ChrisGSZ

Thanks for that - I'll take a look. I joined only recently and I'm still finding my way around.....

I was director and professor of sports science at Bath University, UK. I've now retired and I write scientific books on sport. My first is is on the golf swing! thegolfswingzone.com

The original post actually focussed on two things - what to practise, and how to practise. Much of the debate (in fact nearly all of it - from just a skip-read...) has focussed on the 'what'. Given limited practice time, most people would improve by addressing the 'how' a bit more. In particular, good players who want to get to the very top need to focus on the how.... I'm referring to the science of 'deliberate practice' - to give it it's technical term. It's becoming the norm in other sports. Erik hinted at it in the original post. Does this deserve a new thread?

The 'trick' might be to simply think of keeping the hips 'quiet' during the downswing and then 'square at impact'. The reasons for this are: 1. The downswing is undobtedly a rotational action and the hips certainly have to rotate. But it's a 'quiet' rotation because it's towards the beginning of the kinetic chain. The role of the hips is to transfer energy from the initial push against the ground into body rotation. The key hip action is actually to decelerate in order to do pass the energy on. So thinking of 'turning the hips' can easily cause the hips to work 'too hard' and destroy the timing in the kinetic chain. 2. Thinking of sliding the hips will probably prevent excess hip action because it takes the focus away from rotation. But a 'hip slide' runs the risk of excess weight shift etc., so I feel focussing on 'quietly rotating' the hips has the same effect without the risks. And then a focus on 'square at impact' encourages the deceleration.

Your problem will go away once you start believing that power/distance/clubhead speed doesn't come from the strength of your arms. A good first step would be to find a clear explanation of the 'biokinetic chain' and understand how it works. Then read a little about minimising resistance in the downswing by keeping arms and club close to the body. And finally, understand how a double pendulum works - you'll then see why a passive wrist release maximises clubhead speed. Sounds complicated, but the reading is interesting... Once you realise where swing power really comes from, you'll be less inclined to overpower your swing with your arms. It's mostly a matter of belief in the mechanics and using it to curb your natural instincts....

I've only skip-read through this thread but what seems to be missing is what we should actually do (i.e. focus on mentally) during the downswing. 1. If we focus on accelerating body parts through impact, then we run the risk of destroying the intricate timing of the kinetic chain. Each body section has to slow down to pass energy on to the next link in the chain - so trying to accelerate something that needs to slow down can only disrupt things 2. If we focus on accelerating the clubhead , then we won't encounter this problem - our body parts are free to accelerate and slow down as they require. It's worth remembering that the golf swing is a thing of physics, but it's controlled totally by our very un-physics-like brains. A simple mental focus on clubhead acceleration is likley to achie´ve better 'physics' than a mental focus on hips, arms, etc.....

One thing that often happens on the range is that we think more 'internally' - about technique. Thinking internally disrupts a fluid swing and makes it more 'jerky'. We forget to think about the clubhead, the ball flight, or the target (all external thoughts, which we know promote good coordination and fluid, automated swings). Things can go from bad to worse as the worse we get, the more we think about technique and worse our coordination gets. Two things might help: 1. We need to think a little bit internally - so its best to focus on fewer, bigger swing components, rather than lots of small details. 2. If things do go wrong - spend the next 20 shots thinking totally externally - not about detailed technique. Let your coordination ('automaticity') recover.....

iacas - no problem.... We actually agree about the mechanics - a stable hub/head is important for a rotary action and a wandering head will ruin it. My point was not about what to do but on how to do it - the skill-learning parameters that we can build on top of the biomechanics. A thought to 'keep the head still' can disrupt coordination. Thoughts such as 'turn in a barrel' can have a similar result and because it addresses a bigger 'package' of movements promotes other good things as well. Glad you mentioned compensation.... At one time variability (compensation) was thought of as wrong and needed to be eradicated. Now we know a bit of it is actually essential for any high level skill. (emphasis is on 'a bit of it'....)

Thanks for the above two comments... I'm well into my 60's - I'm skinny and not very strong. I find a tight radius gives considerably more power. A bigger, younger, stronger guy can use their muscles to generate power very effectively - and they probably have increased control. Swings and roundabouts.... And yes, I agree that we can control the downswing - I was just pointing out that it's very quick and we only have time for one or two thoughts....

That's very interesting..... It might be a good idea be aware of your left elbow - it locks suddenly, which over time might cause injury....

Hi Logman, Thanks for this info..... I see - so lever 1 is the upper arm (short) and lever 2 is the forearm plus club (very long). In pure biomechanics terms this makes sense. From a skill-learning perspective though it feels unnatural (I tried it) and most of us want things to 'feel right'. So I guess it's just down to the individual. Interestingly, one of the greatest ever golfers - Harry Vardon - played with a bent left elbow.... Maybe he knew something....? Once again, thanks for the update

The problem is - the downswing lasts just 0.2 seconds - not much time to think about anything. Here's a suggestion: We now have a lot of high quality research into what makes the golf swing work'. In a nutshell, there are three scientific fundamentals to produce a powerful, straight and effortless shot: 1. Muscular coordination - from the ground up - legs - hips - trunk - shoulders - arms. Each muscle group generates power and passes it on the the next link in the (biokinetic) chain (like a corkscrew). This creates maximum rotational energy. 2. A tight initial downswing radius - keeping the clubhead close to the body (wrap it round your body). This reduces resistance to the rotational energy produced in #1. So we produce maximum rotational speed . 3. A passive wrist release (don't hit), which promotes a natural 'double pendulum' wrist release. We convert the maximum rotational speed into maximum clubhead speed. Three things is still too much to think about in 0.2 seconds!! That's why the golf swing is difficult. BUT - there are some simple swing thoughts that can encourage these things to happen: 'Easy from the inside' ''Swing then sling' 'Wrap and release' I'd be interested to hear of others....

Focusing on the quadrants is likely to be hugely beneficial - but not because of the physics. The physics are important, but the greatest advantage of this method is that it encourages an 'external' mental focus - the ball. We've known for decades that sports skills deteriorate when we focus internally on technique and improve most rapidly when we focus externally on 'other things'. The ball (or it's quadrants) is an excellent external focus and will develop our swing effectively whatever the physics.....

Here's a little basic science, for what it's worth... During a golf swing, hundreds - thousands - of things happen. And of course we can't control (think about) most of them. But its not a problem, because humans have fantastic 'implicit' (subconscious) control systems that do it for us. When we perform a skill, our bodies make hundreds of complicated movements and adjustments which all work together to achieve the aim - e.g. hitting the ball. We hammer a nail (an equally complex movement) without any thought of head movement. Our problem is, when we think about one position or movement (e.g. the head) within this complex system, we effectively 'fix' that bit - so our wonderful, self-adjusting control system is disrupted. It no longer has the freedom of movement to coordinate and self-adjust. And the more such details we think about, the worse the disruption gets... In all skill-based striking sports, a variable swing is the best swing because the variability is actually our control system doing it's job - adapting and adjusting. Sure, our heads might move or they might not not - but it's not a concern because it's just adapting to everything else that's going on. Isolating one thing in a good player's swing and measuring it (because we can) actually tells us very little about the full package of movements. Better to think about more 'global' things...