Ajlepisto

I'd completely agree. I've always thought the real reason that children learn better is not because their brains are more efficient, but rather that they aren't as concerned with things like form and appeal and simply focus on the task. I've never seen a kid worry about what they looked like, yet as adults, we analyze and try to find the correct poses. It's amazing how much better one gets when we just trust our brain and body to make the adjustments for us. My wife is a great example. The longer she takes to swing, the worse the shot will be. I've played best, especially putting and chipping, with this idea. Just take your time approaching the ball, but once there, don't think. Simply let your brain do the calculations and adjustments for speed, line, etc. I've been way more accurate letting it happen automatically.

I wish I was capable of trolling like this. But I wouldn't even know where to start.

Also you could be hip thrusting toward the ball. When I had the shanks, I was early extending and trying to hit a draw. Also, if you spin out and come over the top you could also get the hozel out to the ball. Or, you could be too far from the ball (also related to early extension) and be diving down at the ball too much. Everyone has their own cause of the shanks. Figuring out what your key issues are is part of the fun!

Would it make sense to think that the forward lean from setup is different because the swing is a circular motion with the hands as well? Since the hands are forward of the clubhead, they are traveling more around, left, and therefore closing the face but also putting the toe of the club towards the player. At address, simply leaning the shaft forward does open the face, but that's not the position the handle would actually be in during a swing, no?

I bought one today. I was planning on doing a video review. What would you guys like to see? It works fine. Yes, it does get loose. But, it seems to hold graphite shafts better than steel. Also, when you hit the sweet spot, the unit barely moves. When I tried to do some crazy swings, and ended up hitting some shanks, it would move. I don't see how this would be worthless at all. It provides data which can be used to measure yourself. If you compare the address data versus the impact data, there's enough there to determine what your trends are. I also don't see why needing a target line would be important. All that does is establish a point of reference for data to be calculated on...but the swingbyte does this by taking into account your club measurements and address position. It's assuming you address yourself square and get the unit on square. That is somewhat difficult to do, but the data it provides does seem to match up, unless the unit shifts like crazy.

Makes sense to me. Isn't that why we get better once the feel of "proper" makes sense to us? Everyone learns differently, but I feel like I learn the fastest and most efficiently when I can engrain a feel quickly. I think that's why drills are better than positions. Once you do the mirror work to understand what the ideal position feels like, it seems more effective to find the feel, not just pose. What I mean is...it seems that the best students are able to convert a thought to a feel really quickly. Hank Haney stated in his book that Tiger Woods could implement a feel very quickly by fine tuning the feeling of the extremes. I hear he was a pretty good golfer.

Just thought I would update this. I've been tracking my progress on another forum with a similar post. The biggest issue I have right now is that I am using a cell phone camera, which makes it hard to see my impact position. Instead I got a swingbyte, which has confirmed what I thought. Though I do get a little flippy, and I fought a time as evidenced by the video I posted, I was achieving forward shaft lean at impact. I actually went the opposite direction in effort to fix what I thought was a wrong feel. After about a month seeking success somewhere it wasn't, I just got back to the basics. I started to keep my hips and shoulders closed and hit into a posted left leg. I naturally get a lot of lateral slide on my downswing which makes my impact position near the leading edge of my rear thigh. I was alarmed at this, because without true slow motion, I couldn't tell what true impact was like. Thanks to the swingbyte and some tweaking, I've managed to determine that I am hitting down properly. Here's an updated video. I've successfully shortened my backswing by keeping my trailing leg bent during the backswing. I was letting my lead arm break down a bit and standing up on my backswing which caused me to tip a little. I'm still casting a bit of clubhead speed about a foot before the ball, but I think it may be that I am a bit too steep still on my downswing. I've gained a lot of distance and now am hitting a small draw, albeit still very high, but 8i is going around 145-150. Thankfully the wind has died down a bit and allowed me to see what my ball flight is like without any influence. I suspect I just need to learn how to calculate more accurately depending on the wind conditions in the future. Also I play in the PacNW, somewhat close to sea level, so I assume that will impact my ball flight numbers as well.

Worked a bit on this. Here is a new side view: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31Px_xkXQ1Q&feature;=youtu.be Sorry the audio got out of sync. I'm going to record a better video. I still hear the whoosh a bit before contact...but not quite as bad. I don't know if that's good. I hold lag until halfway down my swing usually, but I just seem to lose it in the bottom 25% of the swing. I'm still carrying around 250 with driving range balls, but my swing speed should produce much better results. I'm beginning to get frustrated. I know how to hold the angle and I do it, but it seems like I stall when I get to impact. I wondered if I was letting my elbows get stuck behind my body a bit, so I've tried to keep my right elbow tucked during the backswing. Seems to have helped accuracy, but I don't know if it's really helped impact. I'm just not sure if a manipulation of the wrists is what I need. I'm tempted to say its a setup issue, or maybe a swing thought issue.

Can you post a video? It could be anything. Maybe you are casting? I was losing power recently and realized I am scooping the ball at impact. I've worked hard to get rid of it and my distance is coming back slowly. Do you swing very upright? I am 6'2" but am trying to get a bit flatter because it seems to help me get into a better impact position. If you're too upright you get too steep coming down and you release your lag too early.

Is that an increase? I'd be careful comparing your driver to your irons in terms of distance because it could be something as simple as lofts.

So I hit a few balls on a LM today. I have to question the accuracy of the system. It was a CG2 at a Golfsmith, and it was showing I had 75mph 6i clubhead speed. I topped out at 80mph. Yet I was hitting the ball around 160 carry with KBS C taper X stiff. I was blown away. Hit today on a different LM and was getting 6i speeds above 90mph. I guess I've learned now that you can't really trust numbers all that much. I wish there was a place to hit new clubs at a range.

I think the most simple analogy would be to compare it to this: Would you rather be hit with a brick traveling 100mph, or a feather? Same speed, but the mass is the factor that increases the impact. When you flip, you disconnect the chain to your body and instead of hitting it with a large mass moving together, you hit it with your forearms. That's why I could get the same contact and just not actually compress the ball and get proper ball speed.

Another video about angle of attack:

Here is a good video that addresses some of the angles of attack, etc:

It robs me of ball speed, but maybe not necessarily much clubhead speed. I will see about that... When you flip, you aren't actually accelerating into the ball with any mass (your body), you're basically reducing the mass of the object hitting the ball, and using just additional momentum from your wrists. If you notice, lots of times on the videos I have, the shaft is unloaded really really early into the ball because my arms have stopped moving forward and my wrists try to straighten the club. It requires a lot of timing and provides less than optimal contact and ball compression. Not flipping makes sure that I hit the ball with all of the energy I generate in my swing, compressing the ball properly and getting optimal distance.

The difference is that the driver is usually used with a tee. Ideally, you'd want to hit everything on the way up if you wanted optimal launch. However, it's impossible to hit up on something that is on the ground. The only way to do this is to hit it fat (behind the ball, through the ground) and we all know how well that works :) Hitting down or at best perfectly level (picking) is the optimal way to strike a ball. It produces the best contact and also keeps the spin rate high enough to hold greens. I usually hit up on irons when I tee the ball up, or at least, level.

Is there a way you could upload a video? It could be any number of issues. I have a thread just below that showed I wasn't ideal at impact and was losing distance.

It doesn't "matter." I can play with a flip. In fact, I have for around 2 months. I've only been playing golf for 6 months though - so it's led me to be really inconsistent. When you flip and hit a high ball, you are at the mercy of the wind, mostly. I wanted to keep, 1, my ball flight down, and 2, get the maximum distance and compression for my swing. I was starting to ramp up to around 95mph on swings just to get more distance and hitting it 2 clubs shorter than pros who have a lower swing speed. Worse, I was hitting the dead center of the clubface, but just not transferring much mass into the ball. Here is a new video. No ball, sorry, but my impact looks better. For me, it seems just that my setup wasn't too great. Now that I have the shaft closer to matching my left arm angle from FO view, I don't overswing and my spine stays back. Then it's just a matter of keeping my head back a bit. I just need to work on that move through the ball. Since I flipped, I learned to get through the ball a lot and now I still get past the ball a bit. Fine tuning I guess. Thanks for the replies though. This has been a really big revelation to me. I'm hoping to hop onto a launch monitor again soon and compare the numbers. After a few weeks I think I can start ramping my swing speed up again, but for now, I'm just trying to be smooth. I've had people say that my swing looks smoother in person too, because I used to have that little hitch at the bottom.

It's really possible that you don't load the shaft. You didn't saw what shafts are in there, currently? Swing speed is only one factor when it comes to shaft fitting. I'm not an expert but I've seen enough numbers even with my own experience to see how changing a shaft even within the same stiffness category can really dictate the ball flight. But, generally, assuming all else is good, low ballflight without much spin would indicate that you don't load the shaft right. Have you lost distance, too?

100% true. I took up golf around the same time that the OP did, and I was hitting okay. Then I got this great idea to look at some video and try to start fixing my problems. Sure I look better now, but I have a whole new set of trouble. The thing I realized is that the more you focus on the golf, and the less on the ball, the better I play. The only tip that's actually helped me consistently has been to just get up to the ball and take a loose swing.

I've thought about it. I'm not sure if I would like that, though. I'd like to get fitted, or a lesson...but I don't know if I like a system telling me what shafts, head and even ball to play. I feel like there's a difference between optimal, and what I play, see and use best. I'm a big believer that you can adapt to nearly anything. Not saying what they offer isn't good...but I think I'd like to play clubs that feel the best. Hopefully that makes sense? Anyway...I tried hitting some balls today and played 9 holes today with this new idea of keeping my head behind the ball. Huge difference. I'm still launching the ball a bit high, but the flight is straight/slight fade and the ball is once again compressing properly. I've regained my distance, as I was pushing a 6 iron to 150 and now I'm hitting easy 7s focusing on technique. Once I get comfortable and maybe hit a draw, I'd probably be at a 8-9 iron again. I really had no idea I was flipping that bad...but I've only gotten this more upright, proper swing for about a month or two, and I've never been at the point where I could play with it, until now.

I will never be self-conscious about my swing again. LOL.

Question: I tend to lose my tush line and I rise out of posture with a bit of a rounded back. This is due to my shoulders being fairly level at impact and address? So if I got to impact with my left shoulder higher, it would mean my left hip cleared and rotated up and out, and kept my head back, right? And that would help my hands continue through impact and I'd get more of that shaft lean at impact? When I really rotate hard through with my upper body I can get 6 iron launch angles at 16 degrees, but never any lower. Usually it's around 18 degrees, but there are a few lower and a few higher.

Yes, that exactly. It's strange because I thought I wasn't flipping. I take good divots, which I've heard is the number one thing that DOESN'T happen if you flip. I also have tried drills like the impact bags and even the punisher and coat hanger on the grip, and they all say I pass...but then I watch the video and voila...this still happens. I always thought my distances were a bit lousy for how fast I swing. I barely carry the ball around 250 and my swing speed can reach closer to 106-107. I always have center face contact, too, which is REALLY weird. I've hit a tour striker, and I don't have any issues with that, either. The only thing I can think of, is that it looks like my head moves a lot forward during my downswing, because I'm always hitting a ball towards my back foot. I'd do drills where I put the ball 3 inches in front of where I would normally put it, and I'd slide left just fine and hit it, but I think I slide with my entire body too much, instead of pushing my hips forward and keeping the upper body back. It kinda seems like that sets me up for failure with everything else. I notice that when I setup, I don't get the shaft and the forearm on the same angle from the FO view, and my shoulders look fairly level. I'm thinking my problems stem from that. I always just assumed if I have issues hitting down, I'll keep my weight on my left and lower my left shoulder so I am literally aiming lower. I guess that's terrible reasoning. I also wonder if some of this is set up by the fact that I'm playing standard lie and length clubs, and I am 6'3." I wonder if I am going down after the ball too much. It doesn't seem to be as bad as with the driver and the 3 wood, the longer clubs. It gets really difficult with the PW, the shortest club.

You should try something: You are obviously swinging outside in. That's no question. You can't really hit a hard, flushed straight pull without that. When you hit a fade, does the ball start left and fade right? As someone who usually hits a fade myself, this is my ball flight when I'm having a bad day. Ideally the fade should go straightish and slightly peel right. If you are coming outside in, over the top, you'll pull it and then it slices back straight. Anyway, try putting a shaft or an alignment stick through your front belt loops. Like this: http://www.toursticks.com/template/images/drills/TourSticks/Training_HipAlignment.jpg If you think you're not over the top, it could be that your hips are a little out of sequence and your hands are behind you. When you take a slow swing, do your hands get stuck behind the stick on the downswing? Mine sometimes do. So what happens with me is, you think you're inside out, because your arms are coming low and inside, but your body has pivoted around too soon, so your arms are kinda flinging through at a different angle. It's confusing, but this would be an easy way to tell. I was told by my teacher that when you start to get better, you can have issues getting stuck like this with your hands low behind and it causes an over the top to actually hit the ball solidly.