slow in everything they did, then they'd hit the ball in the woods/water/whatever. Fortunately, they were in a cart together, so, once I realized the situation, I just went ahead and played each hole at my pace, then waited at the green for them to hit on and putt out. By the back, I think they got the idea. If they think I'm a jerk and don't want to play again, oh well! When I take guests, and they pay $25 instead of $130, I just hate when our group is the one stinking the place up. Last month I got 12 on for $79 instead of the $130, then worried for four hours whether they would be the problem golfers. It seems that some golfers go to the course planning on being -------s. Incidentally, our GM/Pro has pointed out that when we are cart path only we never have slow groups. Serious.

Be careful what you wish for. Because it is the end of the season, so corporate outings and golf junkets have stopped, we have gone from slow play to no play. 😁 &, speaking of combo tees, the member group I sometimes play with has their own version . . . they have "swapped" out some holes we play the forward tee on. Some people don't know, but that's OK, and depending on how much it changes the yardage, you can rate an unrated set of tees following USGA rules, and still post scores. https://misga.org/Guides/Mens Ratings adjustments from unrated tees.pdf Note that if the unrated tees is not more than 54 yards different than a rated set, it does not change anything. Which reminds me . . . a guy I used to play every week with hits me up for cheap golf when he's in the area (fortunately not very often). The last time we played, which is the last time, he had a bad hole, blew up, threw his ball, threw his club, and muttered something about playing cobbled tees. Now my only issue with him when he calls is coming up with a reason why I can't play when he wants. too hot, too cold, too windy, too wet, too dry, too don't want to 😏

Slow pace at our course is mostly because of playing too long of tees. It is a very challenging course in a tourist destination, and golfers make their first mistake on the first tee. For the same distance(s), my Florida courses are sloped around 116, and this course is sloped 130. Our shortest tee, 5300, is sloped 126, and is not easy. When the course opened we soon realized that our shortest "Mens'" tee was too long, being 500 yards longer than other courses' "whites" in our area. One Winter at my Florida course, a co-volunteer mentioned "Combo" tees at his son's course, so I played our course in my mind, and proposed a Combo tee, which the GM, Pro, and owners accepted. That was 7 years ago. But, it is difficult to understand which tee to be on on each hole . . . I have lobbied to make it "White" for several years, which seems to be a no-brainer for everyone except the GM and owners. If we could put down white tee markers, or even just spray paint one of the markers white (Combo) on each hole, it would help. A lot of golfers see "Combo", 5800, and they want to play that yardage, but it takes a bit of explaining, so they default to the 6300 tee. Of course, the young bucks play the 6700 or 7000 or 7300 tees, and a lot of them find out that's a mistake. Funny, the group of mostly-older members that I play with, none of whom have any problem with "distance" like I do, play their own version of the Combo tee, because it's just more fun. I would like to see the course switch to that version, put down white tee markers, and get rid of Combo, but that would take an act of Congress, and we know how hard it is to get Congress to act!!! Some times the simplest things are the hardest to get done.

Yeah, Capitalists that they are. 😁 Actually, the Dad was told No, but I heard him begging, saying he just wanted his kids to play a little golf. That happens when you're #1 in the state for 7 years running. go figure

and, speaking of walking, we don't allow it, but right in the middle of our full-tee-sheet morning yesterday, a guy showed up with his three sons. (My 3 sons?) None of the boys were old enough to have a driver's license, so they could only take one cart, and two of the boys had to walk. In addition to that being a pace problem, the turn does not come back to the clubhouse. It is along walk back. So, I showed him how to . . . if and only if there is no one on 15 that they would be cutting in front of . . . play 16, 17 and 18, and be back.

Yes. When the tee sheet is full, 100% of the groups behind the slow group are slow groups. 😁

We carry tablets, and can show them the tee sheet for any day, and book them while we're talking to them.

Yes, there is no easy fix. No one likes slow play and no one likes to be told they're playing slow. Everyone now is an internet critic, too. I like the idea of spending time with the people behind the slow group, and offering them another round at a discount. Happy golfers and more revenue. It's pretty much a thankless job, but we'll to be out there trying. I've been trying at this course for 11 years. We are in a touristy, golf-junket destination with a decent selection of top-notch courses. 3 of the top 6 courses in the state, plus some decent lesser ones. GM/Pro said the 5-tee-time-with-a-slow-group group got a big discount, and he'll remember them. A few more weeks and it's Winter in FL for me. 😁

All of these slow-play stories sound the same The other day we had a full tee sheet, with five 4-somes of golf-junket guys starting it off. Our course is situated so that we can see the 8th fairway (kinda a 2-hour marker) from the club house. So, I told the GM I would keep an eye on that, as well as being the starter. Well, their first group was right where they were supposed to be, the ninth tee, but their second group was on the sixth green. I politely advised them and they agreed to speed up and they said they would catch up with their first group. Going on, to smooth things over with the groups behind them, a member group said the beverage cart girl said the slow group had been abusive to her. Incidentally, the slow group was the youngest, most athletic, most fit of the five groups. Next time around, the slow group was one hole further behind, on a 5:15-5:30 pace. I called our GM/Pro for advice, which was to go to their first group (three holes ahead) and ask them what they wanted done. They said to tell them to skip hole(s) to catch up. They said that group is always a problem. As the slow group came to the 12th tee, I stopped them and told them to skip that hole, and then catch up with their first group after that. Of course, "no one was pushing them . . . they were playing a match . . . blah, blah, blah." I told them this wasn't my idea, this was their group's idea. Skip this hole, and then pick up pace. "No, we'll just speed up." "You said that last time, and now you're a hole further behind. Skip this hole or don't skip this hole, that's up to you . . . you've been told what to do. I can't imagine how taking more than five hours to play a round of golf is fun for that group or anyone behind them." They were the 8:10 tee time, and when I left at 1:00, they were on the 18th green . . . and the GM/Pro thanked me for getting them under 5 hours. So, just this week both the GM/Pro and I have been told to FO, literally or figuratively. There's no easy fix. Slow golfers are slow golfers, and they all have their excuses. Those who think there's an easy fix to slow play probably haven't had to deal with slow play other than to bitch about it.

My swing/grip/etc. was so unorthodox that I have always been afraid that would happen. I never wanted anyone to try to fix it. Then, a couple years ago an older guy I play with suggested something very do-able when we were on the range. Starting with the high school golf team, I've been playing for 55 year, and my ghin-dex has dropped five in the last two. I was a regular 90-95 and my last two rounds were 83.

I dunno . . . I can shoot 100 in three hours pretty easy. 😀 After 13 years in this business, I've decided we can ruminate all we want, and do whatever we think will help, and slow golfers will always play slow and fast golfers will always play fast. Everyone I play with the first time says at least once during the round, "You sure play fast." I always answer, "Yeah, normally everyone is still talking when I hit." If everyone's shut up. I know I took to long.