badbeatj

Ok I don't want to take away from the point or topic of this thread. Are you saying the ball does or doesn't matter for a mid 80s player? If it doesn't matter, at what point does it start mattering?

Haha I'm waiting for season to start to test it out in real life. I'm only going by consistent launch monitor numbers. On wedge shots 100-120 yards Premium balls spin at over 10k while the E6 spins at 7-8k When I see the reaction of the ball on a green (in simulator) , it's also very different. Who knows, maybe in real life it'll be the same... I'll report back in a few weeks.

I think I'm pretty adament about the ball becuase of my experience in the past year. I have a Uneekor Qed simulator. It ships with dotted Bridgestone E6s. (there's dots on the ball to properly calculate spin). When playing easy courses and soft Greens, it doesn't really matter whether I use Bridgestone or premium. But on courses like Augusta, firm fast Greens, even if you land it close, the roll out will be ridiculous and will most likely be a 2 putt. If you are a mid 80s player and on the wrong side of a slope on the green, then it most likely means a 3 putt. Being frustrated playing Augusta is why I ordered these vinyl dots that I can stick on a pro v1. I then saw first hand how much difference a ball makes. Every round, with a pro v1, I stick at least 2 balls within 6-8 ft of the pin which was impossible with Bridgestone E6 unless I was lucky with how it rolled out. It also helps that I'm able to look at the full ball data including ball speed, launch angle and back spin / side spin. There is definitely a difference.

I think both of you are correct. The golfer obviously controls the ball but you do have to play approach shots differently depending on whether you are using a ball that spins a lot or little. Now that I play premium balls, on 40-60 yard approaches on par 5s, I expect 2-3 hops and check/stop. (if lie was relatively flat). That's hitting it with about 7k back spin. If I play a ball like Bridgestone e6, on a 40-60 yard shot, I'm getting like 4k back spin and ball will release past the hole. Ofcourse, I don't always hit it with 7k back spin (as I'm mid 80s) and sometimes will misthit and hit it with 3500 back spin and then it goes past the hole but the point is valid that if playing a less premium ball, you obviously have to account for less spin / more release and so, you need to land it shorter. Caveat, I say I'm mid 80s but I will soon find out if I've improved when season starts. (still snow on the ground where I am) I played about 15 times last year (shooting mid 80s) but I got a golf Sim and have been practicing like 1-2 hours everyday. I normally break 80 now on courses like TPC Sawgrass, Pebble Beach, Bandon Dunes, Cypress Pointe, Augusta playing from approx 6600-6800 yards Obviously Sim is not real life as lie is always perfectly flat and I never lose a ball and bunker shots are easy but main thing is, I'm swinging like 1-2 hours a day (in fact I played 4 rounds today) and working from home during covid has made me so much more unproductive with respect to work but I feel like my golf game got a lot better.

Lol what if I'm risk averse? What if I would do a $20 bet instead and hit 10 balls and I could guess right 80% of the time?

Not to argue but you were clear in what you said Highly unlikely. Virtually every ball is at the limit of ball speed. That was the comment you wrote when I said I can feel the difference between a Tour B XS VS Kirkland Performance + By commenting on what I wrote and starting your conversation in that manner is argumentative and implies that 15 handicappers can't tell the difference between the 2 balls. You might not have meant this and meant you can't tell difference between balls in the same class but what you wrote does not convey that clearly

Are you saying you can't feel the difference between the 2 balls or can't tell the difference in ball speed? If you're talking about 2 balls in the same class, you're probably right. The topic of this thread however is not that. It's between a premium ball VS a cheaper ball so I was writing about my experience between a Bridgestone Tour B XS VS Kirkland Performance + I only know the difference in ball speed from looking at the launch monitor. (no one would be able to tell a 3 mph difference between 157 and 160 The only thing I can feel is that one feels softer on impact. Is that just in my head?

Sorry ball speed. The Tour B's have faster ball speed yet feels softer. Kirkland feels harder and ball speed is slightly slower. Backspin wise, Kirkland actually spins slightly more on full wedge shots. The only way I would know the difference however is that the Tour B's don't feel as hard on the hands and actually feels good as it comes off the face of the driver.

I see you were saying difference between Pro V1 and Bridgestone Tour B. That would be tougher but I do feel that Tour B seems softer? Am I right? I don't know the composition of the balls. But I have hit a ton of balls in the last couple of months

Lol Bridgestone Tour B Xs VS Kirkland Performance +? LOL guaranteed I can...

I'm trying to get to a point where maximum curve of draw/hook is 30 yards right to left. This allows me to aim at right edge of fairway 285 yds down and hit a normal draw shot and expect to be on the fairway or at worst, left rough. Ideally it's only curving 10-15 yards max but it's hard to be that precise...

I'm mid to high 80s and ball speed is 155-160 mph Some of my friends play Kirkland performance + so I tested it against balls I usually play which are Bridgestone Tour B XS and Pro V1. Kirkland balls BS is slightly slower and feels harder on impact. With wedges, Kirkland actually spins more than the Bridgestones but the feel is not good. Same with putting. I can safely say that if I did a blindfold test, I'd know which ball is which. Now if the question is would I score any differently? Probably not. The 3-4 mph ball speed difference on drivers and the harder ball feel might translate to maybe a stroke? I think it's more to do with your head. For me though, I don't get to go out and play much so I use a premium ball because it feels better when I swing or putt. Now if the question was low spin cheap ball VS high spin premium, it definitely matters. There are times on a par 3 where I stuck a 150 yd shot on a right pin which was surrounded by water. Any other ball and I know it would have bounced 3-5 times into the water. That being said, I read LSW and now aim for middle of the green LOL

I've read that before as well but some guy has also shown a mathematical formula for calculating side spin? Correct or not, I think some of the launch monitors show / report side spin hence we look at those numbers. For example, if my drive is anywhere 100-300 rpm side spin, I'm pretty happy because the ball shape that normally takes place is a small curve.

So a baby draw. What does that look like in terms of side spin?

LOL that's what I do too but every now and then I'll slice the ball which pretty much ruins a hole

I've read the differences between draws and hooks. From what I gather, a draw (for a right handed person) has the ball start to the right of centre and come back to the centre line / target A pull hook starts left of centre and continues to go left resulting in a far left miss. What is a normal hook then? Does it start right of centre and then comes too far left and crosses over the centreline and ends up on the left side? I have been working on my driver alot this past couple of months. The issue I am having is that I will hit a proper draw 8/10 times but that 2/10 will not draw and is rather more a straight ball <50 RPM sidespine OR more disastrously a 350 RPM right side spin and it'll slice further right 30 yards of centre line. As a result, I almost prefer aiming right side of fairway and hitting a foresure draw or hook that will at worst keep me left edge of fairway or even left rough (but not OB) Is there a more concrete description or definition of a proper draw? For example, Hit ball 2 degrees right and have left side spin of 250 RPM? Whereas I'm probably hitting more like 3-3.5 degrees right and have a 450 RPM left side spin?

Thanks for your comments. I Definitely am working on a more repeatable swing. Golf is a really tough sport lol and even the slightest change results in a push or pull. I've read comments / articles such as Play The Shot You Have That Day Every day when we get to the course, our body feels a little bit different. Maybe you got in a... Is this rubbish? If you have a fine tuned swing, should your shot be changing at all on a given day? Your absolutely right about the distance dispersion. My mishits are more to do with missing the sweet spot and hitting toe of the club and losing distance. I do that about 3 times out of 20. I feel like I need to fix this

@iacas@klineka After hitting a bunch of 9 irons, what I realized is, consistency is really hard. To keep the mental focus hit after hit is exhausting and any difference in a swing due to a mental lapse has a disastrous outcome. Stringing about 10 in a row is the limit for my level of focus before mind starts to wander... I also looked at my spreadsheet and changed all the negative integers to positive as that is more accurate as left or right side miss shouldn't even each other out. I'm still within the 10 yard average. Are these numbers what you would expect from a mid 80s player?

Ok finally had some time today Here are 2 separate groups of 20 shots and a group of 10 (spreadsheet attached) My misses are generally short (125-130 yards) which happened twice I think on the 2 sets of 20. Data_0205141551.csv Data_0205134541.csv So in terms of average of 50 shots I'm well within the 10 yards but in terms of consistency, I'm probably more like 80 %

My goal this year is to shoot on avg 82 and break 80 a few times. I will accomplish this by going down the list of separation values from most important to least. I will start by reading LSW first so the below strategy might need to change after reading the book. 1) I will start by figuring out how to hit a go to drive which will be a fade. (currently, I lose at least a ball a round (sometimes more) to an errant drive. Current drive is generally a draw that carries 260 but every now and then I'll hook it into the woods or slice badly. I'm hoping that I can hit this with a 250 yard carry and consistently hit it with tighter dispersion and keep the balls in play. 2) I will continue on my wedge and approach shots and goal will be to land (on the driving range / simulator) 80% of my shots within 10 yards of target for anything 100-125 yards and in. 3) I will work on pw - 7 iron and try to get 80% within 15 yards of target for anything 130-175 4) I will work on my 6 iron and try to 80% within 20 yards 5) I will work on my 4 and 5 iron and get 80% within 25 yards 6)Prior to every round, I will look at the course on app or google Earth and map out a strategy for every hole. 7) I will take an aimpoint lesson or something equivalent to help read the Greens better 😎 😎 8. I will practice chipping at least twice a week for 20 min 9) I will go to course early before a round and work on my 25+ ft lag putts and get 80% within 6 ft

Thank you so much! Will do!

I have a uneekor I will post the results by end of week. I've been practicing too much lately lol. My body is sore so I should take a break today and tomorrow. (well maybe I'll get back to it tomorrow)

Yes I clicked the link. It says averages. For many of the reasons listed here (perfect lie, perfect alignment of hitting mat, perfect conditions, no wind, forgiving mat) I do think that an avid recreational golfer could hit within 10 yards of target from 145 yard out (on average) without the Sim being improperly calibrated. (I use a uneekor) You are correct though that Sim and real life is very different. I don't have enough time to play more than 15 rounds a year and we have a much shorter season where I live. You are most likely right that when out in the real world, I'm outside of that 10 yard average due to all the various factors listed above) Only thing I can do is practice at home and try to dial it in as best as I can. Just as an aside, even the driving range on the Sim numbers is different than playing a course on a simulator due to undulating Greens, firmness of the Greens etc. Like Augusta for example is super difficult because if you hit the wrong part of the green, your ball rolls off so yes if we are talking on the course and sticking it within 10 yards, I am missing that. On the driving range though, I am within those numbers. Thank you I think I'll pick up arccos. It's - 15 Celsius here and grounds are covered in snow. I'll pick it up in April when courses are getting ready to open. I saw that they released a product called link which just clips to your belt so no need for cell phones in your pocket anymore. I am looking for a copy of LSW but it's $45 USD including shipping which is like. $60+ Cad. I think that would be the most I would have spent on a book minus my old college textbooks lol but gotta support. Long time lurker here and really appreciate you guys!

I spent a good deal of time on my Sim yesterday. My first 7 9 irons were within 10 yards (some even within 1-3 yards) . I then hooked one like 18 yards left. Are the Tour pros stats an average? Is there a consistency measurement that goes with their average? I would for sure fall Within 10 yards if it was average but my consistency would be far lower (which will obviously lead to blow up holes) The stats where it was really interesting was on their shots 200+ yds Their accuracy doesn't really go down despite the longer lengths. I think that's where we (recreational golfers) suffer. Sometimes I hit my 3 hybrid 230 Sometimes I hit it 180 when I mis hit. Sometimes I go left or right 25+ yards. Could further research show maybe this is the actual area that separates tour pros from rec and how that translates to lower scores? (along with consistency metrics?) If they hit their 3 hybrid consistently within 15 yards left or right 230-240 yards, that gives them much more opportunities to go up and down and save par or even birdie. Thanks for your advice. I did read through game golf thread and saw that they resolved all the issues. Which system is easier to use? I am actually looking into purchasing one. I will forsure forget to tap or press buttons before a shot. I think the new versions don't require that?

Sorry the question should be rephrased. At how wide of a fairway should the driver be put away? And I mean width as in hazards or trees on either side resulting in penalties on a mishit. I have local courses here that are short but narrow. I could hit hybrid off the tee to lay up and avoid a hazard (as fairway narrows to 25 yards at that point) It leaves me with a 150 yd 2nd shot. Is that the right play? If it's a wide fairway or next fairway is not blocked, I swing away normally and calculate the next fairway as part of my shot zone