Patrick57

I'm with Adam, I must be watching golfers who are an exception to the rule. If a player has a natural tendency to swing out to in, then surely his hands would protect this flight by keepng the clubface open at impact. Out to in with a closed clubface would create a quick hook, you wouldn't want to be hitting too many of them. The opposite is true for the in to out path. It's simple logic or am I missing something here? I bet you are all refering to clubface relative to the target and not to path and thus it is actually open at impact.

I'm not looking to change the guy to stack and tilt, I just want to eliminate his reverse pivot and maintaining his forward tilt.

I have tried everything with this guy but I can't get him to maintain his spine angle during the swing. He has managed to return to his original tilt at impact but more often than not, he doesn't. Any suggestions?[URL=http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/286154/width/640/height/632][IMG]http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/286154/width/640/height/632[/IMG][/URL] His handicap is 10 but he often plays in the 90's. One round in ten, his timing is good and he shoots in the high 70's. :~(

Sorry Mike, I didn't watch the video. I always refer to clubface relevant to path, period. [quote name="mvmac" url="/t/59732/quick-ball-flight-law-question/36#post_734006"] Do you understand the more you roll the face the better chance you have of hitting a cut? [/quote] This one baffles me. Perhaps I need to watch your video. I could understand the relevance of this if the rolling was happening in the backswing.

Without confusing this issue. I aim 5° right of my target with my clubface 2° closed to that path (OBFL) what's wrong with this thinking. You call it 3° open to target and I call it 2° closed to path. New laws refer face to target and old refers face to path. Can we leave it at that? ;-)

So why complicate the directives?

I would love to read some of his comments on this stuff. ;-)

What's wrong with the simple instruction of attempting to hit the ball with the clubface closed to path, thus creating the right to left curve? Once this is mastered we can then work on flight path. I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate myself on my 400th post.

With the greatest respect, I have fully researched this subject and agree that there are slight differences in ball flights than I/we were led to believe. [quote name="Bullitt5339" url="/t/58950/my-swing-patrick57/36#post_730900"]Modern golf instruction has evolved greatly in the past 10 years and some people have trouble embracing the tools that are there nowadays. I have dealt with a few of my playing partners who are both over 60 years old and have been playing golf for over 40 years. They assumed what they had learned over the last 40 years was correct. [/quote] But is modern golf instruction really better. Are golfers improving? We can now see what's happening in super slow motion but does that enable us to play better or are we falling deeper into a crazy pit of swing control using conscious directives instead of subconscious feel. You may be plausibly eloquent with modern instruction but if the student doesn't get it, its all nonsense. I can turn a ball round a tree using old methodology and the modern instruction doesn't make this task any easier, au contraire, I find the opposite to be true. [quote name="Bullitt5339" url="/t/58950/my-swing-patrick57/36#post_730900"]One of them was easy to convert. A few high speed photos of what was really going on, and he was a convert. What he thought he was doing wasn't actually what was happening and his game improved a lot once he realized what was really going on. Another was a bit of a challenge, but he's slowly coming around. I just don't think his memory is good enough anymore to remember what we've been teaching him, so he forgets and goes back to what he's been told from years ago. He's also the guy that thinks on a good shot, he's actually pinching the ball between the ground and the club. [/quote] This is typical on this board. The old method guy is a plonker, probably has altsheimers and is so stupid he thinks the ball is being pinched against the turf. What he feels and what is actually happening doesn't reallly matter, I also love that pinching feeling and my eyes don't really see it anyway. I'm sure Nicklaus also thought this was happening and modern devices wouldn't have made him any better. BTW Luke Donald also gets this wrong/right!

When the course is quiet - e.g. bad weather - we play a reverse Texas Scramble (match play). 2 - 4 golfers per team, worst ball is taken, opposition decides which one. Double bogey average will win this game. 9 holes takes about 2 to 3 hours but its great fun.

I am of the opinion its an undiscussed acceptance that they change the ball for putting. [quote name="Dormie1360" url="/t/59529/different-balls-on-same-hole/18#post_730808"] Hi Patrick, This is a joke right......your just jerking our chains? [/quote] I could be wrong but I'm not trying to jerk anyone's chain. [quote name="luu5" url="/t/59529/different-balls-on-same-hole/18#post_730809"] Why would a pro risk his result with this action? They can still replace the ball if it is unfit to play, or after the hole. [/quote] We never get a close up where we see the putting line on the ball until the pros are on the green. I never see it until then, could be me! [quote name="tiger187126" url="/t/59529/different-balls-on-same-hole/18#post_730814"] all he has to do is show it to his playing partner and declare his intent to switch, correct? [/quote] Yes but they have an agreement and don't have to ask on every green. [quote name="luu5" url="/t/59529/different-balls-on-same-hole/18#post_730830"] And the ball has to be damaged, not just slightly marked. [/quote] With the perfectly cut greens they play on, a scuff is damage and a brand new ball would be more desirable. [quote name="iacas" url="/t/59529/different-balls-on-same-hole/18#post_730847"] Patrick, did you fall on your head recently? And it's urethane, not surlyn. [/quote] Same difference. They both feel and taste similar.

I believe the pros do change their ball on the green. They throw their ball to their caddy who cleans it with a golf towel and gives it back. I have heard that he has two balls in that towel and his fellow professional has no problem with this. With the soft surlyn balls these days they could claim damage to the cover after every full stroke. Its easier to avoid this unnecessary rule by ignoring this protocol. :~(

I'll just have to get a better camera and record a more convincing video. BTW According to the NBFL a clubface that is open to the target on an in to out path starts right of target and remains right. The video is unfortunately inconclusive as to the degree of swing path or face conditions at impact. To summarise... [COLOR=FF00AA]We're all guessing[/COLOR]

Shooting between 34 and 39 0n a par 36, suggests that more often than not, I shoot over par. If you think that the swing in the OP is that of a 30 handicapper then you're the one who hasn't got a clue/brain/eye for a solid swing. BTW my video proves that the ball started a few degrees right of target and ended up over 30 yards left at the end. Erik reckons the clubface wasn't closed to the target but at the same time he can't explain the resultant hook. Can you explain this anomaly?

I once played 18 holes in 40°C (105°F) with two ladies and my shorts were wet from my ass to my crotch with white dried in salt lines. I was proud of myself.

Good. Keep it up!

Ah ken ye ken!

Are you referring to the wrist cock instruction or the six skinner?

I once smoked a six skinner before giving a private lesson. I encouraged the student to try to hear his wrist cock during the backswing. SCARY! Never did it again.

Do they have different rules on the PGA tour? The pros have lines on their balls for putting but I never see these before they get onto the green.

We welcome IT geeks and muscle pumpers, especially those who can get off the mark quickly. Happy Olypics there in the capital.

Yeah, I'm kind of an ass hole. They are right to treat me the way they do, because I've lied and made a fool of myself - in order to irritate others - several times. [quote name="Limpinswinger" url="/t/58950/my-swing-patrick57/18#post_730570"] I'll stay out of it and just offer my 2 cents. The 3 pictograms look like 3 intentionally different swings. The first one looks best to me. You rotate nicely around your spine, clear your hips at contact, and keep your head close to directly over the ball. The third one is not bad, but, you don't clear your hips as well. In the second, you sway off of the ball in the backswing and never recover from there. [/quote] The first and third is with 9 iron and the middle one is with the driver. I think the difference between the two iron swings is that I have flipped the wrists at impact in the third and therefore this my hips don't clear properly. My left arm extension with the driver swing in the second sequence is pityful to say the least. I do however believe that I have set my spine angle more away from the target at address and don't really sway in the backswing phase. [quote name="Limpinswinger" url="/t/58950/my-swing-patrick57/18#post_730570"] IMO, unless you are guarding against re-aggrivating some kind previous hyperextention injury, it should be straight. [/quote] 10 years ago, I had a motorbike accident and tore my left shoulder rotator cuff which severely restricts my backswing. I can control my left arm extension better with shorter shafted clubs but the driver seems to get away from me. I can however still hit a nice 240 yard draw with the second swing sequence. [quote name="Limpinswinger" url="/t/58950/my-swing-patrick57/18#post_730570"] I suspect that you are guarding against hitting fat and end up hitting thin, as you say. In the video, it sounds like you hit slightly fat despite hitting an iron off of a tee. That was probably from swaying off of the ball in your backswing. [/quote] I often tee up on our driving range because of the very sandy lie and extremely short grass. The video is also based on extreme face angle conditions and shouldn't apply to any analysis. BTW, it's nice to receive some constructive feedback and for that I am very grateful.

[quote name="mdl" url="/t/58950/my-swing-patrick57/18#post_726660"] Ha. I missed the 9 holes bit! His high self-regard makes even less sense... [/quote] [quote name="B-Con" url="/t/58950/my-swing-patrick57/18#post_726313"]I don't doubt that swing could shoot a 74 on a par-60 executive course. Given a lot of tries.[/quote] [quote name="GaijinGolfer" url="/t/58950/my-swing-patrick57/18#post_726049"] Keep in mind though, thats a 74 for 9 holes. [/quote] I'm glad you all noticed the 74 for 9 holes bit. I can be an amusing guy sometimes. To clarify... My home course is a 9 hole, 3,400 par 36 and I usually shoot 34 to 39 depending on my putting. I often play the course with beginners and use only my 9 iron and average 45 shots this way. I have been teaching full time for 15 years and have yet to meet a better scorer than myself. I'm sure Rory, Tiger, Luke and Lee would whip my ass, but I haven't met or played against them. My student's appreciate my coaching abilities and admire my shot making talents. I think your comments are non-constructive and a little bitter. I like my swing and its very effective, P.S. [SIZE=4][SIZE=5][COLOR=FF00AA][COLOR=FF00AA][COLOR=FF00AA] ITS NICE TO BE NICE![/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/SIZE]

[quote name="Clambake" url="/t/58950/my-swing-patrick57#post_724571"] Best news I've heard all day. But why procrastinate until tomorrow? [/quote] I live in a big house with my three bitch slaves. I think you're right about procrastinating, my toenails are turning yellow and mouldy. Perhaps a shower will do the trick. Thanks for the advice. P.S. Will this sort out my swing problem too? :-D BTW, only one actual comment on fixing my swing and that wasn't very helpful! I have decided to change my name to Patrick57_the troll from Tirol

That's it! I will be handing in my resignation as of tomorrow. I think I will be persuing a career in sportf psychoöogy. At least you don't have to look the part for that. Any old bullshit seems to work, especially with Golfers. I think I should start with the 'inside out' stuff. :~(