logman

Bit harsh bomberman........But I think there's a big lesson here to be learnt about the "prettyness" of a swing and the efficiency of it.

Yes, I constantly get pulled up for making making flippant or coloquial comments. or hairsplitting. But anyway back to the topic. I was interested in the shape of the golf swing. So what I observe in good golfers useing lots of lag in their swings is the clubhead coming down very vertically then flattening out to -4 degrees or similar into the ball and then into a divot. What I want to know is, is the relatively flat path of the clubhead at the bottom of the swing the result of the big forward weight shift that's currently taught. In other words if you swing the club without any forward movement, would the lowpoint area be shorter and more "pointed"( I can't think of another way to describe it)

OOPPS, I thought there was some magic in the divot. So If I "nip" the ball and my divot goes for 3 or 4 inches after the ball thats ok? Apologies folks didn't mean to irritate. Hey Erik, maybe you should change my description from "willfully ignorant" to plain "ignorant"

Sorry, isn't that what people are saying....that is, you hit the ball first then make a divot, Yeah? and the distance from where the ball was to the divot is more(4 inches) when the pros hit the ball. Thats right isn't it?

Thanks, David in Florida. It was a day out!

Had a good day yesterday, 71, 1 over at Ararat golf club. Pretty pleased with it even though I was more that a little streaky at times. But it was really encouraging me and the swing method.. Most of the round I was 2 under but I fell to bits dropping 3 shots on the last 3 holes. Infuriating!! Swing wise I'm still battling to keep my tempo under control. It gets too fast and I start falling back. I guess it's one of the downsides to this swing. It's definitely not a swingers swing, it's punchy and powerful but it's not a pendulum type action. Anyway summers coming to an end and I'd love to shoot a par round........Yeah, I know that's going to come back and bite me on the arse

So it occurred to me reading another thread about amateurs divots being 2 inches ahead of the ball and some pros making divots 4 inches ahead of the ball. How do they do that? given that most good players have a lot of lag in their swings, then as the front arm is horizontal on the downswing the club is pointing to the sky....I'm not explaining this very well. but anyway. so as the front arm is pulled down the clubhead is moving very vertically. OK, so given that the pro golfer takes a divot 3 or 4 inches after the ball, then that means the AoA has become very flat. Yeah? I mean if the golfer hits the ball first then makes a divot 1 inch in front of the ball then thats gotta be a steeper AoA that the guy who makes a divot 4 inches after. So ......I guess as the Lag in the swing is starting to release, I don't know, say about 18 inches before contact then the AoA is shallowing. So...given that there is a low point in all swings and some players have very "short" low point......I mean they come down steep then they go up steep. Then how are the guys that take the 4 inch divot after the ball doing it.? How are they flattening out their low point so that they "middle" the ball then make a divot 4 inches later. The videos I've seen of guys demonstrating the 4 inch after divot seem to have a very big forward drive. Is that how they do it?

Well not today but yesterday. Shot 71. 1 over par at chalambar course(5526Meters par 70) at Ararat Victoria. If I had to characterize the round it would be a combination of solid putting, solid chipping(well it was all pretty solid) and some of the most tin arsed golf you've ever seen. Example 1: a chip in from 30 meters to save par on 12.....Haha example 2: a drive with the long driver that smashed though one line of fairway trees on to the next fairway. A chip over the trees and a long 5 iron to within 6 feet for a birdie......I'm buying a lottery ticket after that crap!! example 3: a COMPLETE misread of a green followed by the WORST execution of a putt ever combining to sink a 20 footer......NICE! Most annoying though was I'd never parred a course using the LPG swing and I managed to dupe myself into thinking that the save I'd made on number thirteen(example 2) was a par when on their card and website it says it's a par 5. Anyway it really ****ed me up and I proceeded to bogie the last 3 to finish over. $%%#@@@@CHNFT^&%$!!!!!

I try to keep my hands in front, with the bent arm swing lag comes from the elbow. And If I don't get my hands in front the I've probably "flipped"...... big deal I reckon.....so the ball goes higher.....with more spin. Win,Win! My point is that "flipping" isn't the destroyer of golf swings. If you build lag in your swing that power doesn't just disappear 2 inches later.

No it doesn't. example 1: So you swing your club and lets say you have good lag coming into contact.....your hands are forward, your shaft angle is forward everything is hunky dory. Whack you hit the ball.....all good! Example 2: so you swing the club and lets say you have good lag coming into contact......your hands are forward, your shaft angle is forward, everything is hunky dory......however instead of hitting the ball in a position where it was you've moved it 2 inches forward and you've "flipped". OMG !!! do you reckon that you've lost all the power because the clubs gone past your hands? What's going to happen to the ball? its going to go a bit higher(good) with More spin(good).

Check out a video by Martin Ayres. where he does a drill like this. I'll try to describe it accurately. So he sets up as per normal but puts his club head about 2 feet ahead of the ball(towards the target). Then he goes into his back swing.....dragging the clubhead across the mat like its made of lead and weighs 10 kilos. He drags the club on the inside of the ball and up into his full top of backswing posi. then he whacks it. When I was playing with a straight arm I used to practice this drill and it worked beautifully. I think what it does is set a lag into the swing right from the start of the swing .....not from half way. It seemed to me that setting the lag from the start meant that it was easier to maintain for the whole swing. Give it a go.

By boogie man I mean every few years there's a new "if you do/don't do..........(insert current boogie man here) then you can't hit the ball properly". "compression" is just hitting the ball. I can't see how if you hit the ball with your hands in front of the ball then that's "compression" but as soon as the club head goes 1 inch past the hands, then OMG.......that's disaster!!. If you swing a club at 100 mph with my hands 1 inch infront of the clubhead, does the club then suddenly slow down 2 inches later if the clbhead goes past my hands?? Just on distance, Hasn't trackman showed us that generally, for amateur golfers with slower swing speeds that height in our shots is our friend as far as distance goes? Yes I know I'm mixing a couple of topics here but doesn't trackman tell us that spin is produced by club speed and more club angle not hitting down and de-lofting

Flipping......? So the clubhead gets slightly forward of the hands at impact. Does the club being ahead of the hands rule out a slight downward AOA??? And anyway, so if the clubhead is 1 inch behind the hands everything is hunky dory, but then if the clubhead is a millimeter ahead of the hands then somehow the swing is a "flip" and a poor strike. Flipping is the new boogie man of golf teaching.

That's awesome!!

No Mordan, I don't play tournaments and I don't carry a card. I use golfshot....to keep score and stats. I keep a score to par.....usually Plus( ), but sometimes under. Just as a guide, My aim is to beat 80 every time I play, but I prefer to play birdie golf rather than "safe golf".......life's too short! Since I've been using this new swing my numbers went to the crappers, but over the last few months I've been getting back to where I think I should be. My most enjoyable rounds are the ones where I just hit the ball well. Even if I score 85 I'd prefer those rounds where I hit the ball really solid but putted like a twat.....to those rounds where I hit the ball like a turd and putted well and walked off with a 79. I hate rounds where I hit it badly and chip and putt well. Hitting the ball is what is like. Anyway I'm playing tmoz so I'll let you know how it went.

Again, another reason not to emulate the pros. For most golfers the idea of hitting a ball 30 yards in the air with a 3 iron is almost impossible. most guys just don't have the swing speed to get that height on the ball......just look at the carry numbers of the pros. There's about 10 yards between 3 iron, 4 iron, 5 iron etc. Most amateur golfers would have smaller and smaller distance gaps as their clubs flattened in loft. So most guys 3 irons would carry about the same distance as their 5 irons......hence the popularity of the hybrids. Basically the hybrids fly higher and therefore restore the distance gaps in the longer clubs back to the 10 yards or so that seems advantageous. 30 yards of shot height with a hybrid is possible for the amateur but wouldn't more height be better? Again, amateur golfers look at numbers on a chart about the height the pros hit the ball and think, "30 yards is the height I SHOULD be hitting the ball" Also, have a look at the pitching wedge end of the bag. Again 30 yards in height. If we all think its advantageous to hit down on the ball, with hands forward, weight forward etc,etc, then effectively we're de-lofting the club. Again the pros are doing this because they can. I mean, when pro golfers hit a pitching wedge through to a 7 iron they're hitting the ball with extreme back spin......ie, with enough backspin to stop the ball. If amateur golfers hit their PW to 7 irons at 30 yards in height they wouldn't ever be able to hold a green.....they(we) don't hit the ball hard enough or spin the ball enough to stop it. The result is the back bunker. Wouldn't the better tactic be to hit the ball high so the ball lands with a more vertical trajectory........and stops on the green??. Advocating that amateur golfers should try to emulate the height that a pro hits the ball is IMHO just wrong headed. I mean the chart shows that the pros average swing speed for a 5 iron is 94 MPH. most amateurs swing their driver at that speed. Surely the height that any given player hits the ball should be mated to the player himself. Amateurs should look at those numbers in interest but they shouldn't look at them as some kind of prerequisite to playing proper golf. Rant over!

How much would that hurt though!!!! His face looked burnt!!!Haha I shouldn't laugh, but then again!!

Hey, that's not me that's my twin brother

Bloody cats supporters are everywhere!!!

Hi mate,good to see you're still around. Just on the HSS swing. I always thought how well the grip and no forearm rotation would go really well with LPG's bent front arm. I've never messed with mixing the 2 styles but the 2 seem to be very complimentary. I mean if you could imobilize the front wrist then you get rid of that hook that you can get with HSS. Plus you get the added benefit of the club face being "square" for a longer period in the HSS swing at the same time getting the power that lpg offers. I've never tried Kuykendalls E2E, For some reason I can't even visualize how it would go. I'm just a bit flummoxed by it. Also the Principle of the power in the arms ,hands shoulders. Yeah I reckon he's spot on. When I started LPG I reckon my 150 meter club went from a 7 iron to a 3 wood..... haha it was pathetic , I just couldn't understand how to make power. And even weirder is I still just lose it and my body wants to swap back to wrist bending and straight arming. Anyway the power has returned and my 150 meter club is now my eight iron. Anyway, good to have another voice on the forum

That's gold Mordan. Awesome bit of thinking.

Yeah. haha, though it's all got a bit sanitized over the last few years. Games in the 1970,80's between traditional rivals often turned into real blood baths. It was a wonder no one got seriously injured or killed in those years. footy's changed a lot. The players are more highly skilled than those of previous decades but.......I miss the old days of "a bit of Biffo".

Yes, I tried the straight front arm and that works equally well. The only reason I prefer to bend the front arm is that it's consistent with my main swing and it's just comfortable. The big trick though IMHO is to eliminate wrist movement. So no cocking, no nuthin. I mean your not trying to get power your just trying to present a solid, braced, rigid structure to the ball, not a wristy, flexible, spaghetti arm(if you know what I mean).

No worries Dave67az. Yeah I was pretty happy with the shots. 2 gimme's 1, 3 footer,1 at about 8 feet, and 2 that rolled past. But anyway that's just me. Give it a go and see how you go.

Hey, how about a little chipping comp? I haven't thought this out at all or maybe it already been done but anyway here's what I think. Any time during your round or after, during practice or whenever, just throw down 5 balls, pace out 30 meters(40,50 whatever) and chip. Add up the total distance from to hole and send it in to TST. Video or no video????(i said I hadn't thought about it much) winner plays on.......so there's always a reigning champ. Of course they'd have to be some rules(preferred liies)etcetc could be great fun to have a chip off against Stretch in South Africa or Mordan in Melbourne or Dave in Florida What do you all think???