Cesar

So waiting 10 holes to put them on the clock is how the slow play rule is "clear cut and well defined"? I'm just asking because I haven't seen the complete PGA Tour Slow Play rule. So you think if Harrington and Woods have a dramatic to-the-wire battle with Tiger making that birdie on 18 to win by 1 instead of 4 that there would be a huge outpouring of whining? Really? All I can see is excitement,, a ton of highlights and a great build up to the PGA Championship this week. Any player complaining about that would be laughed at if not ignored, and for good reason. I would hope most of these college educated players would have the sense to know where their bread is buttered. Excitement is good for the game (and their wallets). Yes, that's my point. If he was going to put them on the clock, do it earlier in the round. From the sound of it, they certainly deserved it. I would have no problem with that. But to do it on the 70th hole is bad. Just bad. It ruined the tournament, and that's never good. That's not the intent of the rule. That's cool, just stay in the right lane please. That's too bad, I had fun.

If what iacas says is true, that they were warned as the early the 6th hole and actually lost ground the following 10 holes, then that tells you they're already fudging it. IF they were going to put them on clock, they should have done it much sooner, not on the 70th hole of the tournament. They snoozed, they 'loosed' as far as I'm concerned. Nobody cares about a ticky tack call in the 2nd quarter of the game, but everybody remembers the one with :45 seconds left. How sure are you that this actually happens? As long as you can prove to me they follow a clearly defined rule to a tee every single time for everybody, then I might consider conceeding this point. I just have a hard time believing that they do. Somehow, I think you're going to have trouble finding a rule saying a group has 10 holes worth of warning before being put on the clock. There is certainly room for discretion with this rule. As I said in the Bridgestone thread, a fellow PGA Tour player complaining of Tiger and Paddy not being put on the clock would have to be a near sighted fool that isn't a fan of the game. And even if they aren't fans of the game they play for a living, then they have zero business sense because everybody wins with a dramatic finish between those two players on that great golf course.

Including John Paramor. I meant "equating" in a relative term. That's why I said cheating might be as serious as robbing a store in terms of golf related offenses, but not falling behind the group in front of you. Well maybe you're right, I'm not on a first name basis with Mr. Paramor, so I wouldn't know. Maybe he screwed up all by himself. I specfically said driving 60 MPH in a 55 MPH zone, which should lead you to believe I was talking about going 5 MPH over on the highway or highway-like road. A harmless offense that nobody ever gets busted for even though techincally it is still against the law. You're bringing up much more serious and dangerous examples of people driving recklessly around children. I don't care that rules be asked to enforced either, but go ahead and complain to a cop about not giving speeding tickets to people going 60 in a 55 and see the response you get. It's just common sense to me. You don't pull that stunt on the 70th hole of a tournament like that. If what you're saying is true, that they were behind for a long time, then that is proof positive that the official had discretion in the matter. Why not put them on the clock when they fall behind instead of "giving them a chance to catch up". Dropping that bomb on them that late in the championship is akin to a ref calling a ticky tack call at the end of a game 7 to decide the game. Nobody wants to see it. As for their justification for it, that they have to look the rest of the field in the eye, I think that's ridiculous. Not one PGA tour member with a half a brain is going to complain. Unless they aren't fans of the game they play for a living, I can't see it. You think players back in the day would have complained about Watson and Nicklaus falling behind dueling in the last round on a stage like Firestone? I guess some might have, but they would have been laughed off as crazy. I just can't understand how the players that complain (if any), wouldn't have the business sense to understand that having these guys go head to head for a dramatic finish is good for everybody. Nobody loses. Great for ratings, great for sponsors, great for fans, and most importantly of all, great for the game and its rich history. Instead, fans are pissed, Tiger and Paddy are pissed for being robbed. I personally feel robbed, I can't imagine what they feel. That's fine, I honestly don't care about them. If they were seriously contending for the title, I would. That's life on the PGA Tour, be in contention to get noticed. History is not going to remember them playing this tournament. The Rules of Golf are the rules to me. They are easy black and white decisions. Ground your club in the bunker, penalty. Hit it out of bounds, penalty. I'd never in my wildest dreams consider breaking those as they are the gospel. But this rule ain't one of them and it leaves (in my opinion) room for discretion. If there was ever a great example of that, it would be this past weekend. If you haven't put them on the clock by the 70th hole, then let it ride man. The pros FAR outweigh the cons. That's all I'm saying.

I'd try asking around for best one around. Unfortunately, not all PGA Teaching Pros are created equal. Kind of like a chiropractor, if you can find a real good one, you're golden. But find a bad one, and you'll be paying a pretty steep price in the long run.

The Associated Press reported that he was fined and like any news outlet, they passed the information on. Well our memories differ. Really wished I would have recorded that now. Seems to me that if you're going to name names like they did, it was a little more than talking about how it might have played a role. Yes it started out discussing if it might have played a role, then they named the CBS official specifically and confirmed that he did lobby for it. I'm sure of it. Really, we're equating falling behind the group in front to robbing a store? That serious to you, huh? Well far be it from me to stop you on your anti-slow play crusade, but maybe I'd equate somebody cheating to something as serious as that. A better analogy, in my opinion, would be somebody urging the police to arrest somebody driving 60 MPH in a 55 MPH zone. Yes, technically, the police officer can give you a ticket for that since "the law is the law". Luckily, 99.9999999% of police officers use better discretion than that. Hopefully, after the backlash from this blunder, PGA officials learn to do the same.

Or as pathetic as assuming I "guessed" at the influence CBS had on this. Unless the Golf Channel was lying, they were able to confirm both with PGA officials and CBS officials that the network was indeed actively lobbying the PGA to push to get the round completed by 6PM on Sunday and that they did have some influence in the decision. This was reported right after the tournament during their post tournament coverage shortly after Tiger's comments were made. They even named the CBS official that was responsible for it which I unfortunately don't remember. So if their report is true, then your "guess" that their "influence ends when tee times were set" is inaccurate.

Yep. I think CBS' influence in this whole matter is being seriously understated. This isn't about rules of the game, slow play lessons being taught for the average golfer, etc. This is about CBS wanting this thing wrapped up by 6PM so they can show whatever the hell it was they wanted to show. Personally, I think that's pathetic.

If you're swinging 105 MPH and only carrying it 230, you need to go get a new driver that is better fitted for you. Of course, that is assuming you want to carry it farther. Maybe playing in the wind in Ireland you want to keep the ball closer to the ground and play more roll.

They talked about it on the Golf Channel after the tournament and said yes, CBS was involved in pressuring the PGA to get the tournament in by the alloted time. Of course, this makes no sense at all since a playoff looked like a real realistic possibility anyway, but that's what they said.

Wrong. Paddy should have taken the high road, which is what he did. Anything less makes him look like a crybaby. Woods was also in the right for speaking up on Paddy's behalf for exactly the same reason I listed above, because Paddy couldn't do it himself.

I don't care about when the clock starts since my point is that they should never have been put on the clock to begin with. As for the gallery, I don't know how the Sunday final pairings Tiger is in stack up in terms of being in or out of position. What I do know is that Paddy and Tiger finished the round in 4 hours and 2 minutes. May have been 4 hrs and 10 minutes (tops) if the officials weren't riding their asses. Big friggin deal!!! Maybe a hair over where you want them, but certainly not slow enough to taint what was shaping up to be the battle of the season. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I'd be interested to hear how you create "equity" in the size of galleries and number of cameras? Do you assign holes to galleries so each player has to play with the same amount of people watching? Same with the network cameras/reporters? Where is the equity in some scrub player barely making cuts playing in front of 25 people and zero cameras vs the zoo that Paddy and Tiger had to play in? As much as some of you would lke to do, this is not a cookie cutter black and white issue. There is one hell of a lot of gray involved.

I think it's appropriate they fine him, and think Tiger expected it. I also think it's entirely appropriate that Tiger said what needed to be said. Tiger stood up for Paddy and personally, I like seeing it. He echoed my own thoughts when Nantz mentioned it during the broadcast. Hopefully this leads to some "internal" PGA meetings and a quiet agreement that a complete lack of common sense like this should never happen again.

Agree. 1 shot down with 2 to play is not "game over" as some have suggested. Not by a long shot. A birdie or two to finish and anything can happen. Tiger being the opponent shouldn't change that.

I think the tournament officials neglected to use common sense. Yes there are rules in place, but they don't HAVE TO be enforced in a situation like that. You have arguably the best player ever going up against a guy who won 3 majors in 13 months revently on a great course and stage. Why do anything to ruin it? Word on the Golf Channel last night was that CBS was the the one applying the pressure to wrap the the thing up on time and that's why they were put on the clock. IMO, that's idiotic on their part because a playoff was a very possible scenario anyway. Not to mention how good for the game something like that would have been (and their ratings). Kudos to Tiger for sticking up for Paddy after the event and kudos to Paddy for taking the high road, even though you could tell he was obviously upset about it. Personally, I think whoever made that call needs to be taken as far away from a PGA event as possible in the future. Clueless.

I've done it once. I was about 15 years old waiting for a par 5 to clear for my 2nd shot. Guys behind us were not pleased we were waiting and decided to hit into us for the 4th time in the day. Their ball landed literally 3 feet from me, no "fore" or anything. I proceeded to tee up the ball, pull the driver out, and beat the living pi$$ out of it on a b-line straight at them. Ended up rolling right through their group on the tee box 275 out straight up hill. To this day, probably the best drive I've ever hit. Waited for them at the turn and ripped into them like a rabid maniac. They looked at me like I was crazy....going after a group of 20 somethings at only 15 years old. Probably not the smartest thing in the world to do, but I was a bit of a hot head back then and had more testosterone than brains.

5 iron > switchblade

Off a tee, no wind, flat terrain, average conditions, I hit my 3 wood about 285. 10-15 MPH wind behind me, I'm around 300 yards. Into that same wind, maybe 260ish. I used to hit it on narrower holes or just to keep it short of hazards. But now, after reading Tiger's book, I use it a lot more frequently. He said he almost always hit 3W off the tee on downwind holes because he could carry it almost the same distance as his driver and be a lot more accurate with it. Made sense to me so I started trying it, and what do you know? He was right!!! Sometimes, my 3W doesn't behave as well as it should though and I may end up being more accurate with my driver. Have to adjust on those days and leave her in the bag. Hate when that happens though because the game is much easier when she's working.

Good, now you're day dreaming the same way your post had me daydreaming. I'll never forget the last time I played Pebble. My wife and I stayed at The Lodge for our anniversary, probably in one of the rooms next to yours (door facing #1 tee, upstairs) Walked right out of the room onto the putting green. Teed off at 7am, not a drop of wind with the marine layer hanging overhead. First 7 holes were pretty calm and overcast. Started off -1 through 6 and almost aced #7 spinning it back it to 4 feet (missed the putt though ) Once we got to 8, the fog started to break up, the sun started shine and the wind strted kicking up. Ended up being a pretty stiff 20 MPH. Wow, what a different course it turned into. Ended up shooting 77 with TWO snowmans on the back 9 par 5's (14 &18) Played -1 for 16 holes and +6 on those two. To this day though, that was the favorite golf outting of my life. My only regret is that I didn't get the caddie like you did. Oh well, just another excuse to try it again.

Howdy! I just sent you a PM.

Great write up! Having played all three courses several times, most rounds being at Spyglass, I pretty much share your opinions on all of them. I especially like how you described Spyglass as being "sensual". Right on point!!! One thing you didn't mention that I think adds a lot to that experience are the shadows. They give me chills everytime I play it. The way they look crossing the contours of the fairways on a nice sunny day is breathtaking to me. There's no other place like it.

It IS a lot of money, but it IS Pebble Beach. I've done it, back when it "only" cost $375 to play. Took my wife there for our anniversary and stayed at The Lodge. Spent a bunch of money that weekend, but to this day that was the most enjoyable weekend I've ever had. If you REALLY love the game, you won't regret it. The place is heaven on earth.

Put me in the group that doesn't give a damn about where anybody spits expect for tees and greens. ESPECIALLY greens. As another poster said, greens should be treated as sacred ground. But if you dip and want to spit in the rough, fairways, in a bush, whatever. Doesn't bother me one bit. As for "banning" people from a golf course for spitting, smoking, or pi$$ing in a bush or behin a tree, that's some of the funniest stuff I've read in a long time.

Well said Chas. I suspect Tiger is a little like McEnroe in that respect, or at least sees himself as such, which is why I don't expect much change from him. With time, he will likely mellow out and by the time he's a senior will be the country club gentleman people want to see and most of this stuff will be forgotten.

Might be the case, I don't know. We're both hearing these stories second hand, but there a few stories out there on the internet that corroborate what I'm saying as well. Maybe they're untrue? Who knows? I'm still a Trevino fan because, to be honest, I couldn't care less about this stuff. I realize these people are human and often fall short of the lofty standards people put on them. Then that is your problem. You, me, and anybody else here are in no position to "expect" anything from him. Tiger's ALWAYS been a hothead and there is a pretty good chance he always will be. It's part of who is, expecting perfection ever shot and getting really pi$$ed off when he doesn't execute. He's an emotional guy who is probably the biggest competitior on the planet in any sport. And as someone alluded to earlier about Woody Austin's comment, Woody was absolutely right. There is a double standard. People need to get off Woody's case as well. Tempers have been with golf since its inception and will be here until the last golf round is played. I suppose you can always change the channel if you don't like it, just don't "expect" it to change.