sabram

I guess I misunderstood when you said "it was somewhere between your local muni and a dog track…off the list for sure and wouldn’t recommend playing it ever again ." That sounded different to me than "it vwas a good layout but not in good condition." The photos are form March 2009

It's on my bucket list. Post a report on your round

I've played Oyster Bay several times and never experienced poor conditions. It is one of the top layouts in the northern strand and was the most popular course in Brunswick Countyin a recent MBGT poll. You can find reviews and inquire about MB course conditions at http://www.myrtlebeachgolftalk.com/tabid/111/aff/3/Default.aspx I wouldn't hesitate to play Oyser Bay again when conditions return to normal there.

Here's a link to best plaxces to play bin vegas and photos. http://golfcourses.weebly.com/las-vegas-nv.html

I also like Wild Wing and the Witch. They are nice layouts that often fly under the radar of MB visitors. Glad you enjoyed them.

Florida is sunny and rainy most of the year so the grass is almost always green. Rain can make for bad condititions and for the most part courses in Florida do not play firm and fast beacuse they get a lot of water. World Woods and the courses north of Orlando are more likely to have firm fairways if that is waht you are looking for. Of course, hurricane season can wreak havoc on conditions and ability to play. Summer can be unbearably hot and humid

I've played more than 60 courses in MB. I wouldn't say that there is an abundance of great courses there. There is an abundance of good courses and an abundance of mediocre courses. The must plays are The Dunes Club , Caledonia and True Blue . After that there are a dozen or more good choices. PIck anyb one of these for your fourth round: Starting at the South end and moving north Heritage Legends Moorland or Heathland Grande Dunes Barefoot - Dye, Fazio and Love Tidewater Glen Dornoch Oyster Bay Tigers Eye Leopards Chase Rivers Edge Other good courses are Prestwick, TPC, Kings North, the Witch, Willbrook, Pawleys Plantation, Founders Club, Wildwing, Heather Glen, Thistle and World Tour. No reason to consider any of the other 75 courses unless you are looking to play on the cheap. Here are links to photo tours of most of the MB area courses: http://golfcoursephotos.weebly.com/south-carolina.html SC Course photos http://golfcoursephotos.weebly.com/north-carolina.html NC Course photos

World Woods has two excellent courses, but it is a long drive from Orlando. There are some very good courses about 45 minutes north of Disney. Sugarloaf Mountain, Victoria Hills, Deltona, Mission Inn (El Campeon course), Bella Colina and Timacuan. The terrain in that area is hilly and the soil is sandy, making for more interesting options than many of the courses closer to Disney. Osprey Ridge is my favorite of the Disney courses. The other three courses at Disney are more typical Florida courses. Falcon's Fire is just standard Oralndo fare IMO. Reunion Resort has three good courses. I like the Watson course the best of the three. The Nicklaus course is the most difficult with lts of bunkers around the greens and fairways. Watson has lots of sand too, but it is more managable. At Orange County Natonal I prefer Panther Lake over Crooked Cat, although the back 9 at Crooked Cat is quite intersting. The New course at Grand Cypress is okay. It looks a little links-like but does not play like a true links course. It is interesting because it is different from most Oralndo courses. Here's a link to my favorite Orlando courses with links to photos of most of the courses on your list. http://golfcourses.weebly.com/orlando-fl.html I would rank the ones on your list as follows: World Woods - If you go there you should play both courses. Victoria Hills Panther Lake at OCN Osprey Ridge at Disney Shingle Creek Grand Cypress New Harmony Eagle Creek Celebration Royal St Cloud

Kings North has more water and forced carries than Willbrook. KN has water on half of the holes. Willbrook has water in play on "only" about a third of the holes. Willbrook is a little tighter though. I would tell the 30 handicapper to bring a lot of balls and not to worry about losing them. If they just play to have fun and not worry about score or losing balls they'll have fun on either course. If you want an easier but more plain cousre play the South or West course at MBN. Neither is as nice as KN or WB, but they are easier. Here are links to photo tours of KN and WB. Maybe that can help you decide. http://sports.webshots.com/album/569342510nOQHcD - Kings North photos http://sports.webshots.com/album/569345876dnyXZb Willbrook photos

Not sure what you mean by over rated, but if you don't think Saguaro is a top 5 public course in the PHX area IMO you'd be wrong and part of a very small minority. I like Cholla too and wouldn''t argue if you prefer it to Saguarao, but both are among the best public courses in the PHX area. On the other heand, Kierland is not in the top 15 of the courses I've played in the area.

Here's a picture of a beautiful par thee overlooking the Hudson River at Sleepy Hollow Country Club which is the course closest to where I grew up. Welcome to the golf obsession. I started taking photos of courses that I play about 6 years ago. Here's a link to about 5,000 photos of 300 courses I've played since then http://community.webshots.com/user/tewie19

Not sure if they are hidden any more, but Vista Verde and Southern Dunes are two of the best courses in the area that aren't known to all tourists. Here's a link to favorite PHX area courses: http://golfcourses.weebly.com/phoenix-az.html

McAllister? Do you mean Alister MacKenzie, who designed Cypress Point, Pasatiempo, Alwoody, Crystal Downs, Royal Melbourne and Century, and co-designed Augusta National? PB Dye is one of Pete's sons. Not sure what the PB Dye course has to do with a comparison of Pete to RTJ or whoever this McAlllister charecter might be. Or do you mean that PB Dye is not at the same level as Jones or whoever?

I agree with most of what you say. The Dunes, True Blue and Caledonia are my thee fvaorites at the Beach and Heritage is good value. However, I've never had a bad experience or bad conditioning at Barefoot. My group has played Barefoot in 2008, 2009 and 2011 (Dye, Fazio 2x and Love 2x) and the conditions have been perfect. Like every every other MB course the rough is dormant in winter. No reason to stay away from Barefoot. Here are some photos so you can see the greens and fairways. I'm not syaing all 4 barefoot courses are always perfect. I know they had some problems with greens during the drought a couple years ago, but generally these courses are very well maintained. For current conditions on mamny MB courses by real players check out Myrtle Beach Golf Talk: http://www.myrtlebeachgolftalk.com/tabid/111/aff/3/Default.aspx Barefoot Dye #5 March 2011 Barefoot Fazio

Bandon is Awesome. Here's a link to my Bandon Dunes trip report from Septmeber. There are lots of Pix and descriptions of the holes if you scroll down. http://golfcourses.weebly.com/bandon-dunes-resort-bandon-oregon.html

The first two that I would suggest are top tier courses at second tier prices: Vista Verde and Southern Dunes. They are two of the best courses in the area and not too expensive. They are "Must Play" courses. I also like Rancho Manana. You have the Raven on your list. There are two Raven courses. One is near the airport and is an Eastern style course with decidous trees. The other one which I prefer is Raven at Verrado which is West of Phoenix and is very good. Raven at Verrado is my favorite from your list. The two courses at Talking Stick are not a second tier courses. They are good Coore/Crenshaw courses on a flat piece of land and they are pretty expensive to play. Longbow is a solid "second tier" course that you can play for a good price. Eagle Mountain is pretty and very frogiving with wide fairways that tend to funnel balls into play. Kierland is expensive and just average Scottsdale fare. I haven't played the others on your list.

6 very nice courses and Barefoot is a nice place to stay. I'm sure you and your group will have a great trip.

There are a number of Orlando courses that I'd suggest over Royal Oak. I thought you were looking for decdent courses as close to Melbourne as possible. Here's a limk to my favorite Orlando courses. Most of them are an hour to 1.5 hours from Melbourne. Eagle Creek is close to Orlando airport, about an hour from Melbourne. http://golfcourses.weebly.com/orlando-fl.html

The best example I can think of are the greens on Old Macdonald at Bandon Dunes. They are 18 of the largest, most undulating and most intersting greens in the world. Including several "false fronted" greens, a Biarritz (#8) , a punchbowl (#18) and more. There is a new DVD about the design and construction of the course that you may find interesting. Here's a link to the DVD http://www.bandondunesgolf.com/products/old_macdonald_dvd/1144.php?page_id=10 Edit: For some reason all the photos are not appearing. I'll try to fix later #8 "Biarritz" green at Old Mac - a Biaritz green has a swale that crosses the green of the green #12 at Old Mac "Redan" - Check out the drop offs at the front and right [ #14 green at Old Mac Old Mac #16 green - see the caddy at the front right corner of the green to get a sense of how large it is - and it is not nearly the largest at Old Mac [URL=http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2102012350100544033aBVlQu][IMG]http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/49789/2102012350100544033S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Old Mac - a portion of #17 green [URL=http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2235956910100544033kxWmDh][IMG]http://inlinethumb38.webshots.com/37221/2235956910100544033S600x600Q85.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Old Mac #18 - see the group putting on the punchbowl at the right hand side of the green. The wide green funnels evrything from the upper left down

Bay Tree National is a nice course in Melbourne. http://www.baytreenational.com/sites/courses/layout9.asp?id=806&page;=45068 Don't know Harmony Ranch, but Harmony Preserve is a nice course about 40 minutes west of Melbourne Royal Oak is in Titusville, about 40 minutes north of Melbourne

As others have siad, It is a big state with lots of courses at lots of prices. If you are considering the Orlando area check out this site: http://golfcourses.weebly.com/orlando-fl.html - Orlando courses If you are considering the Tampa area, I'd suggest World Woods. There are two of the best courses in the State at Worldwoods and it is reasonbly priced If you are considering the West Plam area, I'd suggest PGA Village which has three good courses. If you are considering the Jacksonville area. I'd suggest TPC Sawgrass, Amelia Island or The courses at the World Golf Village If you are considering Miami I'd suggest Crandon Park or Turnberry Isle That only scratches the surface of Florida Golf courses. Difficult to give a decent response without more info from you.

I'd suggest that you call Brian Noblin at Myrtle Beach Golf Desk. I've used him to book MB trips several times and found him to be honost, knowledegeable and helpful. He'll help you put together a package that will meet your needs at your price point and it won't be overwhleming. 800- 642-3108 http://www.golfdesk.com/ By the way, February can be quite cold in MB. You can have frost delays and probably won't be able to play 36 holes a day. The main benefit of MB in Feb is that prices are low.

I've played more than 60 of the 100+ courses that remain open on the Grand Strand. My three favorites are True Blue, Caledonia and The Dunes Club.I'll give a description and reasonas at the end of the post. On the Myrtle Beach Golf Talk forum their was a recent thread askingposters to name their five favorite MB courses. Of the first 21 replies, the courses that were named more than once were as follows. I would inlude most of those in my list of top 20 MB courses: Caledonia - 18 Dunes - 16 True Blue- 13 Tidewater -10 Rivers Edge - 9 TPC - 9 Barefoot Dye - 5 Grande Dunes - 4 Moorland - 4 Barefoot Fazio - 3 Leopards Chase - 2 Heritage - 2 Barefoot Love -2 Kings North -2 Cape Fear - 2 Willbrook - 2 They did another poll of favorite North end courses with the following results: Oyster Bay - 10 Rivers Edge - 10 Tidewater - 9 Leopards Chase - 8 Tigers Eye - 7 Glen Dornoch - 6 Thistle -6 Carolina National - 4 Cape Fear National - 4 Crow Creek - 3 True Blue is unique among MB courses. To most players it is either love it or hate it with few in the middle ground. It was designed on a grand scale with wide fairways, huge bunkers and some large greens. It is like an English Heathland course on steroids.(except without the heather). When it first opened it was very diffciult with one hole having a difficult blind second shot and there was lots of high grass in the rough. They have made it more user friendly since then, keeping the rough short and lowering the dune that made the shot I refered to so tough. No two holes are the same. The greens are inetersting and allow for a variety of shots. Many of the holes allow bump and run shots.One of the things I don't like about TPC is that almost every hole has bunkers blocking the green front, a narrow entry to the green or some other feature that forces every approach to be flown onto the green. True Blue has more options in that respect. I don't think there is another course in MB like True Blue Caledonia is like playing in a botanical garden. Besides being beautiful it also offers a nice variety of holes, shot options and interesting greens. Other courses in MB that will remind you of Caledonia, (but not as good IMO) are Heritage and Willbrook, both of which are less expensive courses if that is a factor in choosing. The Dunes Club. This is one of the oldest courses in MB and is a semi-private club. It has severeal architecturally inetersting and famous holes, including #13 known as "Waterloo". When Robt Trent Jones Senior built this hole it was the first of its kind, a par 5 circling around the lake, daring you to cut off as much as you dare on your second shot to try to reach the green in two or for a shorter hitter, to make a par. It has been copied many times since, but this is the first. If you have an interest in Golf course architecture, in a country club setting, this is a course to play. Here are links to my photos of these three courses: http://sports.webshots.com/album/579929091bMBhQR - Dunes http://sports.webshots.com/album/579927639Swarmy - True Blue http://sports.webshots.com/album/570513900QVSgqT - Caledonia For lists of best MB courses by area (South, Cental, and North), photos and trip planning info, here's a link: http://golfcourses.weebly.com/myrtle-beach--the-grand-strand.html

Here's a link to an interesting artcile that just appeared in the Wall St Journal about the tstae of golf courses in the U.S.The article says in part that "We won't see anything like the boom that began around 1990 and extended into the early 2000s. During that period, according to the National Golf Foundation, an average of 300 courses a year made their debut in the U.S. The peak was 2000, when about 400 courses opened. Every year since 2006, more courses have closed in the U.S. than have opened, with a net loss of more than 300, and a huge oversupply remains . http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204452104577060172893982112.html

Why blame B of A? If the owner thinks it's a better business deal to sell the land rather than operate it as a golf course, it's not the buyer's fault. Lots of courses are closing across the country because too many courses were built in ways that made them too expensive to maintrain and operate. It's just not a profitable business to be in in many cases.