i-Guy

I am "Seriously" considering the Vizor putter...I currently putt with a Odyssey Metal X #7 and this putter works well for me...but I remember putting with a Vizor in the local Edwin Watts store a while back and I liked the set up and the way it rolled but was not really looking at Wilson Staff at the time...I since have found the Ci11 irons which were truly made for me and my game...so now I am on the hunt to make my bag all Wilson Staff...the most underrated golf company in golf! But shhhhhhhhhh..dont tell anyone as I like it that way!!! Seriously!

Check out this... http://www.stackandtilt.com/

When talking about a fade I naturally have always been one who can play a pull fade...yes and when I am not swinging well (timing off) it can turn into a slice...or a dead pull...but if I were to master this swing (meaning can repaet it quite often) why would I not play a pull fade??? I would have to think that with an inside-outside swing if your timing is off as it reates to hitting the ball straight you can hit a push or a push draw...so wat is the difference? Isnt the key to havigna good golf game finding a swing that fits your nataural tendicies and then grooving it to where you can repeat it??? Just wondering...

Like someone said earlier...get fitted for many reasons but simply lenghtening your clubs will cause the following and you need to be aware of this: 1) For every 1/2 inch it will increase your irons 2-3 swing weights 2) For every 1/2 inch it makes your clubs 1 degree upright So you need to be careful with just adding length as an alternative...just my 2 cents as I am 6'4. My fit is somewhere around 1/4 to 1/2 inch long as compared to standard (what is that any more???) and I am around 1-2 degrees upright...the reason I wrote "around" is becuase it depends on the manufacturer and how they measure things. So for instance I have bought a standard set off the floor before and had them add 1/2 inch whoch gave me 1 deg upright and I like my swing weights a little heavier so that worked for me.

Oh yeah I never gave my average distances...per what's in my bag right now: FW 245 4 iron 192 5 iron 178 6 iron 165 7 iron 151 8 iron 139 9 iron 127 PW 115 UW 100 SW 82

Agree 100% but for most (per my post right above yours) it could provide realistic gudiance to what players average disctance were...no?

If follwed religously it would help people know their real distances...right???

I hear you on this as I am a feel player (regardless of my post earlier about the "Math"...LOL) but my pre-shot routine is as follows: 1) How far is it to where I want the ball to end up..."Target" (I use a GPS) 2) Is it uphill or downhill 3) What is the wind doing 4) Then based on the knowledge I have about how far I hit each club (math) I make a selection 5) Now with 1-4 done...I go into a feel mode and try to see the shot to the "Target" 6) Then focus on exectuing my swing to the "Target" That is just my pre-shot routine... but unfortuantely in the heat of the moment, etc...I do not always properly follow it and see how many times I wrote the word "target"...I am trying to work on that and have found it more difficult then it sounds

BOOM!!! This is very well written and I especially like this part: "What happened to being athletic and putting the club face on the ball? Worry about that first." From my very first swing I have always faded the ball...it is a pull fade (no doubt) as it is a slight over the top move...but for the most part (for some reason...see quote above) I seem to be able to put the club on the ball and know where it is going...I am currently playing to an 8 but have been as low as a 6 and my lowest round ever is a 74 using this swing (shot 2 under on the front 9 and had one bad hole on the back 9)...anyway my story is that for the last two years I have been going back and forth between my natural swing (fade bias) and a S&T; type swing...I will explain more later but not real sure (???) why I keep trying this as I even putt my best when I use an open stance (Raymond Floyd)...it seems for whatever reason per the quote below I see the game left to right from every aspect: "You can take two people who are just starting out and give them the exact same grip, same setup, same clubs and so on, but that doesn't mean they are both going to naturally hit a draw. It has a lot to do with body type, flexibility, swing speeds. The factors are endless." I have taken lessons to learn to draw the ball and when I set up that way everything feels like it is sooooooo far to the left of me that my over the top move gets even worse because my hand-to-eye coordination wants to swing to the target...I have been told by quite a few Pro's that I have great hand-to-eye coordination as they see it in my short game (very solid) Anyway I have been fighting myself for the last two years as this Pro has been trying to convince me to do this S&T; type swing (I say S&T; type because it has many aspects of the S&T; but not all)...he is a very good teacher (Pro) and player (qualified for the 2006 Senior PGA Championship) and he tells me that with the S&T; swing I get into much better positions...I have shot a couple of 78's with this swing but it feels very mechanical and I dont feel like I am in control of the ball...I feel like I am just executing a swing method...I have shot some very bad rounds with this swing as well...BUT I have shot some pretty bad rounds with my fade swing also??? I am not a Pro and have a real job and my application to either process has been spotty at best over the past two years due to work...anyway I can always find some verions of my fade swing and when it is on I hit a lot of PGA Tour quality golf shots (very high, slight fade, great distance control, stops on a dime, etc...)...I am also at least a club longer with my fade swing then this S&T; type swing for some reason??? My biggest problem with my fade swing is off the tee as I do get quite steep (I am 6'4 so my swing tends to be upright) and with a Driver I tend to hit down too much and dont get the distance or control I desire...I am currently hitting a strong 3 wood off the tee as this seems to work better...I think it may just be a matter of finding the right driver (shaft and loft) but have not found it yet. Bottom line is I have made a committment to my "Fade Swing" for the next year and try to work out a few bugs (off the tee)... FADE Swings RULE!!!

I agree...the same 20 handicap I mentioned above I play with sometimes continues to not udnerstand that golf is not a game of how far you hit the ball or how perfect your swing looks but yet how you SCORE!!! For instance we got paired one day with this young kid who killed the ball off the tee but had a very questionable short game (chipping and putting)...my 20 handicap buddy just marveled all day at this kids tee shots and when we got done and the kid left my buddy looks at me and says man that guy was awesome...he shot a 79...I looked at my buddy and said "yeah nice swing" oh by the way I shot 78..he looked at me like I was lying??? I guess because getting up and down from everywhere is not as exciting as hitting drives 280 yards...

Yeah it is not easy to do at a busy driving range and could take a lot of time to do on the course itself but how else do you know "really' how far you hit each club...Dave Peltz talks about doing this with your wedges to know your distances for each wedge with a 7 o'clock, 9 o'clock and 11o'clock swings and then write them down so you know how far each club goes with each level of swing...I guess what my original post was trying to say is that before people go off stating that they hit a club a certain distance they should check their math...some of the ones I read on here don't make sense based on the math so I am assuming (you know what they say about assuming) that they are speculating based on the best shot they ever hit or guessing...I have done some of this testing (no one else at my range but me) using my balls and a GPS and have found that on the avg I dont hit the ball as far as I thought but if you can do this avergae test (10 balls and average them out) with a 5 iron and then use this website once you figure out your 5 iron average distance to tell you how far you hit the rest of your clubs...make sure you fill out the top part honestly... http://www.csgnetwork.com/golfclubdistancecalce.html

Good point and there are many mitigating factors in each swing but like I said "on the average" but seriously if this guy can barely hit his drives 240 (which it is more like 210-220) how the heck can he average 190 with a 5 iron??? Plus I have him seen him hit his 5 iron on many occassions and maybe one of fifteen went around 180-190...so his average is more like 165-175...but every time he gets to 190 he pulls it out and swings like a mad man...one out of fifteen times is not good enough odds to be successful...I try to talk to him about this but he doesn't want to hear it...like most people...it took me a while to swallow my pride and say I dont hit a 6 iron 200 yards because I did a couple of times...I play my 6 iron at around 165-170...and I had my handciap down to 6 earlier this year...just saying!

I hope everyone realizes that there is math invovled when it comes to how far you hit your clubs...meaning on the average if someone hits a 7 iron 150yds (on the avg)...then their max drive "carry" (on the avg figuring 45/46 inch driver, etc..) should be around 255 yds...it is math based on club length, club angle and swing speed...it cracks me up when someone says they hit drives 285-300 and they only hit their 7 iron 135 yds...there is no friggin way! Oh yeah one day with a strong wind behind you and in the winter so you got a bunch of roll (or hit the cart path and did not relaize it) you may have hit a drive that ended up that far but the math doesnt work??? I also would challenege many people on this thread that say they hit their 7 irons 150 yds to hit ten shots and seriously measure them out to see that (on the avg) they hit their 7 iron 150yds??? Point being that sometimes I play with a 20 handicap and he always says he hits his 5 iron 190 yds...that would mean he hits his 7 iron (on the avg) 166yds and his average drive should be around 268yds...first of all I avg 235-240 off the tee with a strong 3 wood and I out drive him 90% of the time...so if we back into his 5 iron distance based on his drives being 240 (on the avg) then his average 5 iron = 162yds...do the math!

Okay here is my dilemma...I am currently playing to an 8.8 handicap and last year had it down to a 6. But I have been really struggling with taking my game to the next level...aspire to compete in FSGA Florida State Golf Association tournaments. The reason is my swing…as I have been told over and over by good players and teachers that my short game is very solid. Anyway I basically have two swings and cannot seem to make a commitment to one and my handicap is slowly rising while my confidence is slowly decreasing…the following is a quick explanation about each swing: Fade Swing – I call this my “fade swing” and is basically a slight over the top swing and plays like a pull fade…when doing it well I have very good power and good accuracy as I can play the fade (by alignment) to my target…but when it is going bad it is very bad and sometimes even turns into a high handicapper over the top slice that gets me in trouble and has no power. The Pro I see once in a while for lessons says he doesn’t think this swing will hold up…but he really has not ever seen it when it is going well…my best score using this swing for 18 holes was a 74 (on a PAR 72 course)…and one of the main reasons I keep coming back to this swing is I can always find some version of it as it seems to be very natural to me…also most good players I know and teachers (including the one I see for lessons once in a while) says that my tendency (either swing) is to fade the ball and I know that I see the game that way…not sure why or how that works (right eye dominant???) S&T; Swing – I say S&T; but it is really my version of it…this is the swing I usually work on when getting a lesson because the Pro I work with says that I get into such good positions with this swing and usually when working with him I hit it very good. NOTE: The Pro I work with actually went to a seminar in Orlando a couple of years back put on by Plummer and Bennett and he believes the S&T; is a good swing method. However, his teaching methodology has always been to teach what he thinks works best for the student. Early on in our lessons I told him I played around with the S&T; not knowing he had gone to this seminar and he challenged me to show him…I sat there and just stripped a 7 iron (10 shots) right at the target and long…he looked at me and said “Yep that is basically the S&T; and you do it very well…maybe you should use that swing?”…another note about this Pro…he qualified and played in the 2006 Senior PGA Championship…so he is a player also! The problem with this swing is that I cannot always find it and it feels very mechanical to me. When I am having trouble with it I still hit the ball very straight but have no power…I have shot a 76 using this method. So that is my dilemma…I would say that when I think about it the S&T; makes a lot of sense from the standpoint that this Pro thinks it is a very good swing from me and maybe I just have not put the time into making it feel more comfortable as when I get frustrated I will go to my fade swing (even during hitting session at the range)…so maybe I am just an instant gratification junky??? BUT then I have heard so many people (even Pro’s in articles and on TV) say you should go with what is natural for you and sometimes they say that because under pressure it is what will show up… So my HELP is in hearing what others who may have been through something like this think and can tell me what you think I should do or what you did to solve this…I am hoping I hear something that sparks me in one direction so I can commit and start working toward my goal of FSGA Championships…thanks!