j_moo

Michelle is the exception. That's why she was insistent on competing with the men. Her never making a PGA cut tells me most of the LPGA would struggle from the back tees.

Played with a few women who can't hit the ball more than 100 yards, but they were fast. Hit, cart, hit, no practice swing no pre shot routine, makes me nervous just watching them. Then again, they don't worry about club, wind, lie, etc., or even read the green. We probably play a par 4 in about the same amount of time but I would take more time per shot. So handicap doesn't really indicate how fast you play, other than perhaps how often you have to look for your ball. I also believe much of slow play is due to courses overbooking tee time. I've never been on a well space course that's slow.

which brings the course down to about 6400...

We played the round in 4 hours. Any faster we'd be skipping shots. Why, especially when the group behind was not waiting? When the group ahead gets to par 5s in two and you have 100 players struggling to get there on par4s, it's difficult to catch up. Again, the 1-2 shot gap is not because we were slow. It's because how the course was setup, par5 after a par3. We played the same pace as the group ahead.

Played a round this weekend with a couple of near scratch players from the tip at just over 7100. Would never do it myself, but one guy knows me and thought I can handle it. Ended up shooting one of the lowest round in the group. Probably wouldn't want to do it all the time but moving back does challenge you to get better. I remember when I first move from the white to the blue tees. I thought it was crazy. But can't imagine myself playing from the white anymore.

Just curious, which tee did you play from? The average LPGA course is about 6400. Wondering if they would do just as well from 6800.

Played Redhawk in Temecula from the tips with some near scratch players. We were the 2nd group out behind a 3some and waited a little on a few holes. We could have finished maybe 5 minutes faster but played the round in 4 hours riding. We gave short putts and no one played slow. Not sure how you 4somes play any faster than that without rushing.

Agree about waiting and the group behind. So if the group ahead don't waive up on a par 3, usually don't try to rush to make up the shot. If we play at the same pace, won't have to wait again on the next par 3 or on par 5s trying to get on in 2. Unfortunately here in southern CA, the courses are way overbooked on the weekends everywhere. Possible to play year round, but 5+ hrs is the norm. Generally, the marshals are laid-back, but there are always exceptions I guess.

Did management do anything concrete to make up for your inconvenience? They appeased you and you were happy with how they handled it. Fine. But there's no guarantee the marshal is not still there or at another course yelling at people.

There is a difference between gap and pace. There can be no gap and no waiting if all groups play at the same pace, which rarely, if ever, happens. What usually happens is the course is overbooked so that everyone is playing at the pace of slowest group in front of them at the time, which can be multiple groups. Kind of like how traffic jams happen without an accident, too many cars stepping on the breaks. Slow play is not always due to players being slow, most of the time, it's courses being overbooked. If the course is playing at a 5 hour pace, it doesn't matter what gap is between two groups as long as they all play at the same pace. It is often interpreted that the group with the gap in front is playing at a slower pace. We played in 4 hours and the group behind didn't wait. We didn't slow anyone down. We could have closed the gap but the overall pace of the course would still be 4 hours. Nobody likes to be stuck behind the slow truck in traffic. However, even if you pass the truck, you're still stuck in traffic.

Every group plays at different paces at different times during the round and therefore there are different gaps between groups. Unless the gap in front of your group is more than 1 hole or continously getting larger, and the group behind is waiting on every shot, I'd say you are probably playing to the pace you should. Otherwise, you should probably let them play thru. I just don't see the benefit of rushing to be right behind the group ahead only to have to wait on every shot. If the course is playing a 5 hr round because of overbooking, why pretend it's not?

I was watching for the group behind like a hawk on every shot, thinking they were about to bear down on us and we had to let them thru, which really distracted me and ruined my round. They waited for us twice after the 4th hole, once on a par 3 for a couple of us to putt out and a par 5, they were waiting to get on in two. Not really reasons to let them thru and both were on the back nine. Not in the front where the marshal was working. It really bothered me that not only did the marshal not understand why we only appeared to be behind, he didn't even see the group behind were playing at the same pace. Not to belabor the point but, 4 hours on a Saturday! Even if they wait on every shot, can they really complain anyone was slow? Besides, isn't that the most any golfer can realistically want from a weekend round ~4 hrs, no waiting, and no one pushing from behind? Like someone mentioned before, we're paying customers playing a recreational game. If I was treated like that at a restaurant, the manager would have apologized and comped us some drinks. The GM at Mile Square, however, doesn't give a flea on a dead horse's back about its patrons. Not suggesting what anyone should or should not do, but be warned if you are thinking about going there. It's a shame that it's come to this, but bext time anyting happens on a course anywhere, I'll be calling the clubhouse right away. If courses are not monitoring their employees, we patrons can only complain to let it be knowd.

Wondering if there is anyone in the area interested in playing together on the weekends regularly? Also would like to know which courses you would like to be in the rotation?

I think even Mary Lou is bored.