Jack B

I think I just read that Harding Park in SF spent $1.2m and 4 months replacing their greens. Not sure if that includes lost revenue for greens fees etc too. I'd expect with the larger size and complexity of the Chambers Bay greens it would be much more expensive. Considering cheaper greens fees for Harding at around $50 for residents and less than $100 for non residents the $200-$300 lost for each golfer would make the Chambers Bay green replacement very expensive. I think they said they average 30,000 golfers a year. At $200 a round that's about $1.5m plus maybe $2.5m for the greens. That's a wild unresearched guess on costs. Maybe someone who knows more can elaborate. If the course cost $21m to build then maybe the tax payers or whomever balked at spending that much. Now that they have seen the money a US Open can bring I'm sure they'll do whatever is needed to improve the greens. I also heard that a new pesticide will be approved for use by the fall that will stop the poa and leave the fescue. If it works I'd guess a lot of west coast courses will take advantage of that option.

I spent a while on Chambers 7th off the fairway ropes and in the stands. Awesome hole to watch and one of the smoothest greens without poa. One of the regulars said that the fairway was much narrower for the open. They let the fairway on the far side turn to rough to make it harder to not run through. A ton of players were hitting approaches to 7 uphill from the rough as a result. I loved it, because it made it so challenging, but the pros probably weren't so pleased.... Not sure what else was changed other than length and firmness, but it's probably a lot greener and easier normally. Navy tees - 75.6 / 139 - 7,165 yds Sand tees - 72.4 / 135 - 6,513 yds White tees - 70.2 / 127 - 6,015 yds Not bad. My home courses play 133/136 off the blues and 140+ off the blacks.

MyrtlebeachGolf, couldn't agree more. Those two approach shots on 18 were unbelievable under that much pressure. Both were a foot or so from reading the junk at the back of the green and both held the upper tier. Crazy. :-D

Interesting discussion. It certainly seems there are a number of variables that determine the proper speed for each individual putt. If I knew the exact break and exact speed needed then would the speed (ie distance past the hole) be different than the same putt if I had little confidence in my read? Example would be a 3 footer with a 2 foot break on a green I was unfamiliar with... Lagging to a few inches to make the hole bigger would seem to decrease my chances of a lip out and an easier 2nd putt, but if length of my 2nd putt didn't matter and I was really unsure of my read would taking more break out with more speed sink a higher percentage? I'd like to experiment and hit 100 putts on the practice green using each method, but once I putt the first I'll know the break, so it messes up the experiment a bit.

iacas, Wow! Great thread on putting. Thanks! I'll read more when I have time. There were a few posts saying the calculations missed a few things and that Pelz 17 inches may be correct. In my personal experience the hole does get bigger if the ball is trickling in, but it also effected the most by the break and any lumpy donut or bumpy green issues. It seems to me the vast majority of break happens at the end of a putt when it's going the slowest. If the putt has some break and it's match play or a skins game to maximize my chances of taking the break out, I hit putts firmer. Four inches just brings in too much break for me and he did slide by on the amateur side. He may have read the break and just tightened up and didn't hit it as hard as he planned. Heart breaking for DJ no matter what the reason. Hope he bounces right back.

Boogielicious, yep. I do the same thing and when it slides by on the low side and I wonder how I could I do that.... I was really hoping he'd win it with the eagle putt. I couldn't imagine an 18 hole playoff could have had a more dramatic ending, but we'll never know.

Such a nice warm welcome. You must be the ambassador for The Sand Trap.

One more thing I noticed that I've not yet heard an announcer or writer talk about. If I'm playing for skins and I need a birdie to win one, I will never leave it short. I won't try to lag it. I won't try to hit it the Dave Pelz optimal 16-18" past the hole.... I'll knock it 3 feet past, so I take as much break out of it as possible. DJ hit his 4 foot birdie putt on the 18th hole to force a playoff 4 inches past the hole. 4 inches... On a four foot putt? I've not heard anyone talk about that... I have heard a ton of people say, maybe the green cause his miss... If you watched closely you'd notice some greens like 7 and 13 were fantastic with no poe annua. The 18th was a very good green and where they put the pin looked excellent. You don't hit this putt 4 inches past the cup. I really like DJ and wanted him to hit the eagle putt, but I can't see anything but nerves when you lag a 4 footer. I miss one of those and it might cost me $5. That cost him over $1 million... :-(

Not sure if I'm the only one to think this way about a comment Phil Mickleson made. Phil is one of my favorite players and I consider him a class act. He took 6 2nd place finishes at the US Open with class and turned them into learning experiences. Now on to the comment I didn't like. It seems to me that golfers have gotten more and more picky and somewhat entitled over the years. I can't remember the exact quote, but he commented on the 18th being either a par 4 or a par 5. "How can we have a game plan to attack the course when we don't know if it's going to be a par 4 or a par 5?". Having played a ton of sports, I'll just pick one. Football. How can a team expect to come up with a game plan when the other team won't tell them what every play they'll run is going to be, when they'll run it and what personnel and formation they will run it with.... How can a baseball player be expected to hit a pitch when the pitcher can choose to pitch any of 2 to 5 pitches without giving them any notice. How can the Golden State Warriors beat Lebron and company when they keep switching defenses.... Anyway, you are getting pretty spoiled as an athlete when you are told 4 hours before the round that the 18th is going to be a par 4 and you don't think it's possible to come up with a strategy.... You've known for a week it would be either a 4 or 5. Pick your 14 clubs and have at it. As nice a guy as Phil is, I don't think he really thought about what he was saying. I don't agree that it should have been a par 4 at all, because it was designed as a par 5, but if in 4 hours you can't come up with a strategy.... Well, that's starting to border on ridiculous and the fact, that no broadcaster or anyone else even thinks that's bizarre speaks to how much we're stuck in a rut. PGA golfers are very very picky and as we used to say in baseball.... rub some dirt on it and let's go. :-)

Club Rat, Thanks. What courses would you recommend. Not saying I'll play them as Links style isn't my favorite, but I'd like to hear about some others. I'll play Chambers Bay, but I imagine it will be tough. It looks awesome though and I'll take my punishment just for the views. I'd also like to see how tough it is in person. I love taking on a challenge once in a while. I played one of my home courses, Blackhawks Falls on Sunday morning before the final round. It plays about 133 slope off the blues. Compared to most courses the greens have many tiers, some bowls and a lot of break. Compared to Chambers Bay they are comically flat and small. I kept thinking there is no way I can miss the green! I had one of my best rounds putting and chipping ever. I think just being there and watching the pros hit those tiny spots gave me some extra control. I may never complain about a tough putt again! :-)

I'd like at my take of the event from a spectators point of view. I'm between a 9-12 index depending.... and play about 100 rounds a year. I've been in person to about 15 PGA events. I have never been the the UK or played a true links course. I live in the SF Bay Area and have played ocean course like Half Moon Bay, Pebble, Torry Pines etc. I love the views, but I like trees and hate playing in the wind. Having said that I've always enjoyed watching some links golf, because it's different and produces some challenging shots and creativity. If I only listened to the Pros and the broadcasts or Sirius PGA radio I'd think the spectators hated it, but that's not what I saw at all in person. I walked 7 miles on Thursday and 9 miles on Friday. I stood by the ropes. I stood behind tee boxes. I sat in grandstands and checked out most of the extra exhibits, merchandise area etc. In two days I never heard a single complaint from anyone. People were cheering. People were laughing. People had big smiles. I typically follow a golfer or groups for a few holes or maybe even an entire 18, but this was different. There were a few holes that made it tough to follow, so we just went from place to place and watched different groups and it was awesome. I especially loved 15, 16 and 17 on the water. 12 was very cool watching eagle attempts, but it was about 500 yards extra walking to get there. Along the way I past the huge all inclusive 1895 club. It had a balcony above 13 that ran about 300 yards packed with people watching talking laughing. I couldn't get in, but they sure looked like they were having a blast. You could see 8, but it was along a viewpoint path and not too many bothered. Most of the inner holes had traditional along the ropes viewpoints, but the trap areas were huge, so you weren't always a few feet away. 7 was awesome in the grandstand and along the path. Many people bought chairs and just hung out. 18 grandstands were epic. What a great view of the fairway and the hole. I went there often. I won't describe every hole, but other than 8 and maybe the 10th green and the 1st fairway there were lot's of amazing places to watch. It was just a big area with routes around some impassable dunes, so following took some planning and fast feet. In most tournaments the weaker players have galleries of a handful of players at best, but at Chambers Bay weaker 3 somesomes would hit in 18 with maybe 6,000 spectators. No one talks about that.... Yeah, if you're Mickleson's wife and aren't there to watch golf, but you only care about one guy it sucked, but as an all around experience it was different and awesome in my opinion. I do think they'll cut some paths through some dunes for next time to make it easier to follow, but when you here loud roars all over the course for great shots and not just great shots by a handful of top golfers it sure didn't seem like people didn't enjoy it. Listening to the pros say "the spectators hated it" was off the mark. Yeah, if the hard core followers of "you" complained it may have seemed that way, but I went for the golf and I saw tons. I'm wasn't there for one golfer. As for the greens. You'll see a picture of the worst possible spot on the worst green and think they all looked like that. In person they didn't look that bad. I'm sure they weren't up to PGA standards and I would hope they fix them for next time, but man did that course deliver some incredible completion with amazing shots and creativity. I would go back and watch again in a heartbeat and it's now on my bucket list. It's sort of like being in Scotland, but better weather, less wind it's cheaper and the food is pretty good in Seattle.