Carland

I have worked for a while on getting my left hip over the outside of my left foot by impact, which I am starting to do a little more consistently. Now I'm working on keeping my shoulders feeling more square at impact and less open. I'm having a hard time with this move. It seems like looking at the ball instead of swiveling my head would keep the shoulders closer to square at impact. But I'm trying to figure out why shoulders square v. shoulders open matters if both techniques work for really good players. My index is 6.4 and I want to try to make real improvement this off-season instead of hanging up the clubs until next spring then struggling to get back where I left off.

Same with David Duval. Head swivel didn't stop him from being No. 1 in the world or winning the British Open. At the same time, when I look at swing sequence photos of pro golfers, most have their heads facing the ball at impact rather than swiveling. Here are Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods: So both approaches work. I'm just trying to figure out the pros and cons of both ways.

Thanks. I've been thinking more about head position at impact since reading Kris Tschetter's new book about her college days working with Ben Hogan. She wrote that Hogan instructed her to move her body in this order in the downswing: legs & hips then shoulders then arms & hands and last the head. When I look at a picture of Hogan's head, it is facing the ball at impact and not swiveling down the line. Are there problems caused by swiveling the head at impact?

iacas, do you believe that it is preferred for the shoulders to be square or slightly open at impact? Also, do you prefer the head point straight ahead at the ball at impact or swivel down the line? Thanks.

Is this an accurate image for thinking about the spin on a golf ball in flight? The horizontal axes tip like the wings on an airplane. When the ball is turning to the left, the horizontal axis on the left side of the ball is lower than the axis on the right. When the ball is turning to the right, the axis on the right side of the ball is lower than the axis on the left.

Here is one summary that I found (AA means angle of attack and HSP means horizontal swing plane as in "does the swing plane angle to the right/positive or to the left/negative at impact): A rule of thumb calculation [for hitting a straight shot]: When hitting down with a negative AA (iron shots or shots on the ground) you need to shift the HSP to the left by approximately ½ the amount of the AA. When hitting up with a positive AA (tee shots) you need to shift the HSP to the right by approximately the same amount as the AA. http://www.planetruthgolf.com/Forums...c/Default.aspx So, for a straight shot, it sounds like with irons the club path should start a little left of target because you hit down on the ball with an iron. With a driver, the club path should start a little right of the target because you hit up on the ball that is teed up. Is this correct?

Is there a simple one or two sentence summary of the D-plane?

I had been starting my drives either straight or with a little pull and then they would fade right. Using the "new" ball flight laws, I made a conscious effort to swing more from the inside on my downswing and I started to hit draws and drove the ball longer than I usually do on my home course. I tend to hit my irons straight or with a draw. When I tried the same "fix" with my irons, the ball started down the target line and then hooked badly. So I applied the ball flight laws when teeing off and ignored them when I hit irons. Overall, I hit the ball pretty well. I think the problem is that I don't understand the "D-plane." The "new" ball flight laws can be summed up pretty simply: "The ball mostly starts on the angle of the clubface and curves away from the direction of the club path." But I can't figure out a quick way to sum up the D-plane. I know the D-plane articles say to swing the driver to the right of the target line for a straight shot and the irons to the left of the target line for a straight shot. But I don't understand John Graham's videos explaining the concept. Thanks.

Can you explain why? Thanks.

Since the "new" ball flight laws that say clubface angle determines 85% of the ball's initial direction and since the ball stays on the ground during a putt, isn't a square putterface at impact the most important thing for hitting a straight putt? According to the new ball flight laws, straight-back-straight-through versus an arc path don't really matter as long as the putterface returns to square impact, right? If that is correct, then on short putts I'm going to focus on square impact alone.

Sorry. When looking at my takeaway from the down-the-line view, he wants my left arm to stay close to my body so it is closer to parallel with my torso instead of having my left arm hang straight down and farther away from my body. I went back to the Stack and Tilt book last night and read about what they recommend for hitting a draw. Here it is: face open, ball back, weight forward. I'm going to give it a try tomorrow at the range before my Sunday round. I wish there was a Stack and Tilt instructor in the Chicagoland area.

6-iron. You mean the club is too vertical at address, right? I see that too. The instructor wants me to hinge my wrists up and make my hands pass over my back foot during the takeaway. The idea is to get my backswing flatter at the top while not sucking the club too far to the inside on the takeaway, which he says keeps me from turing my shoulders more. I know in the Stack and Tilt book, one of the pros (Axley?) is quoted saying that he tries to make his hands pass over his right foot. Going back, the instructor doesn't want my left arm vertical to the ground in the down the line view; he wants it closer to my body. When I put a pen on the shaft at address from down the line and then look at the takeaway, the club appears to stay on plane. But I could be missing something for sure. Otherwise, I would be hitting it better. I'm bummed to see that I'm leaning back. I am trying to slide my left hip over the outside of my left foot - another Stack and Tilt idea. I'm not trying to use my hands or wrists at all during the downswing. How do I get the hip slide right? Iacas, what do you see? Thanks.

No comments or criticisms? When I do hit driver well, it's a pull-fade. When I hit driver badly, it's a push-slice. Not fun.

http://s746.photobucket.com/albums/xx107/Carland/ This is my most recent video from GolfTec. I am working on hinging my wrists up in the takeaway to keep the clubhead on the shaft plane during the takeaway, turning my shoulders more and sliding my left hip over the outside of my left foot before impact. I go from hitting it pretty well to feeling like I can't get my hands through at impact, resulting in blocks to the right. I am interested to hear any criticisms. Thanks. My handicap is now 7.9 and is going to get higher. My last four scores are 77, 88, 88 and 89.

Here's a link to a new Golf Magazine article with a more conventional critique and fix of Tiger's swing: too outside on the takeaway; too flat at the top and too steep at impact: http://www.golf.com/golf/gallery/art...5892-1,00.html

Golf Magazine's latest edition diagnoses Tiger's driver swing problems. Basically, he takes it too far to the outside on the takeaway. He's too flat at the top and laid off with a bowed left wrist. I suppose if you follow AJ Bonar's logic, Tiger's not likely to be laid off if he cups his wrist. Just joking. I tried Bonar's tip about 3 years ago. It's a complete disaster. I could never be consistent trying to close the clubface through impact. But it was a great tip for hitting hooks.

This is a great thread. I focused on hip slide tonight at the range and hit the ball better than I have all spring. I hope it translates to the course this weekend. When the hips slide aggressively enough forward, it feels like the arms fall right into place. Also, when I look at the videos that have been posted of a good hip slide, the front hip moves forward the full width of the thigh of the front leg from the address position. That's a pretty big move forward.

Here's one teaching pro's take on Tiger's problem with Haney's method: http://www.golf.com/golf/instruction...982572,00.html

Yeah, I don't get the difference in the hip shift you recommend for a steep backswing versus a flat backswing. Hogan was flat, but didn't he have an aggressive weight shift before he rotated his hips?

If your club is on plane going back and on plane at the top, why would the speed of the hip turn change the plane of the golf club on the downswing? If you're on plane going back, shouldn't it be easier to stay on plane coming through no matter what the speed of your hip turn? Here's why I ask. The guys with the steep backswings like Fred Couples, Colin Montgomery, even Jim Furyk seem to swing more fluidly than someone with a flat backswing like Ben Hogan who looked like he moved his hips pretty quickly in the downswing. So I figured that a guy with a steep backswing needed more time in the transition to get back on plane coming down whereas a guy with a flatter backswing who is already on plane can be quicker in the downswing because he doesn't need to make any adjustments to get the club back on plane. I'm just a 7-handicap so I'm no expert. I'm just asking because I'd like to understand the concept better. Here are videos of Couples and Hogan:

I am only guessing, but Harmon seems more concerned with "keeping the club in front of you" and Haney is more about "staying on or parallel to the club shaft angle at address." Here is a video of Tiger from 2000. He's is definitely more upright at the top of the backswing than he is today:

I see what you're saying about Tiger's footwork because his backswing looks on plane. Put a pen on the backswing at address. Both Tiger and O'Meara make the clubhead go up the shaft plane on the takeaway and halfway back the clubhead covers their hands like it's supposed to. Assume that's true then look at both downswings. Why does Tiger dip and O'Meara does not on the downswing?

Sorry to bring this back up but, when I look at O'Meara's swing, I don't see the loop that Tiger's swing gets criticized for. Why does Tiger have the loop to the outside going back under Haney when O'Meara didn't? Here are videos of both of them down the line. Tiger's video is from this year's Masters. It doesn't actually look like much of a loop going back, but he definitely dips down on the downswing. O'Meara Tiger

Did Tiger ever fully accept what Haney taught? Look at Tiger's swing v. Mark O'Meara's. O'Meara keeps his club parallel to or on the original club shaft plane at address, which is what Haney teaches. O'Meara's wrists set pretty early and he's relatively flat at the top, but not as flat as a Jim Hardy one-plane swinger. O'Meara does not take the club way to the outside and then re-route it flat like people were criticizing Tiger for doing. I wonder if Tiger ever fully followed Haney's advice. Tiger doesn't start his wrist set early like Haney suggests. I've read two of Haney's books. He never says to take the club to the outside going back and re-route it flat at the top. Instead, Haney says that your hands come to the inside on the takeaway at the same time you hinge your wrists up. In and up in equal measures. It doesn't look like Tiger ever did that.

eatmybologna: What are the "four magic moves" that Dante recommends? The book reviews on Amazon do not described what Dante teaches other than noting he recommends an unusual movement with the wrists.