R7 425 Shaft Q

[MilnerJ]

Hey, I have noticed that the face on my taylormade r7 425 driver is a degree or two closed. I was wondering if I were to get it reshafted, could I have the clubmaker install the head square? Also, how would you rate the stock shaft on the 425? thanks

[MilnerJ]

**bumpp**

[MilnerJ]

anyone???

[SubPar]

Most new drivers are designed with a little, or a lot, of draw bias. I'm pretty sure it's built into the relationship between the hosel and the head so you would not be able to merely rotate it on the shaft to get rid of it.

I have the TM Superquad and I moved one of the heavy weights to the toe to negate the slight draw bias built into the hread. It seems to have worked fine.

[beung]

The face angle is in relation to the hosle so the only way would be to bend the face open....not even sure if this is possible.

If you have a R7 425 and it's not the TP head then its is about 2deg closed. The TP heads are the only TM clubs that do not have a closed face angle. The TP versions have about 0.5deg open on their drivers/woods and less offest on the irons but of course the TP version of any of the clubs are almost double the price.

Most retail clubs are made with a bit of draw bias built into the face angle as well as draw bias weight distribution to help prevent the "slice". But not every golfer "slices" infact many, like myself, will hook a retail club with a closed face angle.

There are manufactures that offer a neutral or open face angle option for no extra cost. Callaway's "Tour" version of their woods are typically open or square faces and I also know that Ping offers this option as well.

Go to a launch monitor and it will tell you how open/closed your face angle is at impact. If you are like me, I have a strong left hand grip so almost every swing with a non TP 425, my face angle was about 3-4deg closed and would draw. I then swung a neutral/open face club, iether the 425 TP or a Ping and my face angle at impact went to being 0-1deg open. Balls would start out the same but would tail off to the right, and not nearly as off the centerline as it did when the 425 non TP did when it trailed off to the left.

[MilnerJ]

  beung said:

The face angle is in relation to the hosle so the only way would be to bend the face open....not even sure if this is possible.

yeah, i just can't stand the look of a closed club face... especially on my driver... ah well, looks like i'll just have to deal with it until i get a knew one... *sigh*

[Fisherdude]

The Ping drivers that don't have a hosel, and Callaways, have a plastic insert in the club head, and the shaft goes into the insert. These inserts come in different specifications, and you can change face angle by changing the insert.

As has been mentioned, with all other clubs, the only way the face angle can be changed is by bending the hosel. This is not always impossible, depending on the malleability of the alloy used in that particular club, but it MUST be done by a tech who knows what he's doing.

I would contact TaylorMade and ask if your particular model can be bent, if so what's the maximum number of degrees it can be bent, and can they recommend a local tech who can do the work. Or, if it can be bent, you could always send it back to TaylorMade and have their custom shop do it for you.

Back in the day, standard driver face angle was usually 1 degree open. Now, for non-pro models, it's usually 1 or 2 degrees closed, to help with slicing. How do you hit it? If you hit it fine, this would be a lot of work just to make it look better to your eye. Not that that's not important, of course!

[Fisherdude]

MilnerJ, I love your equipment list!!

[MilnerJ]

  Fisherdude said:

The Ping drivers that don't have a hosel, and Callaways, have a plastic insert in the club head, and the shaft goes into the insert. These inserts come in different specifications, and you can change face angle by changing the insert.

well, I am currently struggling with drives that hook low and right (im a lefty). I suppose i'll be in contact with TM in the near future just to access my options, but we'll see... Thanks for all the replies.

ps... ty fisherdude. Just a little play on how everyone seems to put the most irrelevent things in thier equipment siggys lol

[Fisherdude]

  MilnerJ said:

..well, I am currently struggling with drives that hook low and right (im a lefty)...

Given your index, it's the club. Also, closing the face angle causes the effective loft at impact to be lower than the stated loft on the club. I don't know how this is dealt with by the manufacturer, but I assume they make an adjustment in the design process.

[teebuck911]

its the way the club is designed i felt this when i tried the club. it only toes in when the club is rested on the floor, try hovering the club during set up, i also tried the TP and it was fantastic,

tom

[gas_can]

  MilnerJ said:

Hey, I have noticed that the face on my taylormade r7 425 driver is a degree or two closed. I was wondering if I were to get it reshafted, could I have the clubmaker install the head square? Also, how would you rate the stock shaft on the 425? thanks

MilnerJ,

There are two ways to do this, either by shimming the club open, or by bending it open. Bending it open requires a very skilled clubmaker, and at the very least a loft lie machine capable of bending metal woods. Ideally your clubmaker should have forms that will help preserve the integrity of the head and remove some of the stress of the bending process. Even then this is a very dicey operation and the risk of cracking the head in the future is a real possiblity. This sort of work is never warrantied by the shop and TM will not touch the driver if they see any sort of bending marks on the hosel. Shimming it open on the other hand is very easy. Basically the clubmaker takes a standard copper shim and cuts selective "prongs" on a side to make the club sit more open or closed if need be. With this method it's easy to open up a club by a degree to a degree and a half. The risk is almost zero, as shims are a very consistent and reliable way of installing a .335 tip shaft into a .350 hosel. This should work perfectly in your case. Remember however, that opening the face angle of a club decreases the effective loft at impact, assuming you're squaring the face, so you may need to take launch conditions into consideration. As for your experiences with the left side of the course, even a two to three degree closed club face will not turn a five yard draw into a low snap hook. If anything you would hit the ball higher and slightly further right. I would read this post for a more in-depth explanation: http://thesandtrap.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4742

[Donald MacKenzie]

FYI, the face angle isn't just about draw bias. With the supersized clubheads, the shaft flexes and the toe of the club lags behind at impact. So by having the driver head a little closed at address, the design intent is to create a "dynamic face angle" (actual face angle at impact) that is square. When you see a driver with a very closed (4-5°) face, that's meant to help stop slicing a bit. But most of the drivers that set up a degree or two closed are designed that way to square the face at impact, not cure a slice.

The clubs like the TP models that are square or a degree or two open are meant for players who are used to having the clubface a little open at impact, or who can control their swing to get it back to square at impact on their own. FWIW.

[beung]

  MilnerJ said:

well, I am currently struggling with drives that hook low and right (im a lefty). I suppose i'll be in contact with TM in the near future just to access my options, but we'll see... Thanks for all the replies.

You could go and get a 10g weight and replace the 2g weight in the toe. This should slow down the toe at impact which should give you a slightly more open face angle.

This is what I did for a bit and it worked pretty well. I was able to pick up a R7 425 TP used, I wanted to have a more neutral face without using the weights so if I wanted a bit more draw or fade bias I could.