MickeyBlue

I have tried to make adjustments to my swing but it never seemed to work too much. I will play around at the range next time I go. I don't play enough I feel to completely change my swing. I have had the same swing for many years and feel if I can get a driver to fit my swing I know I can repeat my swing. I know I might not ever have the perfect driving stats but if I could increase my launch angle to 10-12 I would be very happy. I could always to continue to hit my 3 wood or hybrid off the tee but one if these days I need to find a drive I can hit. Thanks for your input. Maybe when I get older and have some more time I will take some lessons. I might just have to go get fitted at a real fitting place with access to lots of shafts and heads.

I am in need of a new driver to match my swing. I buy a new driver off the rack every other year and I still have lots of problems of the tee. I am a 7 HC and just got a set of custom fit irons. First time in my whole life (31 years). I found out I needed my irons at 3 degrees of lie up. I have a upright swing. This made a huge difference for my ball striking with my irons and it made me realize I need to order a custom driver as I never looked at the numbers until recently. I currently have a 107-110 MPH swing Speed with a ball speed of about 155. My launch angle is around 8 degrees( I de-loft my clubs with a twelve degree loft driver callaway FT). Rmps on my current drives are around 3200-3400 RPMs). I tend to hit the ball low and my misses are left. My drives go about 240-260. When I kill one 280. I was looking for suggestions on club head, shaft, and length of driver. I am 5'9" and was thinking I should have a 44" driver not my current 45.5. I was also wondering if I can change my lie to match my irons which is 3 degrees up or if I should. I am interested in a 430 cc driver head with 12 degrees of loft. I am also thinking I need a low kick/ high launching stiff shaft. ( one that can really help me get the ball up). Any suggestions on certain shafts or club heads would be great. If you need more information please let me know. Thanks.

I have a question. I am not sure if I want to pay for a full driver fitting. I have a strong idea of my swing. I have around a 107 mph swing speed with my driver. I have about a 7 degree launch angle. I tend to miss with. Snap hook or a really low drive. I need a driver with a high loft and a shaft that launches the ball with a spin of 2700 rpm. Drives go about 240-260 currently. Any suggestions on a good shaft for my swing speed and the need to get the ball up? I am think of getting the SLDR 430 cc driver with a custom shaft. I am also 5'9 and thing of ordering the shaft at 44". Please help. L

Yes I have seen the website for this place. I think it does help that they are in a downtown setting so golfers have little options if they want to hit balls. I am thinking of a place like this but a little larger with a small lounge/ bar area. Thanks for the info. [quote name="WUTiger" url="/t/72955/indoor-golf-center-bar/36#post_958574"]This ties into a discussion which popped up at TM "Loft Up" day at the local GGalaxy. The St. Louis area had a lot of snow this year, but the golf pro didn't seem to think an indoor range was that good an idea. He said even in snowy years, it wouldn't make much $$ during the warmer months. What do you do with it? In St. Louis, someone ran an indoor golf range in the old Armory building back in the 1980s. The building also had some tennis courts, and a small restaurant and bar. Couldn't make a go of it: lots of indoor space, but it generated very little revenue. For your idea, if you had an indoor driving range and restaurant/bar area, next to some softball fields for warm weather, you might make a go of it. I agree with others that you would need some warm-season revenue sources once the snow melts. [/quote] Yes, this seems to be a common thought that I can't really argue with. There needs to be some business in the summer months. I never thought about being located near softball fields, or some other outdoor venue that my gain me some business just because I'm close. I will keep that in mind. [quote name="4quarters" url="/t/72955/indoor-golf-center-bar/36#post_958600"]I too have not read through the entire post, but I want to contribute too. Full disclosure, I am a partner in a business that sells, rents, and operates golf simulators. The money is in the winter months for sure, but you do not open a business based on golf simulators, you open a bar/restaurant that has golf simulators as a form of entertainment for your patrons. The key is not to overspend on the equipment, unless you are in NYC, then you can afford to overspend. Indoor golf business start ups should not invest in equipment that is over $30K, your lease payment will crush you, all it takes is one bad month. Secondly, the biggest mistake is going it alone. Piggy back, there are tons of businesses out there that would love to add sims, but are afraid. Capitalize on that fear. Make a deal to put some sims in 2-3, I recommend start with two have room for 3, and grow into it. No set rent amount, the business that you place them in, will get a small percentage of the pay per play money, plus negotiate for them to give you a refundable deposit. Do not set up an agreement to be there for a lifetime, only for 3-4 years, the time it takes to pay off the equipment. Let the deposit be the amount the lease company will ask to incept the lease. A good indoor golf business from November to Mid March should do about $1500 per sim every week. This is generated from an indoor golf league Monday - Thursday, slower days so it is okay. Then peak time is Friday - Sunday. Think about it, the place that you put the sims in, makes more money from food and beverage. While you make money from the pay per play. Plus, their employees oversee the use of the equipment, and it is on their utilities, and you only pay the location a small percentage of your net income after lease payment. No employees (except for paying the sim company to provide regular maintenance - so you do not have to worry about it, this should be part of the costs before figuring out your net profit that you share), rent (if you want to call it that) is based on what you make. Plus, you can tap their existing clientele, which is usually built in, especially if you propose this to a golf course near you, but it only really works if they have a bar/restaurant already. Why pay over $2500 - $5000 for rent, and at $12 per hour in NY, after payroll taxes, your employee can cost you up to $15 per hour or more. If you are open 45 hours, then that is $675 per week right there. Problem is that most indoor golf entrepreneurs want a place to call their own, it is about the image rather than the investment. Keep it all about the money. That is how November - March will make you approx. $30K net over 5 months. Heck shut down in the spring, they will be calling you to put them back up in May because of rain, night, and something to do while they eat their wings and drink their beer. [/quote]. This is an interesting take on it. I head this from someone outside this forum as well. I am not sure of many establishments near me that could accommodate a golf simulator. Most are pretty small spaces to begin with. I might look into this in other surround communities. The thing is if I can make it a full time job I am not sure I want to do it at all. I would rather just let me money work for me in the market. However if I did this at like five places in different towns if might generate enough income to work. Again, thanks for the information and the different spin on it. I think I need to visit a few of these places this summer and again next winter and get a feel for how many people come through their doors each day both in the fall/winter/spring/summer.

I purchased my new irons from golf galaxy a few weeks ago. I was happy with the service. I think I was there for 2+ hours and the salesman was fine with me asking for 9-10 sets to try. He actually told me to try another set that I had not asked to try after about an hour hitting balls. Turns out that is the set I ended up purchasing. (MP-4's). Still not sure I made the right choice as I've never played blades but I will find out this spring. They sure felt good in the simulator though. Disclaimer this was my first club fitting of my life so I have nothing to base this off of. They fitted me for my shaft, length, and lie. I have a very upright swing and they needed to change my lie by almost 4 degrees. Sure made a huge difference on contact for me once this was done.n I would go back to GG for new clubs unless someone told me there was a better place for me to go.

I agree that my idea would do little to no business from May-August. Business would slowly increase again in Sept-October when football starts and the weather starts to turn. But really the money would need to be made from Nov-thru mid April. My business plan shows no revenue during May-August and then slowly increasing from there. Where I am from you can't buy land for a driving range that is convenient enough for people to get to. The land is just to expensive now. Again my overhead being extremely low for this business is the only way it works. Try to go too big and you will not have enough of a market to support it. There are only so many golfers that actually need to play in the winter. These are the people I am thinking of catering to. My facility would be now more than 15 mins from a population of 130k people. If I can get 1% of these people to spend 300 each throughout the winter I would have 390,000 in revenue. This would sustain the business. I just don't know if I can get that. 40k of those people live in areas that have a median household income of 100k which is high. 17k of which is plus 150k. This is my target market.

That place looks really nice. They did it right. I know you stated you don't like simulators to much but what was your thoughts on the aboutgolf sim? I was looking into those? I agree people that drink too much and golf clubs could be a problem.

I would tend to agree with you. I want to go to a place that caters to golfers but also offers beer and basic food. I don't think I need to spend tons of money on the food as I don't think it's the draw. The draw is the golf and beer. As long as the pizza is good guys will be ok with it. I think? I could be wrong. There was a place in MO that opened and closed within 1-1/2 years. The place looked great but I believe they went to big. They had 10+ simulators I think, full big bar, full kitchen all in a 10,500 sq ft facility. They tried to be everything to everyone. I just think their overhead with loans, staffing, inventory, lease rate was probably to much to support. It would be my dream to have owned this place if it worked because it looked really nice but finacially it would have been a nightmare. Link. http://teesgolfgrill.com/about/

I understand where you are coming from. If I was at a bar that had a simulator I might use it once or twice a winter. The thing is this will not support the cost of the simulator nor do I think I sell much more alcohol. I would basically be a bar/restaurant. I do not want to compete in this space. There are way to many options of bars people can choose from and me having a simulator is not going to pull in that many more people. Bars succeed based on how many women ( hopefully hot) that you can get into your place every night. Guys go where hot girls hang out and I can guess hot girls won't want to hang out at a sports bar with golf simulators, and golfers won't want to go there because there are drunk people there all the time. I would be trying to be something for everyone but in the end would be nothing for everyone. I do get that pricing has to be at a point that is reasonable or people will only do it once a winter. Getting them to spend $20 extra drinking while they play 18 with their buddies is key to driving revenue. The overhead at a place you describe would be to high for me personally anyways. Thanks for your input. It does make me think.

Just had a chance to take a look at the website link. That place looks really nice. This is the quality of place I would like to open. I sure hope business picks up so you can enjoy this place for many years to come. I know I would be there often if it was near my house as well.

I have been to a top golf about 40 minutes from my house. Had a really great time the few times I've been with my buddies. If it were closer I would be there once a week probably. Ha. My friends and I all said it would be really cool to own one. It has everything you could want. The thing is to start one is 10 times the expense than the business I'm looking into. The land and build out would be well over a million dollars I would assume. This is something that would be too rich for me. Those reading this I would recommend going with your buddies one day if you haven't been before.

You are correct a business plan is a must. Thank you for the recommendation of business plan pro. I will look into it. I would anticipate getting a small business loan for such a new idea (these centers have been around 10 years maybe) would be difficult. I will look at all options but assume I might need to take out a Helco loan and fund the rest with savings.

Thanks, I will certainly be spending some time on this site. That is when the wife isn't bugging me to do something. I had a chance to read some other threads before posting and found most of them informative and/or entertaining. Cheers

Yes, half hour installments of range time for like 13 bucks for sure. I have done this a few time and I really enjoy it. Great feedback from the machine. I was really interested in my ball speed and launch angle at one point and this information was given on every hit. This is a tough market so not sure if the business end of this we make sense or not but I am going to get as much information as possible to make an educated guess.

I will keep you posted. I can tell you new machines will run 40-60k for a good machine. A used machine a few years old in good condition would be about half that 20-30k. I do not have concrete upkeep numbers but would assume 1k per machine for the first year and increase that by 20% each year compounding. Again, no hard numbers here just assumptions. I would guess a good new system would have a shelf life of at least 8-10 years if not more. I would get all this information before I go ahead with this. I am in phase one of 20 if you know what I mean. Still a lot to work out. Lease rates are key and keeping your overhead down without sacrificing customer service. Install is around 2-3k I believe for a simulator and 1k or so for shipping. Cost are each prices. Remember if you ever opened up your own business there is a lot if hidden costs. Lawyer Account 3% of all credit card purchases or so Paychex or another company like them would also take a cut 1-2% for providing credit card machine( they would also do your taxes and payroll). Employer social security Worker comp You pay extra for taxes for yourself, like 7-8% because you are the employer plus your normal tax rate. Insurance Liquor insurance if you serve beer,wine, (booze maybe) Utilities Lease rate Loan payments Cable/internet Cleaning company Inventory Misc repairs And I am sure more things I can't think of at the moment.

I agree days would be harder to fill than nights. Would need to tap into the retired crowd and college crowd while home on winter break. I would plan on being open from sept-April. Figured sept would be more of a weekend thing with guys coming in to play and watch college/nfl football with their friends. I was not going to count this in my revenue forecast however as I would not bank on it. I figure for my area mid October thru march is going to be the time I make the bulk of my money with jan, Feb, and march being the most busy. I do not own a space so my lease would be 12 months a year. This is factored in on my yearly operating costs. I agree I need to get more concert budget numbers from current owners. I think I will reach out to some places not in my area and see if they could provide me with basic information. IE. average number of visitors per week. Average weekly gross on beer/food sales from golfing customers/ would they recommend/ any advice, etc. Thanks agin for your insight. I will keep people posted on any developments if I get to the point of going ahead with this. Thinking next year or the year after if ever.

I could see more serious golfers using heated ranges. I do know plenty of good golfers as well that like going to the indoor golf center 35 mins away from us. We all agree the outing and chipping sucks but we feel the irons and drives are pretty accurate. I do think we go more for time out with the guys as a social night as well though. Thanks for your input.

I agree up keep is key. One of the places I played had a hole at the bottom of the screen where you putted. Very annoying. I would use adjustable tees for sure and would look into getting the best possible mat for the hitting area not the cheap kind most places seem to use. I agree service needs to be on point and losing beer revenue is not a good thing. People want a beer offered to them when they are 2/3 done with their current beer. Certainly not 15mins + after finishing one. I would be the sole owner but would hire someone I trusted to be the GM and split managing duties with me. I would also have extra staff for weekends or when business dictated it. No high school kids would work for me. Good luck if you start one with your buddy. I would at least look into used simulators if I were you are the savings for a few year old equipment is over 50% of new. I have counted like 10 places that have gone under in the last three years which is good for used equipment but also gives you pause if you are to open one yourself. Thanks for the input and advice.

30 per hour seems to be pretty standard unless you play in a downtown setting, New York, Chicago, etc. it hanks for the link. I hope they stay open as well for you. Great way to get out if the house with your buddy's and swing the club in the winter.

Thanks for the input. I to recently played St. Andrews and shot 81. Love the simulators just not the putting and chipping. Gets me every time.

I agree, there needs to be a place, at least a few tables near the small bar with a TV for people to sit before/after their round. My early revenue projections show the simulator business would cover my costs to run the place with some left over but the beer/ wine sales would drive 36% of my profits assuming I get 35 people on average in the door each day for 160 days and each person averages $9 profit from beer/wine/ food sales (ie pizza/light food). I have been to some of these places in my area(35 min drive) and they seem to alway be pretty busy but I am not there enough to fully understand how many people they get daily. I never see people just hanging out drinking if not golfing though at this place. Because of this I do not want to have to large of a bar/ table area as space is money but some form of waiting area would need to be accounted for. I do not think non golfers would come in enough to justify a full fledge bar/dinning/ full kitchen. If I had 5 simulators with an average of 14 hours a days of available rental time how many hours do you think it would be used? 5 simulators x 14 hours gives me 70 total hours of possible rental per day. If I can rent them 50% of the time each day that gives me 35 hours. If each hour was rented for an average of $25 it comes to $875. I am not sure if 50% is high or low. If each of those 35 people averaged (understanding some would spend 0 and others 20+) $9 profit I would make $315 a day on bar/food. ( was thinking domestic beer for $3 and imports $4). Totaled I would make $1,190 a day. Take that by 160 days and the estimated revenue would be $190,400. With these numbers my idea just doesn't seem to work very well as operating costs per year would be around 140-150k. Not to mention start up costs although loan for simulators factored into the operating costs per year. The startup would still take 50-70k for the bar/flooring/sign/accountant/lawyer/ sign/ etc. Do people think I am under estimating utilization of 50% on the simulators? Do you think I am under estimating my bar/food sales of $9 on average per person? Thanks all. Any input will help. Sorry for the long posts.

I am a new member who has really enjoyed this website. There seems to be plenty of golf addicts out there like myself. I was looking for some advice/comments/ideas on setting up an indoor golf business in the suburbs of a major city with winter lasting around 5 months. I would envision this facility having 5 aboutgolf simulators to use. Would offer beer, wine, and lite food. I would assume most people would only come to play golf so I was thinking of only having a small bar( four chairs) and the rest of the facility being 5 sims and bathrooms small kitchen. Each bay would have its one simulator/seating for four/ and TV. I have read about a lot of these places going under in the last 3 years and I think it is because they have too big of a facility, to many simulators, and are not located within 15 minutes of a dense population with high incomes. How much would you pay weekday/ weekend to play 9 holes? How much would you pay weekday/ weekend to play 18 holes? How many times do you think you would use a facility like this during the winter months (Nov-mar) for practice? How many times do you think you would use a facility like this during the winter months (Nov-mar) to play 9 or 18 holes? what would be most important as customer to you in going to a place like this? How many beers on average would you drink per 18 on a simulator with friends? What would you pay for a domestic beer? What would you pay for an import? How long do you think a league should last? IE start one from nov-dec and another from jan-March? Any thoughts, comments, advice would be very helpful. I do not want to go ahead with this business venture until I have more information. Have a family to think about and they come first. Thanks