Tommy

Gas_Can, if I understand you correctly (and I might be reaching here)...is it reasonable to assume that, by adjusting the lie angle, you can adjust for the length of the club i.e. without having to resort to replacing the shafts? Thanks.

As usual Gas_Can, you've provided the most thoughtful AND helpful response. Your explanation is assuring and I will definitely get the lie angles checked. Practically speaking, will the .25 to .5" difference really make any difference. I appreciate there is a signficant difference in the design of the 804.0S and the MP-30, but all things being equal, would it make any difference? Thanks, as always.

Point taken, thanks Erik.

Based on very positive feedback from others in the Forum, I purchased a set of used Mizuno MP-30s several days ago. When I place them side-by-side against my Titleist 804.0S and Ping i5 irons (stock specs) they appear to be approximately 1/2 inch shorter than the Titleists and a little less than the Pings i.e. from 3 to PW. Is this normal i.e. are stock Mizuno clubs cut shorter than Titleists, Pings and other brands? Thanks. EDIT/UPDATE: I just checked the website of all three and the Titleists are .25" longer than the Pings and Mizunos. Appears the ones I purchased were cut down! Practically speaking, will this make any difference? Thanks.

JP, that's very helpful. Thanks. As you explained, I'm hoping to improve my ball striking by using clubs that are less forgiving, provide feedback, but are still playable i.e. at my level. Sounds like the MP30 will do the trick. Thanks again.

Unfortunately, there is quite a price difference between the two. Would you consider the 755s and the MP30 similar clubs?

Sorry, I meant the 755...just edited the original post. Thanks. I thought the MP30s were much less 'cavity' like. You wouldn't agree?

Hi, I have been playing with the Titleist 804 OS irons for the past 8 months and am now ready to move on. My swing has improved significantly during this period i.e. I am much more consistant and am now able to 'shape' the ball more effectively. I had been considering the Titelist 755 as the next logical step until a friend offered to sell me his practically new MP30s for a very reasonable price. I tried several of them at the range today and was very impressed. They are very pleasing to the eye and feel very precise. I hit 5 balls with the 7 iron, they flew dead straight and landed not more than 2-3 feet apart from one another. For me, this was quite an accomplishment. The longer irons also felt and perfomed well. Questions: Are the MP30 a sufficient step up for an improving player i.e. from the 804OS? Which Titleist irons would they be comparable to? Are there any irons from either these or other manufacturers I should be looking at? Thanks for any help.

I posted a 'yes'. Please don't pounce... The reason: There is no doubt that we are witnessing history and that Tiger, like Lance Armstrong, is pushing the limits and taking the rest of us along. We're all striving to break 300 yards on a drive and other feats because, in large measure, of what is has been able to accomplish. He is demonstrating what can be achieved. However, is it boring? For me, it is. I found Vijay's all time low on Sunday more 'interesting' than Tiger's win. Watching Colin Mongomery's facial ticks when he misses a putt and Sergio's leaps are much more entertaining and speak to the human element and character of the game i.e. compared to the artful mechanics of Tiger's play. His wins are predictable - to the extent that they offer no surprise, again, for me. Am I still glad to be able to see him play and witness his accomplishments? Absolutely. Would I prefer to watch a three way tie between Mickelson, Garcia and Donald? I would.

I would recommend ebay. Also, the cameroncollector.com website is a must i.e. if you haven't decided on a particular SC, would like to start collecting or refinish/restore a used one. The members are very helpful and friendly. Be warned, its addictive. I was bought a new Studio Style as a gift several weeks ago and, since then, have collected four more.

Just out of curiosity: where does the Rupture line fit in their line of irons? Is it in between the G5 and I5? Also, is it is considered game improvement, player improvement, player...?

I recently caught the SC bug and have collected the following: SC Studio Style 1.5 SC Studio Stainless 2.5 (presently at the SC Studio) SC Pro Platinum Laguna Two SC Futura I also have: Titleist Bullseye Fisher F-5 Yes Callie Diato Stealth There are a couple of others I have an eye on, if I can find them at a decent price (and when my wife isn't looking ), including: SC Circa '62 No. 1 SC Studio Style 1

I actually hadn't thought of that gas_can, makes sense. I'll ask my favourite haunt whether they can order the 'W' iron. If, for whatever reason, they are unable or unwilling to order one for me, is the Vokey 200 50/8 bent to 51 a reasonable alternative? Also, I presume the bounce would also increase, wouldn't it? Thanks.

Mike, I'm also a huge fan of the 503.H and contemplated the same question. Please let us know how you fair and whether you have been able to bend them...successfully. Good luck!

Thanks very much for your comments everyone. With your affirmation of my thought process and further input from gas_can, I made the decision to pick up the 60/4 on my way home from work. Naturally, I'd like to now complete the set and buy a gap wedge next. My 804.OS pitching wedge is 46 deg. and my sand wedge is 56...quite a spread! Should I keep the 4 deg. spread between wedges and buy a 52 deg. or drop to a 50 deg.? Also, it doesn't appear that Titleist make a SM wedge

I have read numerous threads that cover this subject but hoped that I could get some advise considering my particular circumstances: I live in Vancouver, BC where, as many of you know, we get a significant amount of rain during the spring, fall and winter months. Summers, recently, have been hot and dry. With this in mind, I bought a 56 deg. SM Vokey with 14 deg. bounce to get me through sand bunkers and perhaps, wet rough. However, I have been playing on a few courses recently that are very hard and dry. As a consequence, I've skulled some shots near the green and the balls have shot off to the next fairway. In contemplating the purchase of a 60 deg. SM, I thought I would get one with the 4 deg. bounce to prevent this from happening and give me some flexibility when I'm on a hard and dry surface. Is my logic sound? Is this a reasonable combination? And lastly, I've never quite figured out how much bounce is preferred when the ball is sitting wet, thick and long grass. Any insight would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

Erik, I can't seem to locate the column that you cited called 'Swing Check' - would you please post the URL. Thanks.

SuaSponteMn, Like Thrash13, I am a mid-handicapper and can't say enough about these clubs. I have two sets, the first I bought new for $699 CDN several months ago and the second, I bought used on eBay for ~$280 CDN several weeks ago for travel. Although quite forgiving, they do provide you with the ability to 'work' the ball and you certainly know when you've mishit it. I had posted a question regarding the finish i.e. how easily they can be re-finished as they get 'marked' very easily. Gas_Can explained this was fairly typical and there is no easy way to refinish them. Although I have no experience with the CG4s, I would highly recommend the 804s. You might also want to consider picking up a used set on eBay...

Sorry Erik, I may not have been clear. I understand, normally, shafts are not sticking straight up. Rather, wanted to know whether the design of this SC put your hands behind the ball. Hope that's clearer. Your thoughts? ps: I just joined Sand Trap and have found it a wealth of information and an extremely helpful and supportive community. Great job. Thanks.

Thanks very much sscameron, that's exactly what I needed to know i.e. that at setup, my hands will be behind the ball for this putter. I have always had a straight back and through path, but am trying to develop a open/close path as it feels more natural. With respect to length, the shaft is 35" and I'm approx. 5'10" and have find that it offers greater flexibility with respect to stance. I've certainly heard the arguement that I should be using a shorter shaft... Thanks again for your help.

I just received a Scotty Cameron Newport 2 ( http://www.scottycameron.com/product...ils.asp?id=258 ) as a gift. It is the first putter I have owned with this kind of neck and was a little curious to find the shaft slightly angled to the head of the club i.e. the shaft is not at 90 deg. or perpendicular to the floor. As a consequence, my hands are slightly behind the head of the putter when it is lying flat on the floor. Is this normal for this design or all putters, in general? Please note, I have been using a Titleist Bullseye and Fisher F-5, neither of which make it possible to tell. More to the point, I've never studied a putter as intently as the SC...I can see why there is such a following. Thanks for any thoughts.

Thanks for the tip re: WD-40 and I should be more philosophical as you are, and consider the dings a form of personalizing the clubs. The iron covers? Couldn't agree more, they're worse than a "smidge" tacky...simply wouldn't use them if the clubs didn't get marked up so easily! Thanks again.

Thanks, as always, Gas_Can, I was afraid this might be the case. I would have stuck with the Ping i5s were it not for the excellent feel of the forged clubs. Although more of a game-improvement club, they give me the confidence, control and feel of more advanced players' clubs. Looks like I'll be investing in more emery paper... Thanks again.

I have two sets of the 804.OS clubs that I absolutely love. The first, I bought on eBay - used and very marked up. I thought I would try them before investing in a new set which I subsequently did. These are the first forged clubs that I've owned and am quite amazed how easily they get scratched/marked/dented. Even just getting gently knocked around in the bag while on the course causes marks. I am very careful with them and even use head covers. I have tried emery paper (wetted) and find that helps but certainly not without significant effort and time. Question: Is this typical of forged clubs i.e. how easily they get marked? And secondly, is there a relatively easy means of removing the marks and scratches? Thanks.

Gas-can, thanks very much - that's extremely helpful. I just came back from the range and am convinced its a regular flex. I will definitely take you up on your offer when I have the grip changed. Nevertheless, I have another question for you... Is it fair to say that, in terms of weight and flex, a stiff graphite shaft is 'roughly' equivalent to a regular steel shaft? This may be a naive question, however, my local pro shop is trying to convince me to buy a stiff graphite 15 deg. Titleist 804F i.e. in stead of a regular steel - as they don't have any stock left. Needless to say, I'll give it a try before buying. Your thoughts and thanks again Gas-Can.