saltman

YES! Love the casual day "Sunday Pins"! Probably the worst weekend all summer to have them as well.

I am guessing nearly everyone on this forum was able to play at least 1 round over the holiday. I played everyday and "interesting" things occurred each day. Rant 1 - "Gimmick Holes" - Everyone likes a challenge, but do we really need a par 5 with OB running 10 yards off the fairway to the left and water running 1 yard off the fairway to the right and surrounding the green. Might I add the hole also is played as 3 islands. I can't really explain it, but its a joke of a hole. Rant 2 - "Watch your $%^& ball!" - I got stuck playing with a guy this weekend that was just learning the game. I don't mind playing with these guys, but he rarely hit the ball more than 150 yards and if I wasn't there he would have lost 3 dozen balls. He was constantly searching 50 yards away from where he hit the ball until I would walk over a point out his ball within seconds. He kept saying "man you are ball hawk!", to which I would politely respond..."No I just try to watch the ball until I see it land". Rant 3 - "Know at least something...." - same guy as Rant 2, I am playing in a local tourney next weekend and evidently this chap is playing in it as well. On the 1st tee, he tells me he just picked up the game but shot an 89 last week and then proceeds to wiff 5 times on the 1st tee. Later in the round he hit a ball in the water and dropped on the other side. I politely asked him if he knew the rules in regards to water hazards, OB, lost balls, etc. and he responds..."No". I quickly run through them, but he was too busy texting his buddies. How the $%^ is this guy going to play in a tournament? If I get stuck playing with him in the first round I may withdraw. Bottom line, he has no prayer of actually breaking 150 if played by USGA rules, not a chance! Whew......those are long ones, but now I feel better! Anyone else?

got in 36, 79-77 today first time I have broken 80 in 15 years and then did it back to back. Unfortunately it was on a 65/107 course, but its a tricky little track, still requires golf shots.

Yes. Stroke and distance, it sucks, but thems the rules. As iacas said, get in the habit of hitting a provisional.

If you have no major physical limitations, then yes you can be a single digit handicap. You have done triathlons, being a single digit handicap is kind of akin to going under 3 hours in an OLY distance try. You might be able to do it very quickly if you are gifted, but its going to take more than a modest amount of work to get there for most people and it depends on what your athletic history is. All that being said, I am 100% positive you CAN do it based on little the fact that you are (only) 35 and can run 5 miles.

RC, no offense taken at all. I understand what you are saying, I totally understand what iacas is saying. I just don't think its so black and white. Anyway, I think we both treat our opponents they way we would appreciate being treated. I think a lot of it is situational, depends on how well you know the course etc. They are places on my home course that I have never ever found a ball (at least not my own) nor could it possibly be played. It is rare to actually benefit from the rules. They seem to have thought of everything.

If anything if I actually holed out or even hit a great shot, I would likely give it a cursory search. As an opponent, I would ask if the player wants help finding his/her ball. Its his/her right and responsibility to search.

apologies, you are correct I should have said it implies it may be lost. You win. However....to your point, taking it upon yourself to search for your opponents ball when by the very definition you presented below is the responsibility of the player or the player's caddie is, in my opinion, is just poor form. Just like calling a penalty on someone for inadvertantly stealing honors. Its just petty bush league. I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself. Again, I am not talking about a ball that is clearly in play. I am talking about a ball that has little chance of actually being found. Some players simply want to take their medicine and move on with their round rather than spend 5 minutes looking for a ball with a bad swing festering in their head. I don't agree with your opinion of this person being shady as if there is no gray area here. There are situations when it could be shady yes, but not all and in my opinion the measure of that is if it is very clear the ball is likely to be lost. Feel free to call me shady or a person who does not play by the spirit of the game if you so choose. Somehow I have been able to generate a hell of a lot of friends from my years as a competitive golfer so I doubt I have done too many things wrong unless I just manage to find the shady players as friends.

Final point. Provisional does not imply you are going to search, it implies the ball is already LOST! Searching for the ball is very clearly at everyone's discretion. You are correct, its usually better to find it, except when it isn't.

What about an unmarked drainage ditch in the middle of the fairway? Whats even more interesting is that if it is unmarked and dry I presume you would still not be able to ground your club. That could get confusing. I love how its the responsibility of the committee, BUT not really.

Once again as I mentioned we disagree far more than I can believe. I played competitive golf at a very high level as well and I just don't view this as being shady in the least bit. If the player hits a miraculous shot and saves bogey (or in the rare case par) kudos, nice job. What I think is out of the spirit of the game is to search for a ball in an attempt to ensure a player will be penalized more . I think THATS bush league. I don't care if it happened on BB or not, its not how I will teach my kids to play. Go beat your opponent by focusing your own game. I am not trying to get all bent out of shape, I just don't know how in one breath you can say its "stupid" to not search for you ball and then in the next breath point out an example in which it clearly isn't better. You have to declare it was a provisional before you hit the ball. Its not as if you knew you were going to hit a phenomenal shot, you always hope before you hit the provisional that you will in fact find your ball. So its actually "stupid" (but apparantly better ettiquette??) to declare it unplayable immediately, there is alwasy the odd chance that it kicked out and became playable. And I don't think anyone is suggesting that if the ball is in plain sight it shouldn't be played. But to go look for someone's ball in the weeds AFTER (or should I say because) they hit a great provisional shot is pure bush league.

Chill....I just said I have been guilty of the same thing. I agree he shot 84 and should be very pleased. I was just pointing out how unlikely it is that a 30 handicapper would EVER shoot a legit 84. This guy isn't a 30 handicapper and its certainly not an insult to suggest he probably doesn't know all the proper rules. Who amongst us does? Anyway moving on... Dude, great round! Well done! Have fun with this game! Apologies if I offended in anyway.

Whoa!! I am way better than I thought! 113? That can't be right can it?

It was a funny comeback. props! I was not at all trying to be mean. I think the OP is probably better than he originally gave himself credit for....but part of me thinks a little bit that maybe someone that doesn't understand handicaps maybe missed a stroke here or there also, but maybe not I wasn't there. Not suggesting that is an integrity issue, just a knowledge issue. This is a complicated game! I have been playing golf for a long time and I readily admit that I still run into situations where I just make an assumption on the likely penalty and move on. I wasn't trying piss in the guys cheerios at all. I shot 84 2 weeks ago and was pleased, but thinking back it was really probably 85-87 as I lost a ball and played it as lateral to save time and was given a couple putts. I kid you not the ball was lost in the middle of the fairway.

sorry Slim, I missed your last post. Yep, you got it. Like I said, i wouldn't hold it against a player at all if he didn't want his ball to be found and I wouldn't bother searching if he wasn't. Also, that being said, I would never immediately declare it unplayable and re-tee. If I really thought it was lost OR at best unplayable, I choose lost a play a provisional, maybe it hit something and kicked out. No such thing as a provisional for an unplayable.

Your missing a very big part to the decision. I hit a ball that is a very real possibility of being lost. I also know that if its found it would be unplayable, but my provisional can only be based on the assumption it will be lost. I immediately hit a provisional which is my right and put it safely in the fairway. Now I have a ball safely in play, my other ball can be deemed lost and I can make double and move on. If my opponent decides to look for my ball and finds it, that is his right. If I find and its unplayable, I cannot simply pick it up and then walk over and play my provisional as that ball was played under the assumption the ball was lost. I can either, take 2 clubs relief (+1 stroke) which probably keeps me in the fescue and forces me to hack out the fairway, I can keep line of sight to the hole and walk back and drop behind the fescue which may very well put me parallel to the tee box (or where I orginally hit if not a tee shot) (+1 stroke), or I re-tee (+1 stroke) which is likely the best option. While yes, its the same penalty, recall that I already had a provisional IN PLAY. Now I have to put another ball IN PLAY.

Its amazing how often you and I disagree. First of all this happens more often than you give it credit for, apparantly just not at the courses you play. I frequently play links style course where fescue can run up the sides of the hole nearly from tee to green, which makes line of sight worthless. IF you find your ball, the best you can typically do is pitch out sideways and you run the risk of it not getting out to the fairway. If I hit it in there, I immediately hit a provisional and don't even bother looking for the ball. This has never bothered any of my playing opponents who typically do exactly the same thing. I just don't see how that is shady in the least bit and from everything I can read is PERFECTLY within the rules. And yes, it was a decision to respectively allow the ball to be deemed lost. Now if one of them decided the ball could be found and subsequently took it upon themselves to go look for the ball and found it. I wouldn't necessarily be pissed as its their right, but its a hell of a lot more shady to me than not looking! At that point as an opponent you are cold blooded. You know the best I can do is likely make a miraculous bogey if found and playable, whereas perhaps my provisional affords me a safe double bogey. BUT, the biggest advantage to finding it is it opens up a much higher number. Now I may have to go back and put another ball in play. Furthermore you are making the decision to back every other group up on the course behind you even further. Bad form in my opinion.

Okay, I will say it.... Either A) you are not a 30 handicapper, B) you didn't shoot 84 or C) some combination of both Either way it sounds like your best round so kudos, but be careful pimping that story around because I would bet my life savings and then mortgage my house and bet more against a legit 30 handicapper shooting a legit 84 on a legit course.

This is starting to become a bit of an ettiquette discussion, maybe abit off topic but still valuable. Personally, I would only help an opponent search for his ball if he is actively searching for it as well. If he hit a provisional and simply walks up and hits his provisional ball, I would assume he feels that is his best approach. I would think that would be perfectly acceptable to just about anyone if the odds of actually finding the ball are low to begin with. Again, the only real time I can see this come into play is in deep, thick fescue.

oooh juicy! So who is shadier a player that just presumes the ball to be lost or the opponent who continue to look and forces him to identify the ball?

This is why I am not sure I agree that its shady to just not look. I took my medicine, a stiff cocktail of medicine mind you as stiff as it gets like you said. Why would it be shady to not look? Its more shady if you your opponent starts looking after I clearly decided the ball is lost. My thoughts...."Gee thanks for finding it in this knee high fescue where two club lengths puts me in calf high fescue and I have to hit backwards to get out! What's that you say, oh I can go back and re-tee AGAIN, okay I will do that, would have been nice not to walk all the way back facing the pressure of another good swing just to salvage a potential double bogey." This brings me to another point, your opponent can look for the ball, but if he finds "a ball", can he actually identify it? If he finds "a ball", is there a rule that I have to walk over and verify that the ball he found is in fact my ball? Can I just tell him to go fly a kite? EDIT: It seems to me that based on the rules the Player is the only person that can identify the ball. In the case of Phil, it sounds as though he may have been able to ignore the people and gone ahead and played the provisional. Perhaps as iacas mentions its bad form, but for the life of me I cannot understand why.

Best Ball = Best Score per hole

Dude, I am not making this up. Those guys are pure putters. Luke Donald isn't a great putter???....you cannot be ranked #1 on tour in putts per GIR and not be a great putter. BTW, Brian Gay is ranked 8th and they are both in the top 5 in putts per round as well. You can be near the top of one list by being an average putter because of less than stellar ball striking, but you CANNOT be at or near the top of BOTH lists without being a phenomenal putter.

You put it much more elgantly than I did, but this is exactly what I was trying to say. Not at ALL a slam against Tiger. I would pick him to make the clutch putt before anyone else, but my decision would not be based on his stroke but rather his iron will.

So the provisional I already hit is in fact useless. I need to brush up on the rules!