BioGolfNebraska

So I played this course in town trying to use my new simplified short game. Only the second time I have played this course. First time, a few months ago, I shot a 124, this time I shot 106 (par 72, 70.7/124). My differential was 32.2, so under my handicap. I even lost my 56* SW somewhere on the front 9, so I didn't have it for the back nine. Nobody turned it in, I couldn't find it, hopefully when I call back tomorrow someone will have it. Anyways, my ballstriking was great (for me), I hit 57% of fairways. Unfortunately there is a lot of trouble on this course, so I had 4 penalty strokes. My inside 30 yards wasn't great, but that was due to putting, not wedge/pitching. I had 8 3-putts (40 puts total), but I did have 4 1-putts, including 3 up and down for pars (and 2 additional pars from GIRs). I also parred the longest hole ever for me, a 200 yarder up hill. My 3 wood went to about 190 and I chipped it up to within 8 feet and I made the par putt. I also had a pitch shot over a sand trap to a tight pin that I decided to just aim behind the pin on (as suggested). It was a tough 134 yard par 3 with an elevated green uphill. The pitch put it to the middle of the green, and I made a 10 foot putt for par. Although the 3 putts cost me, they weren't the reason for the over 100 score. My worst are a 3 quads on a par 4, par 4, and par 5 because of lost balls and not easy second shots after the drop, causing more trouble. Thanks for the help though, we will see how it plays out next weekend, and maybe under 100 will come.

I am not one who can cream the driver, by any means, but I have a 7.5* ben hogan driver that I like to hit sometimes if I am feeling confident. While my mizuno 10.5* driver is more forgiving, it tends to balloon up in the air for me (and gets no roll-out). A clean wack with my 7.5* sends a missle down the fairway that can roll an extra 50 yards. However, off-center hits with the 7.5* hogan driver can spin out to last thursday. If I need to hit fairways for a course, I bring the mizuno. If the fairways are open, but some distance would help, I'll take the 7.5* hogan. I think the mishits on the hogan would not be that good of hits on the mizuno either, but a bad hit on the hogan could be a worm-burner or a big, low slice.

I went a few times this week with just that 56* wedge to the pitching green by my house. I hit a few hundred balls there. I have a pretty good feel (for the time being) how much roll out I will get after each hit, and how much carry, and my ability to put it within a 10 yard radius is pretty good (again, right now). I am actually feeling pretty good about sand shots for the first time ever. I think I was swinging too hard on them, previously, in order to ensure I cleared the bunker, which resulted in fat/thin shots. Now I'm doing a nice gently swing to plop it up on the green.

Quote: I can normally hit a PW- 90 - 100 yards 9 - 100 - 110 yds 8 - 110 yards 7 125- 140 yards 6 - 155 max (farthest shot) After that it begins to slowly reach 3 - 175 yards. I am in my second summer of golf, as well, and I have similar distances. The key is to get them +/- 5-10 yards for a cleanly hit shot. PW 95 9i: 105 8i: 115 7i: 125 6i: 135-140 5H: 150-155 4H: 160 3hybrid (18*): 175- 210 (if I crank it) 3 wood: 200-240 is a solid hit Driver: 230-260 is a solid hit For me, my distances are pretty consistent and the reason for my high handicap is not due to lack of distance, but bad choices and mishits. If I am using a 6-pw I am about 60-80% sure I will catch it clean and put it at that distance, the percentages drop down a decent amount for the 5H/4H, but my taylormade 3h is pretty easy to get a decent hit out of. Anyways, I definitely have birdie/par opportunities with my distances all the time that I blow because of a shanked hit, a bad putt, a bad short game shot etc. In my humble opinion I would recommend getting the distances you have finely tuned so you are confident in them (a par 3 course would do wonders for this.. see if you get hit greater than 5 or 6 greens because you pick the right club), and later you can work on increasing the distance all around. This has been working pretty well for me this summer.

So I have left all of my wedges in the car besides my cleveland 588 56* (and the PW, of course). I played a round at this par 3, 9 hole course with my wife for some short game practice (on a side note, she hasn't ever taken interest in golf, and only goes ones in a while, but has lately gone every other week with me. she made par today with an up and down and good putt, so I think she might have caught the golf bug a bit). Anyways, I shot 8 over for 9, my best score there so far. On the holes where I missed the green, I was able to get on the green and two put for bogie on all but 1 hole (which I hit a tree on my tee off that bounced my ball backwards into the trees). I still am using a 7 iron for chip shots, because I am very comfortable with these. However, I really like the idea of getting a good feel for the distance on different shots with the 56*, so I was putting it within a 10 yard radius of where I was aiming (on 30 yard and in shots). On a side note, I decided that I absolutely despise the 7"iron" and 6"iron" from my A70S set. They are somehow a mix between irons and hybrids, but they end up being a really chunky feeling iron that is awkward to swing. I really like the 8-pw of the set, as well as the 4 and 5 true hybrids. I replaced the 7 and 6 iron with my tommy armour 845 silverscots, and I played much better. I can get a solid 120-130 out of the 7 and 130-140 out of the 6, and they don't have the big fade I was gettting with my A7OS clubs (I think the 6 and 7 of that set are longer than they should be because they are trying to be "kind of" hybrids... anyways, I don't think they fit me or I can't get used to them). I am testing out your suggestions of simplification of the short game this sunday for 18 at a tricky course. If I am under 110 I would say it worked (I shot 124 at this course last time I played it 3 months ago).

I have hit drives before where they take off at a normal trajectory and then seem to hit a bump. They bump up slightly and dive into the ground. I have also had them where they bump to the left/right slight and then dive the other direction. It seems like this has only happened to me when hitting into the wind. I always thought it was from a weird spin that I put on it that caught the breeze in a strange way. I can tell they are not a solid hit when I make them, but the motion of the ball seems physically impossible. I think this might be the same thing you have seen.

I do keep pretty thorough statistics on my rounds, including my up and down ("real" up and down), but I have not kept track of my # of shots from 30 yards in. I will perhaps start doing that. I will say that my "real" up and downs are only 12/156 since I have started keeping track. My average first put distance in the last 5 rounds is 12.2 feet, and my putting accuracy in the last 5 rounds 0-3 feet is 80%, 4-6 feet is 45%, 7-10 feet 18.6%, 11-15 feet 6.1%. Until I get good stats on my "up and down in three", I will assume you are correct. My next round I will aim for the center of the green (or at least a very easy to hit area within a particular radius of the flag) as long as I am within 30 yards. I went out and practiced doing pitches with my 56 degree cleveland wedge tonight from various lengths. I think I am going to leave all my other wedges (besides the PW) in the car for my next round, so I am not tempted. I hit probably 100 shots from various lies and lengths (and in the sand), and they were feeling really good. I was able to get good spin and take a nice divot after the ball on full shots ~30-50 yards, and almost every shot hit near the center of the green. I like using this club for the short pitch shots from the rough as well, and everything was feeling very good. Thanks for all the input, I will keep you updated on how the next round goes with this strategy!

The quads (and even +5 bogies) are usually from back to back fat/thin shots that go less than half of my desired distance. If I am doing well up until 30 yards from the hole, mistakes almost never bring me worse than a double/tripple bogie. This is why I am saying that I want to try and shoot for pars/birdies on the holes where I am actually near (or on) the green in regulation. I feel like bringing those short game oopses that result in double to tripple bogies down to bogies, pars, and occasionally birdies would really make up for the holes were I am not getting even near the green in regulation (due to fat/thin shots, penalties, or shots with too much shape on them). The problem is that although I feel like 60-80% of my long shots are pretty good, I have the opportunity to duff just about every club in the bag (mostly by losing track of my tempo, rushing a shot, and then not keeping my spine angle consistent). So I feel like on holes where I had absolutely no duffed hits, I need to try and score near the greens. Maybe this is not a good strategy still?

I played a nice open praire-style course this past weekend in Southeast Nebraska. I am still getting used to playing 18 at a time, but now that I am, I really enjoy doing it. It was not too difficult of a course, but there was tall native grass that severely punished errant shots. Also, water got the best of me on a couple holes, so I had 4 penalties (ouch). I thought I would finally break 100 half way through the first 9, but a couple very bad holes (+4 on #7 and +6 on #16) killed it. #7 is the number one handicap at 540 yards around a dogleg. The approach shot is a narrow passage through overhanging trees with a creek running underneath. The creek is ~220 yards out, and you have to be in perfect position to even attempt a straight shot through this narrow passageway. I sank some decent 10 foot putts, but the 3 putts killed me (especially the 3 putt on hole #11 where I hit my tee shot 10 feet from the hole). We are doing 18 again this Sunday at a course in town, so hopefully I can avoid the blow up holes and par the ones where I am close to the green/hole in regulation.

I think this is dead on, but I didn't realize it until you realized it for me. I have always put it closer to the pin with a chip and run shot, so I force myself to do that when that shot is nearly impossible. In regard to not needing pars to shoot a 90: in regard to my game, I would disagree. The majority of my holes are bogies now (anywhere from 7 to 12 per 18 holes). I tend to have 1 or 2 holes that are a tripple bogie or higher (due to a long ball not being a dead hit, putting me in bad position). Currently, I will par 0 to 3 holes per round, with a birdie being quite rare (only 3 this summer out of 30 rounds). Although I am trying to be more consistent, I think the occasional bad shots that lead to high scores on a couple holes will remain for a little while. However, if I could par the a higher percentage of the holes where I get within 30 yards of the pin with 2 strokes left for par (typically ~5-7 holes per round) it could easily make up for the the 1 or 2 tripple bogie or higher holes. I think these pars where I am getting right next to the green in in regulation will be easier than eliminating my occasional bad full swings, and, thus, I think the short game could help me shoot better scores. Thanks everyone for the tips. I think you have made me realize that I should practice a simple, repeatable pitch shot for when the chip is impossible, and then to otherwise rely on a chip/putt to get close to the hole when I can.

I think my problem is a mixture of execution and shot selection. I am a pretty good chipper (every couple rounds I hole one or two from off the green), but I think I am sometimes hurt by chosing to chip in a situation where a chip is a hard shot to perfectly execute (such as too far off the green, or when there is only a little bit of green between the fringe and the pin). I do like the idea of having one or two greenside shots with 1 club in order to perfect that. I think I am going to designate my 7 iron as my chipper, and practice that, and use my pitching wedge (which I could use from 100 yards in) as my designated pitcher, and practice that. This way I have only the choice between "pitch with my wedge" or "chip with my 7 iron". Thanks for the advice, I will practice these simple shots this week and try them out this weekend- we are playing a rather difficult, but manageable course, where difficult greens/greenside areas make the short game important (my only time playing, a few months after starting, I shot a 124, so hopefully these suggestions will improve on that).

I have been golfing about a year now, and typically shoot around 105-110. Like most high handicap players, my GIR rate is pretty low (~13% for the summer), and the main reason for my high scores is the high number of strokes I make around the green. I think if I could eliminate these tripple/quadruple bogies that are caused by bad choice of short game shot, my long game is okay enough for me to consistantly be shooting in the mid to low 90s (a range that would put me not far off from the people I often golf with, so I wasn't 10-15 strokes ahead of the pack). My trouble is, I find that my selection of which shot to use around the green is poor. This makes the outcome much worse for decently executed shots (but perhaps the wrong shot). I would like to practice some specific short game shots so that I can execute them well, but I struggle with when to use each shot. Here is my question: What are some of the different short game shots you have, which club/situation do you use them in, and what kind of stroke do you use? For example: My chips I tend to use whenever there is less than 20 yards to the green, and I tend to use a 7 or 8 iron, but I have seen others use a 9 iron or up to a 60* wedge for some chips. I am not sure when to use different clubs for chipping. Also, any other specialty shots (such as a hybrid/2 iron around the green) that are useful? I sometimes punch/run with a 5 hybrid from around 100 yards off the green if I am in the trees and can't loft it. Thanks!

Why is PGA live not showing a single player in the top 10? I have been watching since coverage started and I haven't seen a single shot of Luke Donald, Dustin Johnson, or Tiger.

So my memory clearly didn't serve me well. He even mentions in the tips on the Cialis commercial to make sure the ball is at least half out of the water. haha. Here is the clip, I finally found it: http://www.golfchannel.com/cialis/?vid={ACCF4A7D-6466-47E5-AFDD-DAC7B68C508F}

My main point was not to define what was a moral action in regards to a private club. It was simply to say that private clubs are not exempt from moral responsibilities.

That is quite generous (although probably keeps up pace of play well). I am quite excited that in our group "getting a double" has changed from meaning double par to double bogie . This is how I know we have gotten better. Trust me, I had a number of "triples" under that meaning as well.

If you swapped out a few of those for Husker banners, I think you could be on to something.

Nothing decreases my chances of having a good shot more than thinking "hey, all I need to do hit this one on the green and then I'll have a nice, easy birdie putt" in the middle of my backswing. I am like you, though, and tend to know exactly what shot I am at. I wish I could forget during the swing, though.

This illustrates why sense of "right and wrong" comes from your life experience. This reminds me of my in-laws. Both have a similar viewpoint as you, but I believe that it is only my father in law's viewpoint (similar to yours) which is justified. My father-in-law grew up in a lower-middle class family, worked his butt off to get a partial scholarship and then worked his way through college to be the first in his family to get a degree. He is now a vice president of a banking group. My mother-in-law grew up in a rich family and never had to work a day in her life. She got a college degree, but never used it. Both of my in-laws have the viewpoint of "don't take away my money/freedom to help out the poor people and the minorities". While it seems kind of cold-hearted to me, I completely understand that my father-in-law would have that stance, because he came from a poor family with no advantages and worked hard enough to succeed- so he expects others to do the same. My mother-in-law, on the other hand, probably would have starved to death if she hadn't been fully furnished by her family (and then her husband). I don't think she has the right to talk down to people from disadvantaged situations. You have a similar story to my father-in-law, and I completely understand the frustration that comes with that. There are drug addicts sucking up welfare money and less qualified applicants getting admission into schools (probably most evident in professional programs). There are also innocent people put into prison, but I don't think that justifies abandoning our criminal justice system. I am of the perspective that trying to improve the life of those less fortunate could only help- even if people will take advantage of it. I don't think it has anything to do with "politically correctness" or not wanting to offend anyone, it is more about wanting to do the most good possible with the least repercussions (and I am not saying that I, or anyone, knows how this could be done). This seems so incredibly off topic, but what the hell did the starter of this thread expect? haha

I am a high handicapper in my first year of golf. I don't think I ever legitimately could not remember how many strokes I had on a hole. Each hit that doesn't do quite what it was supposed to hurts too much to forget. Whether it is "how many shots to get from the trees on the right back to the fairway" or "how many to get out of the bunker", I usually remember them well after the round is over.

On the lighter side, I'm a married guy and I totally get it.

Again, you are missing the difference between can and should . I am not saying what Augusta (or any other private club) should do, all I am saying is that what they should do (on the sheer basis of what is "right" and "good") may not be everything that they can do. If Augusta could kill its members for infraction of the rules, you and I (and most others) would agree that they should not . They absolutely can chose who to be a member of their club, but people are going to have different opinions about whether they should . Arbitrarily excluding people based on race or gender is not intuitively wrong to everyone, I understand that. Certain things (such as senseless murder) are intuitively wrong to nearly everyone (aside from psychopaths). As far as bamagrad's comments are concerned: I wouldn't say it is okay to discriminate against white males, necessarily, but I would say it is less okay to discriminate against those who are not lucky enough to be born a white male in the United States. I think you can justify giving an advantage to a class that has a lower standard of living (due to arbitrary discrimination), because that advantage will still not make them level to the majority in power. That being said, I will guess with about 90% certainty that you are a white male, and that you do not want your superiority to be withdrawn. I don't blame you for that viewpoint. I also do not necessarily take the stance that private golf clubs should include everyone (lord knows Augusta would not allow me as a member, and I am okay with that), but I do take the stance that we should be cognizant of the fact that some groups of people lead a much more difficult life than we do (as far as getting jobs, salaries, and getting into private clubs where they could network with important people). I think that it never hurts to do whatever possible to benefit those groups of people, because my group (and myself) seem to be doing just fine. I mean no offense, and I certainly do not want to be inflammatory. If you think my analogies do not emphasize my point, if you do not understand my point, or if you do not agree with my point, I hope you do not hold it against me.

I just wanted to emphasize that everyone agrees that institutions do have SOME boundary for their behavior EVEN IF they are private institutions. I used an extreme example (human sacrifice) to emphasize that this is something that would not be morally condoned even at a privately owned institution. Everyone has their own value system with what they believe a "private institution" can do without being "imoral", but my point was that they are not exempt from morality just because they are not government-funded. EDIT: This has nothing to do with legality, because, I'm assuming, that noone on this forum would condone private club human sacrifice even if it was a legal practice. I am not sure whether exluding women, minorities, or whomever from a club constitutes as imoral behavior. I just want to make sure people realize that just because someone (or an institution) CAN do something, it does not necessarily mean that they SHOULD.

This was the main point I really wanted to enforce. laws and "absolute right vs. wrong" are not a 100% overlap.

There may not be rules for what a private institution MUST do, but we all agree that there are things even a private institution should do. A private institution should conduct their business in a generally moral way, and we probably all agree on that. The discrepency is in what we would define as behavior that is not in concordance with optimal morality. We would all agree (hopefully) that even private institutions which sacrifice members for improper dinner attire are morally reprehensible. However, we clearly do not all aggree that private institutions that exclude certain individuals based on arbitrary qualifications are morally reprehensible. This is because our individual definitions of what is "right" are based on how we were raised and what experiences we have had in life. This is why situations such as this rarely see 100% consensus. EDIT: And I am okay with not reaching 100% consensus. The discourse is interesting enough, and I don't think there is anything wrong with someone who disagrees with me.