tuffluck

no offense intended, but is a +1 good enough to be pro?

right, it would help your handicap number (read: lower) but hurt your chances in a competition. i was just talking about the handicap calculation only measuring just your best potential.

Adams Fast 12 LS i don't think it would work the same since you have a shorter shaft on the 3w. so if you just adjusted the loft to equal that of your driver, the shaft wouldn't be long enough to get the extra clubhead speed required to get the distance you would get on a similarly lofted driver shaft.

not sure how similar this is, but i play a low-spin head which has a lower COG and seemingly a smaller sweet spot. it isn't tour and it is still 460cc, but it doesn't play like many mainstream heads either. i can really tell if i mishit it, even if the mishit just barely misses the sweet spot. my previous nike was not like this at all, and pretty much any hit on the head felt good regardless of where the ball ended up. i mishit the adam's i have now frequently and it still flies well most of the time, i just lose about 15y when compared to a perfect hit (that feels awesome). usually people that play with me can't tell it was mishit at all, but i can feel it. my average mishit goes about the same with this driver as my longest with the nike, so i've been pleased with its performance. that being said i am not really more accurate with it than my nike--they are both about the same, it comes down to feel. my 3w is an i20, which is a small head, and that is my favorite and most consistent club in the bag. it would be cool to get the same club in a lower loft and call it my driver; i'm sure my scores would improve. though as others mentioned, you have to consider shaft length. i'm sure an 8.5 degree head on my i20 at the same size would not be swung nearly fast enough to get the loft i get on my 45.5" driver.

as i mentioned earlier, you also subtract the extra strokes on the worst holes, which is a huge advantage if you're a player like me who always has a blow-up hole.

that pretty much sums it up. if you think about the handicap index, it's really not measuring your average skill level per round at all, more so the potential you have for your best round. if you look at the math your handicap is actually taking your BEST 10 of 20 rounds, and then of those best 10 subtracts out your worst holes (within reason), and then after that discounts that average by 4%. so the math itself is really giving you a lot of opportunities to portray a best case scenario. and really the math could be anything. it could be net score times pi plus the derivative of 3x-y divided by a hot dog, and as long as everyone is using the same calculation (and hot dog), it will always level the playing field. as for scoring (scoring=total strokes to play an 18 hole course), i'm sure there are multiple examples of how it wouldn't be uncommon to see something such as a 12 handicap score the same as an 18 handicap in the same conditions (tees, course, etc.). you could be 70 years old, a scratch golfer, but only drive 200y. you're probably never going to play a 7,500y course with a final score of 72 (assuming 72 equaled approximately scratch/par on that course).

i tend to think the tiger's and phil's could be the most gifted athletes in the world, even more than the michael jordan's, wayne gretzky's, etc. i say that just because hand eye coordination that requires accuracy at 250+ yards avoiding obstacles...well, this is the only sport that competes on that front. i played with a guy who was on the nationwide for a little while once. there was a 285y par 4 over water that he hit a 3h on the green with and then made the eagle putt. pretty much every other shot he had was also impressive, but i remember that one more than any. i've never seen anyone else come close to doing that when i play...so if he's only half as good as the top pros, i'd say they are pretty darn good.

i deleted that because of a potential misinterpretation :) i know to do all of those things and practice them is what i meant to say. whether or not i remember to do them every time (especially in tricky lies), is up for debate.

i am with you for sure. i play faster and more focused golf when i am alone. when i am with people it seems like it gets a little less serious--which is fine--and more about the company than the game.

didn't even realize this thread was moved. sorry for coming across defensive guys, it's just that i have always (maybe incorrectly) defined good contact as a good ball strike, and defined a good result of that ball strike as something else. part of that being environmental factors that have nothing to do with the clubface striking the ball. of course i would agree a push/pull (unintentional) or hook/slice (unintentional) is a bad ball strike, but if you're aimed at the pin and come up 10y short because you didn't interpret the distance/elevation/wind correctly, that has always seemed to me like it's another issue altogether. and that can easily lead to a bogey, which can easily lead to a 90+ score.

okay so i reread this and apologize, for i thought you said you only read half of what i say and are now putting me on ignore. i didn't get that you meant when i start talking in text language (which i won't do) that you would put me on ignore. apologize for coming across snotty (though you have done it to me before nonetheless). you're right. i read his post incorrectly and responded. my apologies. i have been very thankful in many posts for help i have received actually. the most recent ones haven't really gone in the right direction for anyone though. because i don't think it's worth being so upset about the way someone types in this thread. and for that reason i understand some of you find it annoying, but that we should be able and get over it and continue to talk about the main idea of the thread. but this isn't your boss sending you an email or a college student's essay, it's just an internet message board. one should not be so offended by the way other people type. in fact to that point, my boss sends me text message-like emails all the time and i find them unprofessional and annoying, but of course just ignore it and move on. on a message board i don't even think twice about the way people type, annoying or not. i'm sorry others can't share the same sentiment enough for us to get back on topic.

do some searches on his responses to my posts, he has a habit of trash talking for no apparent reason (unless my typing really really offends him). this "i only read half of what you say, i'll put you on ignore" isn't an isolated incident. still, 50% of the respondents on this thread complain about my typing. seriously this is a golf forum i thought? if i want grammar lessons i do think there are forums for that, too.

i actually read nothing of what you say. it's gotten to the point where i see your name and expect nothing but trash talk from some anonymous nobody on an internet forum. you are free to discontinue posting responses to my posts, as they clearly are causing you much distress. oh and btw, the proper english is "paragraph?" with the "?" inside the quotations. get it right, it's so damn obnoxious when people aren't grammatically correct. i can't believe no one else is jumping on you for this since it is so easy for them to jump on me for my typing nuances

i bend some rules from time to time, i think the biggest for me is when a ball lands nearby a cart path (within 6 inches) i will just move it away from the cart path just enough so that i know i'm not going to ruin my clubs. i don't ever do it in such a manner that improves my next shot, i just don't think potentially damaging a club is worth it (i have done it before and said never again). other than that i play every lie...hell i got half my body in a lake on saturday and hit a mud ball out (and impressively up a hill onto the green). the OB stroke and distance is just a tough rule to play on a muni, period. no one really wants another guy going back to the tee box, and if there is no provisional, a 2 stroke penalty and drop is really the only option. there definitely should be an adjustment of that rule i think!! i hear what you guys say about good players playing together, but when i'm by myself on a busy day, i'll get paired with 2 or 3 players in groups often. unless "good" players only play in numbers divisible by 4, i don't think it's fair to assume the reason i'm not playing with good players is because they would never be paired with me. as for the shift key thing, seriously guys, get over it!! as another poster pointed out, have you read any text message in the last five years? i cld tell u ppl that 2mrrw i will mssg this way til u c how annoying this cld b.

true, though technically i could shoot a 96 on the course in question for 10 rounds in a row, and still come in at a handicap index under 20.

unlikely? it's a calculation that is the same across the board, so it seems pretty straightforward to me. play a harder course, can afford a higher score for a teen handicap. play an easier course, you need to shoot in the 80s to achieve the same result.

wow, the whole shift key debacle is quite interesting. sorry you guys are so offended. at least my punctuation and grammar are accurate, and AT LEAST I DON'T TYPE IN CAPS EVERY SINGLE WORD WITHOUT PUNCTUATION BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE SO MUCH MORE ANNOYING I THINK!!l!>k!!! i played with a guy a while back who said he used to be scratch. i actually believe it could have been possible because he was very good and hit the ball a lonnnnnng way. anyway he was playing pretty seriously and we came to a hole on the back 9 where he hit a drive in an awkward spot and believed it to be lost, so he teed up and hit another. well he found his first ball but elected to play the second ball anyway, then proceeded to hit the green in 2 and make the eagle putt. he gave himself an eagle. had he lost his first tee shot, the best his score could have been would be a par (2 stroke penalty). but since he found it but elected not to play it, i don't even know what that score would be, if you can even take a score for that? silly since he could have easily hit the first tee shot back into the fairway, made the same approach shot and the putt for a birdie had he played by the rules. anyway, when i do get a chance to play with players who appear to be really good, they make up rules a lot more than i would expect to see, and hence their scoring is not accurate.

okay. that's all i meant when i said my handicap was not in the 20s earlier, and that it is entirely possible to have a non-20 handicap index and never shoot in the 80s. apologies my terminology was wrong.

so you agree the differential is 15.7? let's say i played that course 20 times and my best 10 scores were all 92, then wouldn't that mean my handicap index is 15.7 x 96%, or 15.1? that all assuming no consideration for ESC.

how is the course handicap 20 exactly? i'd like to see the math here, because i thought you take (92-73.5) x 113 / 133. that equals 15.7, not 20. where is 20 coming from? and tees shouldn't matter though, should they? you move up and your score is better (maybe) but the rating/slope is better also, which should net about the same handicap. i'd rather play from the tees that suit my distance, since handicap is going to be the same no matter which tee i play from as long as my skill level doesn't change. psychologically an 87 playing from 6,100 yards is not more comforting than a 92 at 6,500 yards for me. every course here is hard. i just looked and the lowest rating/slope of all one dozen or so courses that i play is 71.7/128, distances ranging 6,400-7,000. i think part of our high rating is due to consistently gusty wind conditions, but that's just a guess. i guess it depends on your definition. from about.com: [quote]A little more in-depth, ball striking refers to a golfer's ability to put the clubface on the ball at impact in the desired manner, time after time, and with great command.[/quote] but then later stated: [quote]Ball striking is also a statistical category tracked by professional golf tours that is a measure of a golfer's combined abilities in driving and hitting greens.[/quote] i'm not on a professional tour so i've always gone by the first definition. seems to me hitting GIR and fairways can take so many other factors into consideration other than clubface impact--knowing elevation, green size, wind effects, etc.

What are you even talking about? We are discussing handicap calculations FYI.

I don't agree with this. Phelps official handicap is 18, and he told Haney his best score ever is 91. Somewhere someone is screwing up handicap calculations. If it's me, nothing I read on a simple Google search is right. Damn this thread is causing me more stress than a round of golf.

Explain please, because a 92 score is a differential on the course I mention is 13 after considering the three strokes over 7. How do we get to 17 and yet need a lower score to do so?

I dunno dude, you seem to know everything. The course rating is 73.5 and slope 133. You tell me what my differential is with a score of 92. You can even subtract the three strokes over 7 that i had, if you want.

Hell, I posted that thinking I was editing my previous post. Sorry, did not mean to come across arrogant. Seeing many of you said you only strike well 50% of the time, I am confused. I play i20s which let me know a mishit. I don't feel them often. But i do need to judge club and distance better. A good ball strike to me means in a room with no environmental factors you can get close to your target. Hitting a ball square and dealing with elements really seem like two separate things to me.