baw1

Thanks. The good news is that I in fact did so over the weekend. It was a mixed round, but did very well on the back-9 (detailed in previous post). Appreciate the encouragement! Sometimes I feel like progress is just so elusive. I guess that's golf though and just have to keep reminding myself to be patient and set proper expectations..

Saw this in another post/thread: ---------------------------------------------- Appendix I, Part A, paragraph 2b pertains: 2. Water Hazards b. Ball Played Provisionally Under Rule 26-1 Permitting play of a ball provisionally under Rule 26-1 for a ball that may be in a water hazard (including a lateral water hazard ) of such character that, if the original ball is not found, it is known or virtually certain that it is in the water hazard and it would be impracticable to determine whether the ball is in the hazard or to do so would unduly delay play.

UPDATE: I broke 100 on Saturday! 97. Crazy round. 55 on front-9 and 42 on back-9 (3 pars and a birdie on the the back). 1 Birdie 3 pars 6 bogies 6 doubles 2 quadruples 3 fairways 2 GIRs 2 penalties 0 sand shots 31 putts Observations: 1) I was not penalty free. Mishit a drive out of bounds on #2 and hit one into a water hazard on #4. 2) Most of my tee shots off the par-4s and par-5s (Driver) were not that good. My typical miss right now is a slice to the right. I can get the ball ~200-230+, but they are in the rough or on the other fairway. Need to get better stability and confidence with this club. Right now it is just too much of a crap shoot each time. 3) It feels good to get into double digits 4) Shot 108 on Sunday :) Never got into a good rhythm, but did some good things. Clearly there is much work still to be done!

I have been playing for a year as well. I have had 2 birdies to date. Celebrated the 1st one quite a bit. They were on a par-4 and a par-5. As others have said though, Birdies are for advanced level..If you just started playing though and have only played 4 times, I would say you are in very good shape so far.

Thanks for the support!

Same here. I'll have a really good session on the range with very few mishits/shanks..Then I get on the course and cant hit. I seem to struggle more on 1st hole or two (as a general rule). Perhaps it is just nerves/tension that needs to be shaken off or maybe inadequate warmup. I try not to over do the warmups though as then I am just fatigued before even stepping foot on the course..

Thanks PJCdude. Good to hear from others that are around the same level. As far as the penalties, I don’t think that is the sole criteria. Sure, if you have too many it will cost you, but in general if you are hitting decent drives (straight or left/right of fairway) and decent approach shots (without too many mishits) then you can recover from the penalties. As far as the putting, mid-30s is typical for me. Just to be clear, I am not counting putts that I make off the 1 st cut of the green or beyond. The count only includes all putts once I am on the green. I lump everything else into the count measuring “strokes to the green”. So I played again today and shot 106. 35 putts. 1 penalty. I got off to a very bad start. Triple bogey on opening par-4 hole followed by a 10 on the par-5 2 nd hole (lots of mishits). Then I had my penalty on the drive for the par-4 3 rd hole (hit it out of bounds) leading to another triple bogey on the 3 rd . It was as though I forgot how to hit a golf ball with my shots spraying all over the place. After that I settled down though and started to play better. Front-9 was 56. Back-9 was 50.

Thanks. I do spend a lot of time either playing or at the practice range/green. Initially I took some lessons as well with 2 different instructors. I am not working with anybody though right now as I want to just play and get some reps under my belt. At some point I think you have to just do it. Not saying that I wouldn't get more instruction at some point, but for now I have what I need and the rest needs to happen naturally over time (IMO).

Thanks for all the feedback here. In summary, the correct course of action is: --------------------------------------------------------------- 1) play a provisional ball from the tee 2) proceed to approximate original ball exit area and see if original ball can be located within the hazard area (everything leading up to the fence). 3) If original ball is located within hazard area, play ball (2nd stroke) or take a drop with 1-penalty stroke (3rd stroke). 4) if original ball is not found, play the provisional ball hit. So this would be the 4th stroke of the hole. As far as why the red sticks are there. Here are the possibilities as I understand them: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1) mismarked 2) intentionally there so to allow/encourage players to drop (speed up play theory)...even though it may not be a "bona fide" hazard and this maybe "wrong".. 3) by-design bona fide hazard area

Ok, below is a satellite view of the hole in question. The trajectory of the ball is represented by the dotted black/red line. The blue line is the fence. The 6 individual red dots are the red stakes. Again, it is not clear as to the ball's final resting spot (inside or outside the fence).

Chris223, Thanks for the feedback and the book recommendation. I have heard of it. You need to get to the green first before you need to worry about chipping/putting. On the other hand, if you get to the green in regulation (or close to it) and mess up a chip or 3,4 putt, then the outcome is the same as far as score (I think). My guess would be that depending on skill/experience level, long/mid/short game importance shifts as it pertains to score.

I am pretty sure you are right and the fence is the starting point for an OB area (even though there are no white sticks). The committe probably assumed that is intuitive enough. So hazard followed by OB. Thanks again for your response John.

Thanks for the feedback. Ok, so stroke+distance was the proper penalty here (or provisional ball) since it was not certain if the ball landed in the hazard. The assumption here is that there is a finite hazard area with something else beyond it (OB or otherwise). Part of my confusion though is understanding if the hazard area ever really ends? Meaning that basically anything landing beyond the red sticks (before or after the neighbors fence) could be considered "in the hazard"? So put a little differently the question is whether the hazard area might extend indefinitely (so eligible for hazard rule/drop)?

During my round yesterday, my playing partner hit an errant tee shot that sliced to the right. Along the right side of the fairway beyond the initial high cut ruff are red sticks indicating a hazard area. The hazard area is ~10-15 yards in width with high weeds which eventually leads to a ~8 feet high steel fence. Beyond the fence is a neighboring facility (not part of the golf course). It was not clear whether the ball landed in the hazard/weeds area or if it landed in the neighboring facility. There are no white (out of bounds) sticks present anywhere. Trying to understand whether the ball should be declared out of bounds (penalty + distance) or in the hazard (eligible for drop at approximate exit location)? I am assuming that beyond the fence is "out of bounds"? And if we knew with certainty that the ball landed beyond the fence it should be declared out of bounds? Thanks in advance for any insights

Appreciate the advice! One hole at a time.

Thanks. Will do!

Thanks. I realized after the round that I had no penalties (and no lost balls). However, I do think you can recover from penalties as long as you have 1-2 better than average holes to make up for the penalty holes..For where I am at right now I am just trying to continue to improve my mechanics/execution/accuracy across the driver/wood/irons as well as with the chipping/putting. Score should come down once I am 'better' across the different phases of the game. I think it is really that simple..

Just sharing as I am quite excited to have had my best round of golf. I started playing a year ago. Around ~60 rounds so far. Yesterday I shot 100, my best score so far. 1-par, 9-bogeys, 5-doubles, 3-triples. 6/15 Fairways 1-GIR 4-sand shots 34-putts No penalties Front-53, back-47 My goal for the season was to break 100. Getting very close as my typical round over the last couple months has been in low 100’s. There is light at the end of the tunnel!

Thanks again for clarifying this. I guess one of may takeaways from this is not to pay TOO much attention to the listed scorecard distance for individual holes. It's only a starting reference point. I played at a course today that had special signs on many of the tees with exact tee-to-flag distances listed for each tee (as they were set up today). Have not seen that before. Since I don't use a range finder, this was helpful to know..

Thanks for your response. If I am following correctly, the "total" yardage when it is all said and done should be fairly close to the total on the scorecard (for those tees). Regardless if on several holes there is no distance difference between middle and back tees (tee markers together for those holes). It sounds like my other assumption that the "207" distance or "233" distance are maintained may not be necessarily true though. In other words the distance number on the scorecard does not equate to the distance between the tee-marker and the flag?

I am a relative newbie to the game so apologies if this is a basic question/s. I searched for clues on it but could not find much info. When entering your score into a handicap system, you need to also specify the tees that were used (back, middle, or front). The slope/rating for each is different and therefore has an impact. As an example, a par-3 hole distance for the middle-tees is listed on the scorecard as 207. The distance for the back tees on that same hole is listed as 233. I believe that these distances are measured from the ‘plates’ in the tee area ground to the ‘center’ of the green (generally speaking)? So when the tee markers are moved around and not aligned with the ‘plates’, is that so they will derive the same expected distance (for the given tees) based on flag/hole location movement? So in other words using the example above, would the distance between the middle tees and the flag be 207 and the back tees and the flag be 233? Yesterday I played a course where on several holes the middle and back tee markers were together. That would seem to contradict the above assumption. Also, if the middle/back are teeing off from same spot, then how is this reflected when entering the score (per above). The total distance difference between middle and back tees (according to the score card) is supposed to be ~600 yards…? Thanks in advance for feedback on this..

Oops. Looks like I misspoke on the correct rules. The options for the lost ball scenario (excluding out-of-bounds or water hazard situations) are to take a provisional (as you state) or to walk back to the tee and and replay from there + 1-stroke penalty (stroke and distance). Apparently there is no option for dropping at all (if I read the rules correctly). A couple of observations: 1) The assumption with the provisional ball use case is that you are pretty sure your ball is lost so you eat the penalty and go for your 3rd shot at the tee (unless you recover the original in which case you just play that and pick up the provisional with no penalty and extra shot). However, often times you really don't know until you get down to the landing area that your ball is lost. Depending on the thick of the rough or even having poor long distance vision, many balls might not be easily recoverable. So I guess you can take lots of provisionals, but then that could slow pace down as well (by hitting extra shots and fetching the extra balls all over the place ..). 2) I have never seen anyone return to the tee to re-do a shot. This is a completely unrealistic scenario that does not work on a real golf course. The courses are busy and often backed up. No way are you going to see this. This is where the conflict comes in to play between real world golf circumstances and "pure" scoring. 3) I believe the rule is flawed regardless as you should be able to 'drop' at the most likely landing area. One stroke penalty should suffice. Don't see why this should be treated much differently than water hazard penalty (1-stoke and behind the hazard)?

I am curious as to whether there is a conflict or contradiction in terms of following the scoring "rules" and keeping proper pace/etiquette on the course (at the same time). If I hit my drive 10 yards off the fairway and cannot find the ball within a quick reasonable timeframe, the "right" thing to do in order not to slow down the group behind and/or other players in your group, is drop one and play on (with a penalty stroke added on). So my score is negatively impacted by that. However, maybe if I was alloted a couple more minutes, I would have found the ball? How does it work in tournament play? I know there are more eyeballs on the shots. How long before they have to deem the ball lost and take a drop (and penalty)? Here's how I go about it. Since I am not a pro or tournament player and a beginner at that, I drop a new ball very quickly (I carry lots of cheap balls), but without taking a penalty. I would much rather keep good pace and rhythm and not slow anyone else down. Knowing that there are a bunch of players waiting on me is stressful and ultimately impacts the quality of the next shot/s. If the course is slow however, I will take more time to search and eventually drop and take the penalty too (per official rules)..

I echo many of the sentiments here on price and length of play. I would add what for me is the most perplexing thing (at least at the current time). Golf success, as it is measured, is too hard to attain. There needs to be better benchmarks or metrics/analytics for beginner/novice players. There is a huge gap between starting out and getting to be "average". So examples may be breaking 130, breaking 120, breaking 110, getting one or more pars in a single round, getting one or more GIRs in a single round, etc.. So the idea is to smooth the measurement curve out. Not the learning curve though. Golf is a hard game and should remain hard. That's not the issue IMHO. The issue is the "expectation" to break 100 or 90 or 80 which all require much much play and practice (years). Dare I say become "scratch". Dan McLaughlin (thedanplan.com), has been practicing/playing every day for 4 years straight (~5,000 hours so far). He is only now at 2.8 handicap (still over par).

Congrats. I am jealous and curious as to your journey as well. I picked up the game for the 1st time at the end of last Summer (I am 44). Played around ~25 rounds so far. Had 2 sets of lessons. Practice a lot. Best score so far was 108. Last few rounds went back up though to 122, 120, & 116. I set a goal to break 100 by this season's end (oct/nov timeframe).