dwade247

This is exactly what I was trying to say. This is what I have experienced due to inconsistent ball striking and lack of knowledge reading lies. I would say without a doubt that if you know how to use tour balls and can hit the shot as you see it pretty regularly then they provide much more control around the green. Unfortunately we don't all have those skills.

I would definitely agree with this but I don't think it tells the whole story. For example I've played quite a few holes where I have had what I see as very straight forward pitches. Not expecting the grab I play them for roll out but the tour ball checks up. Then I will have a similar straight forward pitch 2 holes later and I'll play for the spin but I'll strike it a little bit off so the ball ends up rolling past the pin. I am saying that tour balls only give you more control if you have ample control of your short game. http://www.golfdigest.com/story/fred-couples-feel This is an article about Boom Boom's bunker approach. Basically he says he stopped try to get cute and spin his bunker shots (unless he absolutely has to for a tight pin) but instead he just chunks it and lets it run so that he knows what to expect every time, even if he is a little off.

Those are both very good comments. Judging of the lie is an example of the knowledge I believe I and many weekend or high handicap golfers are currently lacking. And I have not been able to compare the differences with approach shots (cause I'm pretty inconsistent with those) but this is one aspect where I feel my theory may crumble. But clubbing a for the front of the green usually leads to descent results for my skill level and expectations.

So what I have been thinking lately is that tour balls may actually make my short game worse and therefore make my scores worse. I have searched to see if others have found this but I have had limited results. So I thought I'd start a thread and see if anyone else has experienced this so that maybe we can start getting this idea to high handicappers/inconsistent golfers. I developed this idea this season when I started shooting lower scores and therefore started trying out some tour balls for my improving game. What I found was that these balls seemed to make my game worse. And I am not talking about shorter distance off the tee or too much spin on a tilted spin axis (sidespin) making hooks and slices worse. What I found was that the spin I would get around the green was inconsistent. With short chips and pitches I would get spin that made the ball check up when I struck the ball perfectly but then I wouldn't get it when I was a little bit off. This lead to some shots stopping quick many feet short or some releasing past the hole. So basically my inconsistent strikes made for inconsistent spin/check/performance leaving some balls short or some long. Now I when I use cheaper 2 piece surlyn covered balls I know they are not going to spin much on these shorts whether I strike them perfectly or not so I can always play for them to release and roll out. Therefore all my shots roll out leading to a closer dispersion around the pin. I know that if I practiced i could improve my striking and probably get more consistent spin with tour balls. However I don't believe I have the knowledge, patience, time, or even desire to practice that much and perfect my short game. So my plan is to play the "more forgiving" 2 piece surlyn covered balls. Anyone else experience this or think it's an interesting idea?

I'm the OP and I have switched to blades. I originally started this thread way back when I was just started to get a golf addiction. When I made that original post it was good if I broke 100. Now I shoot around 90....and I play blades. Last season I played Titleist 690.mb irons. Dropped 10 strokes with blades. Now I'm not saying it was because of the blades because I practice a LOT more and played a LOT more. I did almost everything on the course better. But the point is the blades didn't hurt me! This season I'm playing Mizuno MP-37s. I find blades don't hurt my game to any noticeable extent. And nobody is paying me to shoot a 40 instead of a 43 so if they really do cost me 3 strokes (which I doubt they do) then I'm ok with that cause I enjoy playing blades. Anyway I find that blades usually go straighter when mishit, but just not as far. However I find GI irons cause the ball to slice and hook more when mishit. I would rather be straight and short.

Then definitely go G20. Don't want to be questioning the craftmanship of you clubs

I would say either irons Nike or PING would be great and for a very long time. If you like the G20s I don't think you will ever "grow" to of them unless your ego takes control of you and you WANT "players" irons. I would suggest making your choice on whichever one you can get the best custom fit with. Don't buy the Nikes and get a shotty fitting. However if you can get a great fitting and good craftmanship on the Nikes for a reasonable price, those would be my choice.

Do you go to school in Burlington at CC? But as far as driver suggestions, I would say all those options would be a good choice. Go to the store and try them out with different shafts. Honestly it will probably come down to looks, brand, and feel. Also pay attention to shaft length. Many stock shafts on drivers are 46" which is crazy long. Titleist and I think Cobra have 45" which is a bit better. Otherwise a custom club may be good if you have the funds. Best of luck

PGATSS blows golfsmith and golf galaxy out of the water in my opinion. I live in Downer's Grove, IL and they are all within a 1/4 mile from each other. PGATSS always has the lowest prices and if they don't they will match the other stores. You can even use other golf store gift cards there. The selection is much greater. The used clubs prices are unbeatable at the PGATSS. They also have the best fitters and club repair around. I find the Downers Grove store to have better used clubs deals than the Schaumburg store.

pga tour superstore

As far as GI irons go I think pings are almost unbeatable. However I think the cobras are nice and they are a great value. I don't know why the guy at your golf store talked them down. Not to mention, who is that guy anyway? I would guess there are a lot of people that know much more about clubs than him. Most of the people at the golf shops are not really club experts. They are just people and most of them fall into the same traps as anyone. Cobra has been making some great clubs lately. For price I think the cobras are hard to beat. Nike also has some clubs I like. Taylormades are good for price but I feel they really push the limits of long shafts and strong lofts. However the store buy me has a great deal on the SLDR irons for 500$ equipped with KBS tour shafts. Not sure what your budget is, that's way out of my budget personally, but it's a great price comparing. So in the end I would go PING if I wanted my perfect GI clubs. Cobra, nike, and Taylormade for value. Titleist or Mizuno because I like the brands. I'm also not a huge fan of callaway and I don't know why. My dad plays callaway woods and I helped him pick them out and they are great, just not my brand. However the apex irons are pretty sweet for GI clubs.

Just don't worry about the numbers on the bottom of the clubs. Get the irons you hit well. If that means you have 4-GW or 5-GW or 6-GW it doesn't matter. Just get the clubs you can "consistently" hit well at reasonable distance gaps. Lower CGs are supposed to launch the ball higher but with the cranked lofts this does not always happen. Basically making GI irons just big headed irons that may give you a little more forgiveness on mishits, however I don't personally really buy into that either.

Thanks for the info BeCU

Depends on the club and how it is set up. Also depends on the golfer

Thanks for your thoughts on the v-sole. I have been looking at the SCOR wedges and think that they feel great. I also like how the mass is distributed well from the bottom to the top of the club to help get consistent distance if I hit it hight on the face when I'm in the deep rough. That is a brutal distance killer with traditional wedges. Can you tell me about how the v-sole performed in the sand? Does the bounce increase if you lay them open? Did you ever feel there was too much bounce on the leading edge on tight lies? Here is a little more on the new Hogans. You can also follow the link on the page to the hogan website. http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/article7697279.html Says price will be about $150 for steel shafts. Clubs will only be sold to approved custom fitters. (Great idea IMO, but could be a pain if there aren't any local fitters for some) ALLEZTOM - You are right about the roll out being more on a 4 or 5 iron, but i'm more concerned about my carry distance gaps. I would rather know how far I carry each iron and then just think about the rollout and either accept that it will roll off the back or if I can do something to stop it sooner. For example, if a hazard is in front of the green, and the carry is 185 It doesn't do me much good to have the option between my 6i at 170 carry +5 yards roll, 5i at 175 carry +8yards roll, and the 4i at 180 + 10 yards roll. I really want to choose from 6i at 170 carry, 5i at 180 carry, 4i at 190 carry. Then I just decide whether or not I think the 4 will roll of the back and if I can deal with that. (However, with my game I should probably lay up ha)

Here is an article with a little more info such as price, fitting, etc. I'm really liking these a lot. Kind of seem they may be a possible improvement of the mp32, i think they look a little better anyway, and the cutout just reminds me a lot of the mp32s.

Cool! Enjoy em!

Yeah I've seen those and I love almost everything about what they are doing with those. Just not sure about the v-sole and not a fan of the price tag. :/

I mean they look great, and if they feel great, and the seller at least has some reasoning for them not have serial numbers I would probably lean towards them being legit. It's hard to make a good feeling fake forged iron. What kind of shafts are in them? I would compare the shafts to ones you think are legit too. I don't think too many people put premium shafts in fake clubs and vise versa. If you have recently purchased them and don't trust that they are legit you can make a claim on eBay. Then the seller will have to make you some type of offer that you accept or eBay will get involved with their buyer protection. I did this with a set of irons that were supposed to be new but had significant scratches on the face. I contacted the seller with a notice to eBay that the item was not as described. EBay opened a case and then the seller and I had so long to figure it out before eBay stepped in. The seller agreed to refund me if I pain the return shipping. I took that deal cause 20bucks was worth getting those clubs out of my hands without too much trouble. I would take it to some Titleist guys and see what they have to say. May also want to call Titleist and see if they put serial numbers on tour issue clubs. I would also take off one of the grips the seller said had some numbers and initials under them and see if that means anything to Titleist. If they don't trust it then I would get your money back.

There is a grip by Boccieri that has 17 grams of tungsten weighting in the end to counterbalance the weight of the club. It's called the Secret Grip. It's essentially the same as the lead tape thing.

The one thing I never understood about strengthening the loft of GI is that I though the purpose of GI irons was to launch the ball higher. Which they do if the are the same loft as the blades, but now companies just make them stronger lofted and the GI irons launch at nearly the same angle as the blades. For some people its even less, but for some I will admit it is more. Although I don't enjoy what the companies are doing, it is on the customer to educate themselves about what they are buying. Just by the lofts you want and can hit well. If you like swinging a club that has a 7 on the bottom better than a 6 even though the lofts are the same then go for it. Mistakes are made when I play thinks that since the irons are GI they will help him/her hit that 4 iron easier. When in fact they don't because the GI 4 iron is 2-3* stronger and designed to launch at the same angle as the blade 4 iron. However if the player decides to leave the 4 iron out and have the 5 iron be their longest iron, then they have made a smart decision and will be able to hit their 23-25* club since the GI properties will help get the ball up. If everyone followed Wishon's 28"/24* iron rule then GI irons would be great for that person.

Cause most people don't know that they are essentially hitting a 4 iron. They just know that they hit the demo 6 iron 10 yards longer than their old one so they buy a set.

Totally agree and thanks for ideas. I think Wishon has some very good ideas about setting up your equipment so it works well for you and your ability level even if it means you won't be reaching par 5s in two. My next objective is to try and figure out my hybrids/woods like you said. Currently I was thinking of carrying a 20.5* 910h and a 16.5* 910f thinking that those would give me some pretty good gaps. However I will have to wait to check my gaps with my new iron lofts. My other option would be to carry a 21* 7 wood and an 18* or 17* 4/5 wood. I don't really enjoy hitting hybrids or woods that much and I can't really tell which I hit better since I rarely pull them out of the bag to hit.

Thanks for info guys! I have been doing a lot of research myself since I started this thread and I have found Tom Wishons thought to make the most sense to me. I'm thinking that 4* gaps between all my irons would help my distance gap problem. So it would a 4i at 24* with a PW at 48*. I think that should help my gaps. I know most would suggest swapping my 4i for a 4hybrid but i feel much better with an iron. After the 24* 4i I will go to my 20*hybrid then my 3 wood.

Thanks for the response. Why does a gap of 3* create better gaps at the top? Why do some "better" players request 4* loft gaps all the way through?