Fearlessgolfer

Thanks for posting the videos Mike. I like the Gary McCord video the best for the information, although all of the video is old and poor in quality one can grasp the essence of his information. What is strange is that McCord talks about pivot/body to hit the ball, yet many of the Mac influenced instructors talks about swinging the arms including Bender. Back in mid 90's to mid 2000's, I took many lessons from Mike Bender and used to teach Mac's stuff using Jody Mudd swings. Most of the time he taught CF'ish swings with much emphesis on hands/arms and less/reactive on the body.(?)

Mike, a couples of things about Mac's swing on the video: 1. His stands got wider 2. Most of Mac's swings, he doesn't slide hips much but more rotational and his shoulders fully turned as always at the finish. And looking at P7.5 where arms soft but not fully extended tells me pivot lead the arms not vice versa. What's your thoughts?

I've read similar discussion resulting from SAM PuttLab info such as this. Thanks! I know an instructor who has SAM PuttLab and Edel who advocates a ball position further forward than just ahead of the bottom of the arc. I wonder..... Does anyone have more info on the data when the greens are slower than 10 on Stimp?

Golfjunky, Since coming off a year and half layoff, I've went to check out the latest and newest equipment, especially drivers at Golfsmith and Edwin Watts. According to their launch monitor, I have 101 & 106 mph. When asked the technician, they both told me it's "fairly" accurate compared to the Trackman. The end result though is that I ended up keeping my old TM Burner TP 10.5 since the carry and the total distance were about the same. The other day, I chatted with Bridgestone ball representative. And, based on that conversation, I guess I could use B330 series, but for now I will continue to use up all the balls I have which are; e6 and rest of the Pro V1, Sryxon, and Callaway Tour i's. I do admit that Pro V1's are softer in feel around the greens, but I'm almost certain that e6 won't hurt my wedge game, especially here locally in Tampa Bay Florida. One of the reasons I've used Pro V1's past Sunday, we were playing at the Reunion resort in Orlando where the greens run 10 ~ 12 most of the time, plus I had two dozen of them. :)

Yup, me too when playing. I use "look and shoot" once I go through my preliminaries. :)

I have incorporated Trackman data into my golf playing, which means that I will not fight to push draw, but rather understand the ball flight laws and D-Plane better which will aid to hit push draws and push fades in most of the irons and straight or even power fade the driver. I still need to work on #4 which is getting my arms down faster, especially my right arm to the delivery position aka P6/A6. Enhance my technique of using bounce more into chipping, pitching and bunker play. Practice using the Aimpoint technology even more. Instead of all H.I.T in my workouts, I am incorporating more balance and core exercises and learn more of TPI along with Tom House's speed drills. How to be more simple and precise in my speech/delivery to get the point across.

Understanding the new(?) ball flight law and trackman data on hitting down vs. hitting up pre/post impact has brought this to chew on. So, here I am wanting to discuss with you. As you know, with any club when hitting down, although it is different on the degrees +/-, ball goes out, away from the baseline, where as when hitting up, after the passing the low-point, the club/the putter is travelling in vs. out, although very minute. So, when we put the ball back, away from the optimum flat level hit with the putter, we'll push it right vs. when we put the ball forward, we'll hit up and pull left, if we were set up to hit our low point beneath our COG being the sternum. Now, when putting, the arc of the putt will have very short low point/flat spot. Although he doesn't Stan Utley says hit down a little vs. Dave Pelz says hit up. Do you see why so much confusion? P.S. A few years ago, a couple of teaching pro and myself went down to SE Florida to Dave Pelz Short Game School. Long story short, the instructor, after seeing my sweet spot after putting with clip to see if we are hitting the ball consistently, told me to keep putting the way I am which falls toward Ben Crenshaw-ish like stroke. Point is, it's not straight back and through nor hit up.

I partly agree that we should all use constant acceleration profile in our putting aka pendulum like stroke regardless whether we use shoulders, obliques and or hands/arms. However, when we putt short/medium down hill putts, most likely we take it back shorter and longer on the follower through vs. up hill putts are opposite when measured, imho. In addition, on longer putts when swung/putt on a pendulum like method, there are shorter length follow through compared to backswing length due to the nature of energy transfer into the ball. Where as on shorter putts, it might be more effective going same length follow through as backswing which forces you to accelerate bit more than pendulum like.

I have played golf over 25 years and have tried many different putting strokes. And from my personal experience and from observation, long putts should be more flowing, (armsy & wristy if needed be) and athletic and less mechanical vs. short putts should be shorter back and through with firmer wrists. For the long putts, I like Ben Crenshaw, Tiger Woods, Phil Mickelson, Brad Faxon, and as Stan Utley teaches; open to close and an arc. For the short putts, I like Steve Stricker, Snedecker, Lucas Glover as Dave Stockton and/or Dave Pelz teaches. Please share your thoughts. Thanks.

I've hit 13 out of 14 fairways during my play yesterday. During the play, I've hit e6 a couple of times after hitting the Pro V1, which is the ball I have played the most in the past several years. Over the holidays, a friend caught a sale of Pro V1 where I ended up getting two dozen, so I have been playing the Pro V1 lately. All being equal, e6 were about 10 - 15 yards longer off the tee, about same distances off the irons, and bit less spin than V1, but if you are able to use height vs spin around the green, e6 balls are cost effective, durable and longer off the tee, IMHO.

Passive to me, means that when body is the leader and the hand and arm follows, where as active arm swing, body reacts to hand/arm motion. Dog waggles the tail image worked well for me when I was a body swingers/turner. When my shot pattern became bigger fade/slice, I ended up seeing McLean which agreed that too much body can be a very bad thing and gave me "L-to-L" drill. From there ended up seeing Bender who is also CF arm teacher. Transition wasn't fun at all.

Hi dmigolfer84, You have been playing golf for 7 years, read books, watched videos and spend a lots of time at the range, yet still at mid 90's to lower 100's? You also have the passion and competitive yet with two kids, you are probably limited with time to practice, no? It is obvious that you want to play better like all golfers. However, you are not quite sure if you should take a plunge and get a lesson or two? Well, why don't you look up TGM's basic motion, acquired motion and total motion in youtube section. Practice that. Then, work on to find the low point and hit the ball first and take a divot which you should be able to do if you understand and practiced basic TGM. Further go on to seek some 5SK videos; weight forward, steady head and diagonal sweet spot path. And if you like what you see and how it might improve your swing and game, try some online lessons via evolr. Maybe if you upload your swing, some of them might even give you some free tips. As I found out most of the pros are very gracious and willing to share their knowledge. Lastly, think about this. The information you get whether from Sean Foley, Leadbetter, Butch Harmon or any of the 5SK instructors, if you do not practice to incorporate it into your swing and game, it is futile to take any lessons. Wish you best of luck!

One can play great golf with body dominant and the arms passive, i.e. Paul Azinger of old when was being coached by John Redman, or arms active and body reactive/supportive, i.e. Davis Love and those coached by late Jim Flick and Bob Toski. In general observation, those body swings will have "relatively flat or flat-ish" swing with the bit of weight forward, where as arm swingers can and does have upright swings, as per Jim Hardy. I wonder what will be the answer of the long driver champions when it comes to their swings and their power and speed generators?

Thinking out loud: There are two static positions in a golf swing; the address and the finish. And, in between those two static positions, an action takes place which is usually less than 1.5 seconds. To ask what starts the downswing, which I have asked thousand times, btw, is flawed due to the nature of subjectivity of a golfer's pattern, IMHO. It might be better to find what a golfer lacks when compared to a better model, and to add a piece here and there to mold an efficient swing. P.S. No offense intended to the OP.

In an optimum swing where everything is harmonized, the swing motion looks effortless and smooth. I've taken many lessons from Bender, little over 2 hour driver, past 10+ years. He is definitely 'arm' focused teacher. IMHO, many of the amateur golfers could use more arm swing in their swing vs. body when seeking distance. In my recent good playing rounds, I've added a bit of arm swing to my S&T-ish; pattern.

Thanks for the Ping video. I've had many, more than I care to count, set of irons in the past 25 years of playing golf. Throughout the time, I have played three companies more than any other; Ping, Callaway and Mizuno. In my experience, Ping and Callaway have been the very best companies to deal with as far as getting customized, repair and warranting their product. On a side note about customer service and back up their product, Footjoy by far has been a great company.

I just spoke to the Ping tech yesterday as I am considering to change my lie of my current G15's. 4,5,6 irons stay at 1* flat, 7,8,9 to 2* flat, and all my wedges to 3* flat. It was easier changing the lie and loft when I had my Mizuno irons, but most of the local golfsmiths' doesn't want to take a chance with cast irons like Pings where it might break during the bending process. Plus, the whole bending process probably is different than at the Ping factory than at a local golfsmith. Most of the time, I/we never hit a full shot with our wedges, and most recently I've noticed my full wedge(s) shots are curving left.

I have been using this set-up with much success with a slight modification to 55/45 (L/R) hips bit forward. If push draw is what is required, I make a conscious attempt to swing out bit more yet still hit up and extend. I must give Erik due credit for several things here additional to great blog/forum:1. I recall him sharing his findings way back about moving the ball forward and hitting up for the maximum distance, which I use when calls for during my play. 2. His writings whether a comment or an explanation is usually pretty concise. 3. Great info about CP vs. CF. Question though, between CP fade with the ball forward as OP vs. CF draw, which is longer when measured?

I've had the exact experience when tested several drivers while I was seeking for that elusive latest & newest driver that COULD give me that extra yardage. So, I ended up keeping my TM Tour Burner 10.5* TP. However, I've hit a few of the newest hybrids from TM-Rocketballz which went higher and farther than my Nickent Genex 3DX ironwood.

The word "scam" replies a fraudulent deal. How so? Yet, I do understand where R Martin of OP is coming from and here is why. About 5 months ago, after being off for 1.5 years of playing golf, I went to see if I could use current technology to enhance my game. After about 30 minutes of testing various drivers from different companies on their launch monitor (not Trackman or Flight Scope), the tech/sales person shrug his shoulders and gave back my driver and said "there isn't much performance difference between yours and new clubs, so just keep it but change the grip." My driver is Tour Burner TP, 10.5* with Diamana 65 I think I got it in 2008. So, I thanked him and kept playing my driver, still. The point is that if you do not test and compare resulting difference in value, why should you change? Unless the golf companies have purposely mislead you into buying their product, then it would be a scam. Author of "Can't Buy My Love" Jill Kilbourne offers nothing less than a new understanding of a ubiquitous phenomenon in our culture. The average American is exposed to over 3,000 advertisements a day and watches three years' worth of television ads over the course of a lifetime. Kilbourne paints a gripping portrait of how this barrage of advertising drastically affects us. So, the golf industry and others know that the marketing plays huge role in our purchases and the companies use it to their advantage to produce profit. As far as comparing the golf clubs to Smart phones, computers and automobiles are not whole correct, IMHO. There exists rules and guidelines set by USGA and R&A; to limit and curtail the technology enhancements to serve the best interests in golf, no? Whereas electronic and auto technologies have different rules and governance hence it grows safer, faster and is BIG differences in each new model per se. So, this brings me back to the question I posted on FB Sandtrap: Has golf driver technology reached its limits?

Erik, great post! You now have acquired in depth information on several patterns and teach them. Since evolving with this new information, have your thoughts change about this OP?

"The jobs are never coming back to America," said Steve Jobs when asked by Obama about bringing jobs in China to US. Same can be said of Tiger going back to Harmon for many reasons, one being their super ego would clash. Tiger is an anal-yzer and tinkerer of his golf swing, and that is the chief reason for his changes; he wants better swing today to win more today than yesterday. His mind works differently than that of his critics other Tour players. If he had a choice, he would love to win by 10 or 15 strokes. As all of you know there are no perfect golf swings, but we all need one that works well. With Tiger's talent and work ethic, he has made changes under 3 distinct coaches and won. That should speak volumes. Lastly, IMHO, his putting hasn't been up to his old brilliant self along with short game.