Roenie

That's exactly not what I'm getting at. 😄 I believe that red line in the left picture (=toe hang blade putter) is the amount a toe balanced putter puts you closer to the ball because in the right picture (= face balanced mallet) the entire upper section of shaft has shifted toward the middle of the face. So without changing the shaft's actual lie angle, you still end up closer to the ball. The shaft where it leaves the clubhead runs vertical for longer before it starts to bend sideways. On the toe hang putter as shown in the image, that shaft starts to bend sideways much earlier. Which does affect how far you stand from the ball, even if the shaft enters the head at the same point. Geometry Einsteinage yo. He was way ahead of his time with the lockdown hairdo. That's kinda my point: it changes the distance between clubhead and player without changing the shaft's lie angle. It shifts the whole upper part of the shaft sideways less. Unless of course I've made an error in my thinking or there's something else I don't know about. Thanks for the advice. How tall are you? Is yours a face balanced putter, and if so, does it now still "face balance" when balanced on a finger horizontally? Yeah I think it requires a lie angle decrease plus very small shaft length increase to get it to the same spot as a toe hang putter with the same lie/length spec. However as I mentioned flattening the lie, even a little, would in theory make a face balanced putter no longer face balanced. I've asked a clubfitter to weigh in on this. I'll let you know what he says. Regards P.S. my thread opening post originally also included applying the pythagorian theorem, but I found a way to simplify and shorten the explanation. 😄

Here's an image to clarify my point: (Couldn't edit the above post anymore.) If you have to flatten the lie of the club on the right to get the same distance from the ball as the one on the left, the shaft will of course be pointing beyond the middle/CG and face balanced becomes slightly toe up balanced... (only adding shaft length would raise the hand position and affect posture)

If I'm not mistaken, putter shaft length is measured along the shaft down an imaginary line to where it would intersect with the sole. The shaft of a toe hang putter that has a hosel (plumber's/flare/slant neck) points more toward the heel. The shaft of a face balanced putter points to the middle of the face where the center of gravity typically is. So for a face balanced putter shaft length is typically measured from the middle of the face putting you closer to the ball whereas for toe hang putters it's measured from closer to the heel, placing you farther from the ball. Or do manufacturers compensate for this somehow? The height of the grip end (distance between it and the ground) given the same shaft length I don't think changes noticeably between the two putter types because as the bend that creates the lie angle in a (double bend) shaft is raised up from the clubhead compared to where the kink is in a slant/plumbers neck hosel putter, creating a longer vertical section, the shaft measures longer by roughly the same amount because 70 degrees (the angle with which it the shaft points to the middle of the sole) isn't far from vertical, maths wise. Question: I have to position my eyes well inside the ball in order to see line correctly. If you want to maintain the same distance from the ball and replace a toe hang putter with a face balanced (double bend) one, would the latter require a flatter lie specification?

The reason it wanted to turn (prior to tour bag kit installation), is due to the off center design of the support (drawn in red), the part of the support shown in the bottom right of the photo wanted to slip inside the bag base's indentation. Golf bag and cart manufacturers should create a standards organization, so that every bag will fit every cart. We wouldn't be able to use this website if there weren't standards for how computers communicate.

I did, and I did! The Cobra King 2018 cart bag initially wasn't a great fit on the Clicgear push cart. Cart bags have an indentation underneath. Where said indentation ends, there is a 90 degree angle to the plastic and that's exactly the spot where the bag makes contact with the bottom bag support of the clicgear. I was worried about instability as well as too much pressure on that edge, which could make it crack over time. For some reason the clicgear's bottom bag support is also positioned off to one side. Not sure why it's designed like that - I had to check that it wasn't unique to mine. The bag wanted to turn. Forgive me for using a picture from a different bag for the illustration: The arrows are the points of contact, before installing the tour bag kit. The rest of the support beam/rods bend down away from the bag hence doesn't make contact. With the kit installed the bag sits more upright, effectively moving the bottom support (drawn in red) forward under the bag about half an inch. Just enough to clear the edge. I have a sun mountain 3.5 stand/carry bag here that has a completely flat base. I haven't tried it but I see no reason why that wouldn't fit on the clicgear cart, especially with the "bag cozy" accessory for the top, so the legs have a place to go. So my experience is the opposite to yours. This is what happens when an industry doesn't work together to create standards. In Florida it's probably easier to find a golf store with lots of bags and carts, than it is over here. I agree it's the way to go if you have the opportunity.

They have a solution for stand bags, called a bag cozy. The legs sink into the gaps. Hope you can get back to playing soon.

For the sake of sharing as much info on winter wheels as I can for anyone finding this thread in the future, I should add that besides Motocaddy, Stewart also offer proper winter wheels for their R1-S push cart. I'm personally not a fan of a small front wheel so it's still clicgear + hedgehogs for me.

The most important aspect would be how comfy the shoulder straps are, how well the load is spread between them, and how heavy it is, because I get some neck/shoulder issues every now and then. I'm in the featherweight category, so a stand bag + clubs + accessories + water is a relatively large percentage of body weight to be toting around. That's why I typically prefer to use a push cart, and why I focused on getting a better cart bag first.

Hey Marv, thanks for your reply. I'm getting a Clicgear 3.5 which is somewhat notorious for being bad for stand bags - the legs can cause the bag to rotate on the cart. I wanted a cart bag to go with it for the storage capacity and I might as well go that route since weight is less of an issue with it being supported on a cart. What I was looking for doesn't seem to exist, so given the choice between practicality or tour bag-esque looks, I've pulled the trigger on the Cobra King 2018 cart bag. A bag needs to be functional, first and foremost. I'll probably pick up a stand bag later this year. My current one's bottom plastic crumbled into a hundred little pieces. The part it stands on, so now it's just a hollow tube. I'm going to need a new stand bag for when it's too wet for the push cart, or when I only want to bring a few clubs to the range. I'm open to suggestions. It would need to hold 9 or 10 clubs for walking the course.

I agree, except proper winter wheels. They don't really, just the slip-on hedgehogs. Which you can tell from the reviews on that page, can be quite a pain to deal with. That said, there's downsides to every brand of push cart. I only found one brand (Motocaddy) with proper winter wheels available - and I'm not even sure if these are only for their electric carts or not, but if not I'd still be pushing a smaller front wheel through the rough all year long only for it to pay off during winter rounds not having to deal with hedgehogs, november through end of march. The months in which I play the least golf, obviously. I bit the bullet and ordered myself a clicgear 3.5+ along with the adjustable umbrella holder, a nice big canopy on a stick that I hope will fit in it (H2NO 68"), and a new cart bag (Cobra King 2018). Should be quite the upgrade from my 2 wheeler pull cart + cheap & aging bag setup. Dealing with medical problems lately so I'm allowing myself a bit of fun. Still on the fence about getting a spare set of wheels for the cart (€70) just to be able to permanently screw/glue the hedgehogs treads (€45) onto them. Means I could swap wheels before winter, and swap back after, without having to deal with mounting and unmounting the rubber treads to just one set of wheels. Getting them on, and getting them to stay on can be a pain because the provided mounting clips don't do their job very well. At least that seems to be the consensus, so most people use zip ties to secure them, and they still can slip off the wheels sideways under load. I guess I'll have to see how that goes. Thanks for the replies.

I'm trying to find a practical push cart bag that holds its shape better than the ones made from supple nylon. I like the look (not necessarily the size) of a tour bag but they can't be used on a push cart. The only candidate I've been able to find so far is a 2018 Mizuno Pro cart bag which isn't practical. (No full length dividers even though it has a 14-way top - that's the worst combo, flimsy rain hood, cool/beverage pocket is smaller than 1 soda can, almost all its pockets are very small and there's no front top pocket higher up for the range finder.) Any suggestions for other ones I should be looking at? Note: I practically never ride, only walk (push/pull cart), so preferably no handle bar at the top rear of the bag because my wedges would wedge themselves between it and the bag. But I can always hacksaw it off... Plan B is a Cobra King 2018, which is made of flexible nylon, so not what I really wanted as it won't hold its shape like a tour bag would, and it's pricey, but at least it's a practical bag. (Perfect range finder pocket at the top, with zippered top lid that I imagine you can leave unzipped while push carting around.) Thanks for any suggestions.

What push carts exist for which the manufacturer has winter wheels available? I'm having a hard time finding them. At my local course, winter wheels / hedgehogs are mandatory for many (winter) months each year and I'm looking to upgrade from my 2 wheel pull cart to a push cart. I've noticed that Clicgear seem to make the most reliable cart (source: amazon reviews) but they don't offer winter wheels, only slip-on "hedgehogs" to fit over the regular wheels. I've read horror stories about those slipping off, and being a pain to install in general. Not to mention the accessories are very expensive, including the bag for storage/transporatation. Further requirements: a strap/bungee at the bottom bag support is a must, and a deal breaker. A two wheel hand activated brake would be great. I don't like small front wheels, because they're harder to push over bumpy surfaces / rough where I spend a lot of my time. 😉 I know some prefer to carry in winter, but for me that's not an option unless I play with half a set of clubs. I'm in Europe, so any brands unavailable in the EU are off limits. Shipping cost from the US would be prohibitive. Thanks. P.S. I can see one alternative would be to buy a Clicgear 3.5+ and an extra set of wheels, plus hedgehogs and screw or glue them on. It's an option, but a very, very expensive one.

Getting very off topic here, but the etiquette/rules exam I passed with flying colours. Then, another barrier to entry to the championship courses is to get your hcp you need a marker for your qualifying round, someone who already has a hcp registered. Well, my golf buddy didn't have one registered either. If the local club was more like a "normal" sports club instead of a restaurant with bar and a pro shop (a money making machine) it might have been easier to make friends with more experienced golfers. I even e-mailed the club secretary to find a marker. No members applied.

...as I wasn't allowed to play any par 4/5 courses without a handicap to my name, it's the way it works here. You have to take an etiquette & rules theory exam as well as play a qualifying round and obviously pay for hcp registration at a club. It's such a big barrier to entry that now my short game far outclasses my long game. Best I've done at the par 3 course is 7 over (9 holes), so you can work out the rest from there. I've only played par 4s and 5s a few times, and last season I got the "ok" from the local pro to use the championship course. I prevent this by leading with the hands plus a more sweeping attack angle. Doesn't mean I like the wedge. It's one chunky bugger. :)

None means none, as in, never played a qualifying round. Planning to this season though. High for sure, but my short game's not bad having played par 3 courses for a few years. I own a high bounce, relatively wide soled SW and yes it's like cheating. You can chuck it down at the sand as hard and steep as you like, it's not going to dig anyway. I have no problems giving up some of that for increased versatility. I'm going to have to as well, playing a 3 wedge setup. What I dislike about the high bounce, wide sole SW is how it plays off the mats at a local par 3 course. Basically a bare lie but springy, so if you fat it a little, the wedge bounces back up off the mat and nails the ball with the leading edge.