KelvinPDX

That’s cool... just on a hair trigger nowadays. Probably shouldn’t be online.

That’s super cool. I was just commenting on the characterization of the cartoon. Seemed like a funny way of looking at it considering the goal, but I guess that’s my burden. and yes all of this is a conversation, one that has helped me in the process. Just making fun of something that isn’t there isn’t comfortable absorbing. Especially in these times.

So funny. It’s exactly the opposite of what I’m doing right now. That is focusing on the wrist movement like a laser. Everyone else is trying to expand it out to their own issue. Strange how this process works here.

Oh well if anyone’s interested in the issue of the OP. This actually wasn’t about grip. The grip used in the face on example I was showing are neutral to strong. It looks weak because the face is set up closed. The thing I’m looking for is to eliminate that transition from cupped at address to flat (or bowed) during the backswing. I found if I set my wrist up flat at address I’m more conscious of exactly how the club face is oriented because I’m not moving though all those different positions. I guess the OP question really was... why do that since it introduces another layer of complexity into the swing which seems, to me, unnecessary.

You hit it on the head there Bill. That’s kinda what I do. Bit of an entertainment for me. 🤓 Probably shouldn’t air it in public too much but I thought I’d try how the process would be if I did. It’s actually been helpful for me but not sure how entertaining it is for the folks in Internetland. 🙂 btw in the end I think all of these steps are just that. Steps to a more perfect swing. It’ll never be perfect just better... ... and I think I’ll be settling on a face forward body position, with my wrist set flat, so my arm will be in a straight line with the club at address... for now 😉. and BTW Bill, I totally understand that I’m talking about a detail in a very complex system. Thanks man.

This is my point, if I setup classically, with my left wrist cupped the grip is perfectly neutral or even a bit strong. 🤓 The issue is the elimination of that transition from cupped to flat in the backswing.

Yeah don’t think I’m addressing plane issues here but it’s probably connected. What I’m finding through swing iterations in the garage is that the key to what I’m trying to do is to maintain the flex/bow angle (if the hand were flat on a table the movement in the wrist up and down or off and on the table) and the pronation/ supination (rotation of the hand in the axis of the forearm) in my wrist, with only the side to side movement (ulner and radial deviation) being variable as I go through the swing. This is done in order for me to not cup my wrist at address then having to transition at some point to the proper wrist orientation (flat or bowed ala DJ). It’s just another variable that I’m trying to eliminate and it seems like low hanging fruit. Following the desire for this wrist position it kinda works itself back into the body setup because when you have your wrist flat at address it starts asking the body to position itself into the position Shown below If I use the same flat wrist position with a traditional face forward address the club face is severely closed resulting in an uncomfortable relationship between that position and where the ball actually needs to go. It just seems to me the cupped wrist requirement when addressing the ball with hips square is only because the traditional face forward address is the way it’s been done but that feels like it’s the tail wagging the dog. Anyway I’ll be pursuing this. It’s been pretty fruitful at first blush. and to clarify... everything I do after this setup is a classic, or as close as I can get to it, golf swing. Just trying to eliminate that wrist movement after address. So I read through this thread and what is so cool is that I started this thread thinking this was a body position issue but as the conversation developed and I took the pieces of thoughts out to the garage for analysis, what I discovered is it’s the wrist orientation that allowed for more consistency. The body position was just the doorway to get there. So interesting...

Absolutely! It’s just that’s what I’m looking at at the moment 😌. I’m just searching for that ever elusive consistency and it seems like this may be a viable path.

And as a conclusion I was hitting more balls in my garage with this in my head and it seems the ultimate reason for this type of setup is to take Dustin Johnson’s method of minimizing the movement in your wrist to only one axis (take away the cupped/bowed to flex movement in as much of the swing as possible) or finding the bio mechanical limit of your wrist joint and sticking with it for as much of the swing as you can deal with. This was fun. Thanks.

Btw, putting those photos on the OP would probably be helpful to clarify my woefully inadequate prose.

Wow that’s perfect thanks. He’s basically doing what I’m describing. It’s not the same but it’s closer than addressing the ball face forward. Is that photo of the end of the pump or a setup position? I’m going to have to find more stuff on his swing. My difference is I wouldn’t pump but would go from a static position. I’m wondering if he pumps so he can get more dynamic action into the backswing. This is perfect thanks so much. This site is awesome.

Looking at the second picture, my wrist is probably pronated (slightly cupped) too much and should be at least straight. But the thing this tries to avoid is having the wrist ever being cupped (except in reality my wrist gets bowed at impact with early release, I’m working on this with the split grip drill, and despite the flip I’m getting relatively consistent results from this position). At take away, wrist is straight or slightly flexed. This is part of what I was wondering... is the transition out of the cupped wrist to the flexed/bowed wrist part of the power equation?

I’m totally failing on the description so here’s some photos first is my conventional setup at address. Next is the setup I’m wondering about. I was rooting around the web and there’s a system called DST advocating a similar approach.

In answer to “how do you make the backswing”... one does it similar to the conventional swing except where you start. I suppose there is the 45 or so extra degrees the hips need to rotate in the backswing since the hips are set up around 45* open. But this wouldn’t affect timing on the downswing. Only the backswing timing and it’s extremely minimal at that. Maybe it’s just that bigger backswing requirement that makes it less efficient. I find it strange that we have to twist our wrists and arm position to get into the traditional address position. Seems like a formal position and not bio mechanically developed.

I guess, here on TST, the proper answer to any question like this (alternate swing approaches) is that if it embodies the five keys and doesn’t screw the keys up somehow by putting you in a bad position, and it works, it’ll be fine. I’ll read up more on those keys and see if what I’m talking about fits or not. ps Venetos advocates a preset open feet position. And a still lower body. I’m not talking about that. Just put yourself in (or close to) the position you happen to be when you actually hit the ball and start from there instead of all square to the ball. Video would probably help. Might try but that pretty heady stuff for my first post.