tdinneen

Nah, standard lie was fine for me. With impact tape on the sole the +1 and -1 were centered about the same distance from center.

I bought the MP-R 52 and 56, I also tried the Cleveland CG10's and 11's in the shop. They actually felt pretty similar, the CG's are soft, well way softer than the old 588's I had. The Mizuno's do have that Mizuno feel to them, and they look the bomb (got the Black Nickel) so I bought them (they also matched my Iron set). I actually like the grind on the 52, it sits nice on flop shots. Although I have had issues with distance control on anything but a full swing. This could be due to what you are saying about forgiveness. With my full swing I'm pretty consistent but I do hit it with a bit of a splatter pattern with anything less. The 56 in sand I'm not so sure about, I think I'd prefer a flatter / wider flange. It sinks a little more in the sand than I'm used to. Having said all that, I bought a 60 degree Vokey the other day and love it. Just feels really nice to swing and I love the feel of how the ball comes off the club. Wish I had tried these before buying the MP-R's. Can't really give a balanced opinion on spin. For some reason I never pinch / take a divot on the ball when pitching like I do with my full swing. My short game is more of a brush stroke my pro is trying to sort this out but it might take a while!!!

I recently replaced my 3 iron with a 585.H 21 degree as well (just a few days ago). I was happy with my yardage gap (193 carry for my 4 and 206 for my 3) but my 3 iron occasionally hooked on me. Couldn't be happier with the 585.H although I'm hitting it 215-220 carry, so now I have a gap with my 4 iron and hybrid (up to 27 yards carry??). The 585.H is way more consistent and a lot more forgiving than my 3 iron. Even if I hit it thin it flies a good 170+ yards, which isn't a bad result (assuming of course I'm on the fairway ). It's heaps better from the rough as well.

I actually just replaced my 3 iron a few days ago with a 21 degree Titleist 585.H. Over the last few weeks I tried a couple of hybrids, the Callaway X Hybrid, the Nickent 3DX, the TaylorMade Dual TP and the Cobra Baffler. Decided I wanted to go with steel over graphite as I found it a little more consistant. the weight was more like an iron and as it's replacing an iron so thought it was the way to go. To be honest I liked all of them especially when compared to a 3 iron. Though thought the TaylorMade was a little heavy, the head is quite heavy as it is but with a steel shaft... although they put an ultralight in there, probably for that reason. It also costs heaps more One thing to note is that I'm getting an extra 10-15 yards with the hybrid over the 3 iron (a Mizuno MP-FLIHI). Which is a good thing I guess but it now means I have a gap of 25-30 yards over my 4 iron. Tried the 18 degree as well and hitting that within 10 yards of what I hit my Steelhead Plus 3W. So might have to look into 3 woods (tried the Mizuno F-50 by the way and loved that ) In the end I went with the Titleist (it came down to the Callaway and the Titleist). The Nickent was really nice but I was hitting a graphite as they didn't have a steel shaft in store. The Callaway was hitting maybe 5 yards longer, but the length of the Titleist and it's swingweight, a D2, were the same as 3 iron it was replacing. The Callaway is 1/4" longer and a D3. I chose the Titleist for no other reason. I think they are both awesome clubs.

I've have to add one to the Mizuno F-50 (5W steel shaft, 18 degree I think?). Tried it on a lunch monitor the other day and loved it. As roverT7 said it's super easy to hit off the deck. Very nice traditional looking fairway wood. Used to have an old Callaway Steelhead Plus, and this club really reminds me of it. I was looking for a hybrid that'd get me 215-220 yards of carry, wanted a steel shaft, but golftown didn't have a whole lot of options so I picked up some fairway woods just for comparison to go along with the Titleist 585-H 21 degree and Callaway X Hybrid 18 degree. So just for comparison I was hitting the 21 degree Titleist around the 215-220 yard (carry), the 18 degree Callaway about 240ish and the 5W off the deck around 250 yards. So it's pretty much there as expected with distance. Having said all that about the F-50, I'd also recommend you try some hybrids. A mate of mine who normally hates hitting fairway woods, loves the hybrids, the flatter iron like face gives him lots more confidence. You also hit a hybrid more like a 5-6 iron which helps, well that's what I'm doing and I'm getting god results. I went with the Titleist, which surprised me a bit as I never really had great results with their drivers. I was always a bit of a Callaway man with woods.

Absolutely, it may even be that you need standard? Yeah, it's a good read. Lots of interesting info, especially for someone who's not average height (with respect to the golf industry). If anything trying to overhit will usually end up going shorter and more than likely into the trees when you over hit you invariable loose tempo. Speaking of which can't recommend John Novosel's "Tour Tempo" book enough as well. Two drills and a CD with tempo rhythms on it to get your timing in sync. Love the practical simplicity of it. My tempo is pretty much spot on when I'm hitting well, but never really understood why sometimes it'd all just feel wrong!!! now I have drills that I can take to the course to help me get my tempo back. Here's the website!! http://www.tourtempo.com/ Well tried +- 1 degree when I got fitted. 1 upright for me would result in heel hits (which makes sense 'cos at address toe is more up, although I wouldn't go on look at address, impact is where it all matters, the moment of truth as they say ), 1 flatter would result in toe hits. From memory they went straight??? but I couldn't get a nice clean contact, so distance and height were effected.

I looked up "good golf quotes" in google and found these.... Golf appeals to the idiot in us and the child. Just how childlike golf players become is proven by their frequent inability to count past five. ~John Updike Golf is like an 18-year-old girl with big boobs. You know it's wrong but you can't keep away from her. ~Val Doonican Man blames fate for other accidents but feels personally responsible for a hole in one. ~Martha Beckman Love this one.... Duffers who consistently shank their balls are urged to buy and study Shanks - No Thanks by R.K. Hoffman, or in extreme cases, M.S. Howard's excellent Tennis for Beginners. ~Henry Beard, Golfing, 1985 The first time I played the Masters, I was so nervous I drank a bottle of rum before I teed off. I shot the happiest 83 of my life. ~Chi Chi Rodriguez I'll shoot my age if I have to live to be 105. ~Bob Hope Golf is an awkward set of bodily contortions designed to produce a graceful result. ~Tommy Armour Golf is a game in which you yell "fore," shoot six, and write down five. ~Paul Harvey And my favourite... A "gimme" can best be defined as an agreement between two golfers, neither of whom can putt very well. ~Author Unknown

With respect to your height. A static fit is best done with your wrist to floor measurment (in flat shoes). I'd be guessing that someone who's 5'7" would be around 32" or so (just basing that on I'm 5'10" with a 34.75" wrist to floor). Wrist to floor is better 'cos you might be average height (average in golfing equipment is around 5'10" += 2-3 inches). Go to Golfsmith.com and do there online static fit for the clubs that you have and see what it comes out with. It's possible that your swing plane etc. merits standard length, but you should really get fitted. You may need to get shorter clubs, and get the lie adjusted as well. I'm a big fan of Tom Wishon's book "The Search for the Perfect Golf Club" (if you like reading golf books or indeed buying golf equipment this one is a must IMHO). I just looked up my guestimated wrist to floor for you in the book and your driver should be about 42" in length. Assuming you are using a spanking new driver that's 45" or so, then your driver is way too long for long (looking at the video it looks a little long for you, but you did get a nice hit on it, but I wonder how often that happens ). One interesting thing to note from the book about driver length is that using a robotic arm to test distances for someone that has a 90mph swing speed is that a 42" driver will hit 210 carry and the 45" will hit 211. So you are gaining only one yard on length but that extra 3" is more than likely causing you a lot of off center hits. If your are off by 1/4" you'll loose around 5 yards, 1/2" you'll loose 10. So it's far better to have a driver more fitted to your height than use off the shelf clubs. It's also worth noting that the average driver length on tour is 44.5", of those guys aren't going long then us amatures... well you know where I'm going here.

LOFT.... ooohhhhh I like it!!! I'm going to use that this weekend

Unfortunately I live in Canada, so no iPhone for me. I'll have to wait for it to be launched here or until someone hacks the iPhone to allow SIMs other than AT&T; (which is probably not just a hardware unlock but I'm guessing the software has smarts in it as well). I also understand that even if you were to buy an iPhone from the US you can't activate / get subscribed unless you have a US credit card (much like they check with iTMS purchases). Apparently you can't use it as a widescreen iPod until you activate it / start paying AT&T; money. This is apparently an attempt to stop people just buying it to use it as a widescreen iPod!!!! If I lived in the states I'd be one of those guys that got up at 6am this morning to start lining up

If a shaft is too stiff, you'd usually see a lower ball flight ('cos clubhead doesn't flex as much towards target 'cos of stiffer flex'd shaft) and because of a lower ball flight you'd loose distance. You might have a tendency to fade a bit as well, so if you normally hit a slight draw you might end up with a slight fade. If you hit a fade normally you might end up slicing. So in combination you'd hit a low fade (so yeah it'd start straight and slowly hook to the right). How does it feel on center hits, like a block of 4x4? or a nice sweet senstation? Torque might also cause a slight fade / slice (note torque causes the clubhead to twist before you hit the ball, not at impact!). So maybe try the same stiffness with a lower torque??? although looking at stats recently most shafts (graphite that is) have a torque less that 6 or 7 degrees, so unless you are really muscling it that shouldn't really be an issue. Note you can have a shaft that has too low a torque for your swing!!! for us amateurs anywhere within 4-6 is fine. If as indacup suggests your 5 iron is around 85mph, then I'd be looking at stiff if you have a fast tempo, maybe regular if you have a slow tempo??

"I can stick it better with an iron than a pitch shot." Same here!! Right now if I were on a 260 yard par 3, I'd take an 8 off the tee followed by a PW (basically two full swings) rather than a 3 wood followed by a 30 yard chip. At least then I'd have a chance at par

So far we've got tdinneen - GIR formula 79 in reality 90, so +11 shots off CG031's Dad - GIR formula 61 in reality 80, so +19 shots off iacas - GIR formula 80.6 in reality 76.5, so - 4.1 shots off irfan - GIR formula 81 in reality 88, so +7 shots off lamebums - GIR formula 73 in reality 90, so + 17 shots off So other than iacas (who obviously has a solid short game with a 1.87 GIR putting average and almost 50% saved chips / pitches, Tiger's stats albeit for all greens GIR'd or not is 1.8 which is taken from 29.5 putts per round on average taken from http://sportsline.com/golf/stats ). Everyone else like me suffers from.. well I won't say bad short game, but if they were to sort out the short game they'd start shooting way lower.

I recently read a nice golfing term called a DeVito for tricky little 5 footers Any other essential golfing diction I should know about. Also, if anyone has good quotes as well. I like these "Golf is a good walk ruined." - Mark Twain “If you’re caught on a golf course during a storm and are afraid of lightning, hold up a 1-iron. Not even God can hit a 1-iron.” - Lee Trevino

OK, I'd like to start a thread based on the following article http://golfdigest.com/instruction/br...k80greens.html Here's the snippet I'd like to discuss "Most golfers think putting is the biggest factor in scoring, but greens in regulation (GIRs) are much more important. So important, you almost don't need to look at anything else to predict your score. The most useful score-analysis tool I've developed, called "Riccio's Rule" and first published in Golf Digest in 1987, predicts score based on GIRs: Score = 95 – 2 x GIRs." I usually hit 7-8 GIRs per round, based on the formula I should be going around in 79, yet I hit in the high 80's low 90's. This is all to do with my short game. Last night for example I hit 8 GIRs but had 8 triple putts and only 2 up and downs. 42 putts in total. So clearly for me putting is the biggest factor in my score (more than half my shots in this case). If people can reply giving their score using that formula and their actual normal score that'd be great. And maybe discuss if you think the formula is accurate or not.

I have a Scotty Newport 2 like yourself. I think my actual putting stroke is fine (it's arched nicely and yep I know about the left versus right eye... but interesting about placing the ball back for pulls and forward for pushed, makes sense but never really though about it). The ball at least starts out on the intended line. It's just the intended line or line I read ends up no where near the hole same for distance at times, it's mostly good but if I do misread I usually think it's going to go faster than it does, so drop short, sometimes way short. Also I only hole maybe 30-40% of 5-6 footers (well at Langara anyway, they just don't like placing the pin on a nice easy flat pitch there I'm not in the market yet for a driver, however I'm keen on getting a 3 wood or 17/18 degree hybrid. Something that'll get me 230 yards or so. I have tried a couple and like the Nickent 3DX and Callaway X hybrids. The Mizuno F-50 fairway is quite nice as well. Any other recommendations would be welcome.

Had a good laugh myself guess I had 20 over in my head, either that or I can't add which is just as likely!!

Believe it or not my friends and I talk this way on the golf course all the time...sort of trash talking...but always nothing personal.....my golf buddy that I play with weekly is a 10 handicap who uses the MP 67s...on the range he is money....but on the course it's not the same...as a matter of fact I usually take his money b/c his irons play is not as good (although he is fundamentally a better ball striker)....it's only b/c I have used the MP32 for about a year that I know how tough it is to use those on the course.... In my opinion, I'm also a solid ball stricker. I wouldn't be hitting 8 GIRs a round with a 5 iron as my longest club at the moment if I didn't have a fundamentally solid and consistent swing with my irons. You have to at least give me that! and even the 12 green's I missed I'd say I was off by no more than 10 yards on 3 or 4 of them. A couple of the others I had to lay up 'cos with a 5 iron you just can't reach the green in 3. Like I said I could care less about what you use, but I would bet if you have a little more forgiving irons (755, mp60, etc) with perhaps stiffer shafts like maybe DG X100 or Flighted Project X 6.5 your handi will drop even more I tried about 15+ clubs over 4 weeks. The 755's and the MP-60's included. I also tried and and really liked the Project X's but couldn't justify spending $30 a club extra (and waiting another 3 weeks for a custom order given I was gagging to get out on the course), I also found that they hit a little loftier than the DG S300's but looking at the launch monitor they were flying the same distance but with a different flight, an initally steeper angle of attack, not as high but flatter at the top for longer. From memory I think they were 6.0's? I really wanted to like the MP-60's as from reading reviews it sounded like they were a good fit for me. But it just didn't happen for me, I didn't even want to try the MP-32's until the club fitter put one in my hands and said try this instead. Everything just felt right, my previous favourite's were the X Tours and I was getting similar results (althoug the X-Tours were longer but they have a 1/4" longer shaft from memory) but the MP-32's had that Mizuno feel that I liked, and the would draw or fade more easily. And to be honest, I find them quite forgiving... on the course included even when compared to cavity backs. But you are right, knowing my mates who also hit in the 90's I wouldn't recommend any kind of Mizuno's other than MX-19's or 25's... but I can base this recommendation on knowing their game and their swing Trust me I tried almost every club in the game improvement to forgiving players (I'd put the MP-32's in the forgiving players club category, from scratch to maybe 12 or 14, but knowing my game that's well within the range of my iron handicap) and I kept gravitating towards the blade like clubs as I was getting the same level of accuracy but I could force a draw or a fade a little easier with some of the blades (not all, the MP-67's and Ping S58's were all over the shop . And I take your recommendation seriously, for probably 95% of golfers out there they'd benefit greatly from that advice. And I hate to say this 'cos you said don't say it but I have always been the exception to the rule I've represented my province (I'm Irish so that translates to state) in shot putting, javelin, discus and hammer throwing and I've represented my country in hammer throwing on a couple of occasions. If you need something thrown far I'm your man and a lot of motion involved in using those big muscles to generate power, particularily the rotational forces applied in hammer throwing translate very nicely to the power swing. The body position, angles and balance is also reasonable similar. Besides the fact that I've spent close to five years of practising 2-3 hours every day breaking down the technique required to little tiny changes with a professional coach. That equates to 48 years of one hour golf lessons every week now again I'm not saying I'm a great golfer, far from it. But I know feel when it comes to sports and I'm quite kinetically intelligent, so I think my opinion counts when it comes down to swinging a golf club. This is how when you combine my power to my ability to hit the ball well with a long iron to a driver you get a good 280 yards. Unfortunately throwing heavy objects doesn't build finesse in the short game I believe now what you have said....but you gotta admit there are a lot of people out there that fabricate a lot.... Absolutely, I see what you are talking about all the time on the driving range, I'm surprised some people can even hit the ball with the swings they have.... and then you see shiny new Nike blades like Tiger plays in their bags. But you gotta admit when you are giving an honest opinion and you know what you are talking about, certainly when it comes to iron play it's not nice to be called a liar. Now if I can just sort out my putting (I had 42 putts last night, last week I also played Langara and although my putting wasn't great I had 36 putts, that's 6 shots right there my pitching, well the less said about that the better. I have Pelz's short game book and I've read it but I haven't put it into practise yet (I should probably get his putting book as well I seem to hit my pitches long 80% or so of the time, maybe 20% longer than would be ideal. The rest are short by 20-30%. I have a strategy for my next round, I'm going to practise swing normally for a pitch shot to get the distance, then practise 80% of that... then hit. So I'll be playing the percentage's so to speak. But if you have any advise or drills that you like that you think might help me that'd be great. Putting wise, my distance isn't too bad, I'll either get the distance just right to a nice foot and a half long or it's be well short (maybe 30% short). Reading the line is my issue, from 20 feet I'll be lucky to get the ball within 5 foot left or right of the hole most of the time. Which leaves me with a DeVito (a tricky little 5 footer if you haven't heard that one before

Good post wengerlaw, I was just about to do the same when I read the "no such thing as muscle memory". Muscle memory exists pure and simple (and it has nothing to do with your actual muscles having dendrites or not, they don't as you rightly pointed out), that's not my opinion, it's science. You wouldn't be able to walk or ride a bike without thinking about that motion without muscle memory. Take learning the guitar, you have to start by moving each finger into place to play a chord. Over time your brain learns that basic movement pattern and after a few months you no longer think, index to 1st fret on B string etc.. etc.. you simple tell yor brain play a C Chord.... that's muscle memory. Same with riding a bike, you have to start with learning not to fall over, balance is all wrong and you have to consciously think about weight shifts... but after a while it all becomes natural, no thinking involved.... that's muscle memory. Although I'm not the worlds greatest golfer, I am a qualified ski instructor and I've also represented my country a number of times in hammer throwing... and I can attest to the fact that at that level in those sports... drills work and work very well at getting people to feel certain motions, once they begin to feel that particular motion they can try and integrate it into the full set of motions needed to complete that action,

OK, I'm not mad this time 'cos your last email was at least instructive and didn't call me a liar (well a little bit, I never said that I hit 280 yards now, I used to when I played 3 years ago, same for my 230 yard fairway woods... I currently only have irons, and have for the last few rounds only hit a 5 iron off the tee, I've said this in about 3 posts already). I'm just back from a round in Langara (it's a moderate course with a 120 slope rating, it's greens are tricky though, well for me anyway). I hit a 92, so 20 over (and yet again blew up on the back 9, I was 6 over for the front 9). 8 GIRs, yes 8 GIRs. 8 three putts (6 of those where on my GIR'd holes, so pars were sparse today), and only 2 up and downs. A 5 iron was the longest club I hit! So clearly I have a good long game in which I only use my MP-32's as I have no driver, fairway woods or hybrids (good enough in my opinion to merit MP-32's if I think and my club fitter though they were the best clubs for me) and a crap short game (where I use a 52 degree, a 56 degree and a putter, all of which aren't MP-32's ). To call me a liar just because that's the way I play golf is way outta line. To actually make this into a constructive thread, I've seen a formula that states that your score based on GIRs should be 95 - (GIRs x 2), which should as you rightly pointed out get me sub 80. But it's obviously based on a rounded game. There must be people out there like me, that have good long but bad short games and vice versa. How many people out there find it's completely off for there rounds. Although I reckon no one is going to read this far so I'll let you do the honors if you are interested in getting peoples opinion on this. I only mention this and I only bothered replying to this email because of your last statement "I love this website about the honest reviews on the various golf equipment but some of these posts about one's owns abilities is just out of this world..." Which seems to suggest that maybe you are a nice guy and not a complete ass#ole (that's a joke masquerading as an apology by the way). I have been completely honest about my scores and my opinions on the clubs I reviewed. I think having a discussion on 95 - (GIRs x 2) might make an interesting thread.

Awesome analysis Ringer. I just checked out your website and see that you provide swing analysis online for just $15. Expect some video's from me soon

I'm not trying to be smart here but to me confidence is a mental game. But, yes it is a catch-22.

Cheers for that. Incidentally I used the golfdigeschallange to put my last round in, my long game handicap is 12 while my short game handicap is 36... ouch (incidentally not a single message or dialog was thrown up indicating that my round was "statistically impossible"

Setup looks good, takeaway might be a little to the outside (hard to tell with the angle)? plane angle is good but at the top of the swing it looks like your left wrist has broken down and your shaft is pointing way left of the target line which sets you up for that outside in. You can see that outside in by... well the clubhead, but your hands are too far out. If you were to draw a line up from the shaft to the center of your right shoulder, then your hands on the downswing should be pretty much on that line. Incidentally when you see video's and shots taken in the mags (generally, or at least this is what Leadbetter recommends) it's taken about hip height half way between the ball and the feet. Not down the line of the feet.

Yeah, stiffness is measured by the shafts frequency response. Think of a guitar string, if you fret it you are in effect reducing it's length and it's frequency goes up, hence the difference in sound (you'll also notice that a freted string is more taut => stiffer). How much it's changes I don't know?