Patrick57

Hi Jim, I'm originally fae Glesga. Goat a sare tae fae kickin a baw. Ah shuldney be kickin peoples baws ah ken. OK joking aside. I'm sure I played your golf course at sometime or another. I played many in the central belt. Best wishes from everyone here at TST. I tell everyone that scots start with handicap 18. Just say if asked that you are a sassenach! Awrabest Patrick

Welcome Tony, we'll try not to bore you too much! LOL Patrick

Yes I believe you are!!! ...and Thank Goodness!

Doesn't stop people wilting and tearing their hair out on the course. Don't pretend like its not an issue.

Sorry Charlie Brown? This is over my head.

OK maybe its the mat mixed with a tight grip. I agree that hard mats cause problems but usually more to the joints: wrists, shoulders and elbows. I always place my ball on a rubber tee popping out about 1/4" above the mat, this allows me to hit the mat lighter. The mat is like a hard pan lie and the tee is like the soft grass above the harder ground. I can get golfer's elbow when I stretch too much with my electric hedge clippers and I'm not hitting anything. The injury comes from a tight grip and outstretched arm. If you want to continue practising and playing - which you seem to enjoy - I suggest you try both of these remedies above. The curative exercises are good but they don't get rid of your problem. Try this... It is important that at first you ignore shot results with this drill. On the range take a few swings without the ball and before swinging, on a scale from 1 to 5 rate your grip firmness. Does it remain constant throughout the swing or is it tightening anywhere. When is it tightening? Can you get to a stage where you can carry out a practice swing without tightening throughout the movement. Attempt to achieve the softest grip you can without losing control - I rate mine at 0.5 on this scale, in other words much lighter than you could probably imagine. Now do the same awareness exercise hitting balls. Best of luck!

I think you are going round in circles. Gross skills are continually being used, so practice is on going. Fine skills like sowing, writing or tying shoelaces are no different. Like I said earlier, I don't think a violinist (fine motor) or a 100 metre sprinter (gross motor) can - at the same level of advancement - afford absence of practice. At a mastery level practice is imperative whether that skill is gross or fine. Just because you consider golf to be a very difficult skill to learn doesn't mean you can bend the standards for learning these skills to suit your argument.

It's normally a tight grip at impact, through the hitting area that causes this, on a scale from one to ten, try to get your grip down to 0.5. Many golfers have a soft grip at address but don't realise that they tighten considerably at impact.

I also think we should keep the deer out of this. An important question here is, Is golf a fine motor skill or gross or both? Do we need big muscle control for golf? Could this sport involve fine and gross motor skills? If so what's your point?

You didn't mention the specs of your driver. You problem may lie there.

I play a hybrid instead of longer irons and with the slim club head and low COG, getting under the ball's equator is the desired effect. Unless you want to play a lower flight, I would leave things well alone. You will get the most out of the club with a higher flight path.

Yes but most golfers play with some degree of fear

Natural movements - walking, standing up, sitting down, jumping, etc. Walking is a skill that requires numerous motor skills to achieve - involving balance, coordination, rythym, timing and more - that's the way we perform all natural movements. Athletes push boundaries and in effect sustain injuries. Its their choice and yours but I'll stick to natural tendencies for motor skills and perform them without sustaining injury. You however said your natural swing caused you pain because you weren't using the big muscles properly and I said it is unnatural to swing that way - e.g. OTT - no one swings an axe outside to in, not for long anyway, its damn sore. But golfers do it for a lifetime.

Fluid, restricted, comfortable, repeatable, effective and I enjoy it. What's your point!

Well I'm doing something wrong. I teach a swing that doesn't cause ailments. Strike me off. We can make almost any movement in more of a violent way but we can also adopt a fluid repeatable motion that is pleasing for our body and still attain a very good golf game. Its the golfers who are busting a gut to get it out to inhuman lengths that are experiencing ailments. I'll go for the more enjoyable one every time. That's if you don't mind.

Good point. Uncomfortable in a good way, its more a feeling of stretching. Stretching causes pain if you overdo it. I stretch to a point where I am causing no damage. I listen to my body and achieve good backswing coil/restriction.

Thank you, thank you. Simple answer. It wasn't your natural swing. When motor skills are naturally learned and performed they do not cause ailments. Fact. You're digging a bigger hole. You never had a natural swing and someone led you to a better path. Using big muscles is natural, golfers use OTT swings because they are in their heads. No one swings an axe that way it causes back stress. Someone showed you how to swing naturally but it felt alien to you because you had adopted an unnatural OTT swing that caused back pain. Be happy that you found it. But don't tell me that a natural swing causes pain. Doesn't wash with me.

Hi Logman, I think your post is right on topic. However a few paragraph breaks and a knowledge of the editor functions on this forum would have made your comments easier to read. His Bro's head is so full of ball forward, handle back, relax the armpits, don't roll the wrists, still head etc that it effects his natural tendency for good ball striking. Logman sees this and so do I everyday, day in day out. ...their natural games are suffering I get it Logman, you're describing what you see and feel. Again your feel for what you enjoy to do. These are also very essential points for good results. I agree. What a finishing sentence. I couldn't have summed up the theme of this thread any better. Its your body and if you don't feel comfortable with any part of the so called 'model swing' that is mainly being taught, someone better give you something that is centred on being comfortable and effective. I don't think you, or in truth, anyone wants to play the game with an alien and uncomfortable feeling. Give anyone a comfortable swing where they enjoy performing it and they'll definitely play a game that suits them and their performance will definitely reap the benefit.

I would love to play golf without fear and often I do. Fear of looking bad, blowing up, those hanging 3 foot putts, the trees, bunkers and the water hazards. The secret to playing fearless golf lies in heightening your awareness of the level of fear you feel on the run up to - pre-shot routine - and during each swing. I start by carrying out the following exercise on the range. Using a scale from 1-5 for measuring fear levels, with 1 being no fear and 5 being excessive. I usually feel some fear and anticipation at address just before swinging, at about level 3. I then step away and re-address the ball and the number drops to 2, and then again and eventually it drops to 1. I then start my swing and halfway through the back swing again fear. I go through the same procedure until I also get this to level 1. I still haven't hit a ball yet. Some minutes later I have managed to control my fear factor, using this simple number system, in such a way that I am now on the range hitting balls with no fear or anticipation of any kind. It's a wonderful feeling of freedom. I am now ready to go onto the course and, standing on the first tee, its a little different and the levels go up. I persist with giving my numbers and recognising when these fear factors present themselves. A few holes later, just like I managed on the range, the fear disappears. Ten rounds later, a few tournament wins and some of the best golf of my life, I no longer need to work on this as it has become implanted or aged. I have managed to take it out of my game or at least reached levels that are almost zero. I refresh this drill occasionally when I recognise that I am no longer playing in the state of freedom I had attained. This procedure takes less and less time the more experienced I become in adopting this routine. I hear many sportsmen insisting that we need a certain amount of fear to improve our concentration which in turn leads to a better performance. "Oh, you really think so, do you?" Fear is perhaps helpful if you have to run across a battlefield or a dangerous animal is chasing you, but for an accurate approach to a green or a tricky putt, I'll take fearless every time. I prefer fearless golf and the wonderful freedom that it brings.

This will probably make more sense than the earlier posts I have made... Ich möchte Ihnen die extraordinary golf Trainingmethode vorstellen. Sie sollten wissen, dass es zwei Methoden gibt Golf zu unterrichten. Die „Herkömmliche“ ist meiner Meinung nach für viele Golfer wenig Erfolg versprechend, die „Extraordinary Golf” Trainingmethode dagegen überragend. Die „herkömmliche“ Lehrmethode ist weit verbreitet und schließt endlosen Unterricht mit nur wenigen Verbesserungen ein. Lesen Sie das Die überragende Lehrmethode ist viel einfacher zu verstehen und sobald verinnerlicht, nicht mehr zu vergessen. Alle Menschen haben als Ergebnis der Millionen Jahre Evolution ein erstaunliches und hoch entwickeltes Lernsystem. Menschen sind sicher schlauer geworden! I want you to imagine extraordinary golf training method . You should know that there are two methods to teach golf . The "Traditional " is in my opinion for many golfers unlikely to be successful , the " Extraordinary Golf " training method, however, outstanding. The " traditional " method of teaching is widespread and includes endless lessons with a few improvements . Read the The superior teaching method is much easier to understand and once internalized , can no longer be forgotten. All human beings have as a result of millions of years of evolution a remarkable and highly developed educational system . People have become smarter safe !

Yeah but where's the ball?

Oh splash the bloomin' thing out!

Can't be answered. Bed Time. Good night! You may not need to worry about the answer!

2" forward of where? Handle where? Armpit pressure where?