70sSanO
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Everything posted by 70sSanO
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I don’t know who your buddy is, but I’m guessing he ain’t getting any of the Saudi money anyway. I read an article where someone with LIV golf described the current golf viewer demographics. I don’t remember the exact ages and percentages, but current viewers are primarily old and that in 25 years the majority of the viewership will be dead. I wonder if any of this really matters over time. Except for those who are being paid to play, will it really change the millions who play golf and don’t watch. I do a lot of cycling. I’ll watch some highlights of the Tour de France; even I can’t watch 5 hours of peddling. But the disparity between professional cyclists and people who ride bikes, and don’t care about the pros, is probably off the charts. Golf might go the same way. John
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The problem I have with the lawsuit is that the top 30 PGA Tour players can’t show up and play a LIV event. If a contractual agreement, (that requires playing a certain number of LIV events) is necessary, it is difficult to see a difference between a LIV player playing a selective PGA Tour event and a PGA Tour player playing a selective LIV Tour event. This is not about how much LIV would jump at it, it is more about what each competing tour (competition is so ugly in anti-trust) requires of their contracted players to participate in an event. I would think the lawsuit would hold a lot more weight if the LIV Tour were being prevented from operating, or prevented players from playing in a LIV event, by the PGA Tour. It would seem hard to determine any damages to players who are now able to continue with their livelihood and receiving a higher compensation. John
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Let’s start off by alienating half the population. So much for growing the game. John
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FIFY John
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I think you mean “streams”, not “tunes in”. LIV doesn’t have any TV broadcasting as of yet. This doesn’t mean a casual fan won’t stream LIV, but it is not the same as channel flipping and seeing the LIV tournament leaderboard and the PGA. John
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I not sure any of the Saudi PIF Board Members are involved in player or analyst/commentator decisions. I'm thinking Greg Norman is calling the day-to-day shots. The impression that I have is that the entire LIV Tour has been woefully mismanaged in its approach to building an exciting and fresh alternative to the existing tours. Once the newness wears off they will be stuck with basically a tweaked lower level version of the same old thing, with the same old commentators. I would think that at some point Greg Norman will be held accountable by the PIF Board. Especially if the LIV Tour is viewed as a less desirable professional golf experience by the public. I'm not sure how much input the PGA (Tour?) has over the NBC/CBS analysts and commentators, but there is an excellent opportunity to re-tool the broadcasts. Most of the golf analysts are just plain boring and void of any personality. I'm not saying they have to go full Madden or McEnroe, but maybe have some semblance of being entertaining. John
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They’ll just start a LIV Legends Tour with a 36 hole format played on Tuesday and Wednesday where the prize money will be keeping their bonus. John
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With the finances behind LIV, I really don't think it will go away. I agree that there is a perception of excitement and something new with LIV. In the long run this tactic may even be a blessing in disguise for the PGA and DP Tours as people may just not care about the golfers on the LIV Tour. The consequence is that LIV ends up not being relevant to anyone under 30. The only real threat to the PGA Tour is if LIV sets up sets up a development tour. If you are a young aspiring player who is struggling financially while trying to get that break and someone is willing to pay you a $250k salary and pay your expenses until you can make your move onto the big LIV tour, it would probably tough to say no. Especially if you are not from a family of means and no one else is helping you out. A lot of pros have stories of how they struggled starting out to make ends meet and get from one event to the next. I'm sure those experiences have molded their game and the ability to play better under pressure, like Trevino's stories of hustling with empty pockets. But with no guarantees and so many who never make it, it might be wise for the PGA Tour to take steps to keep young players in the fold; even if it means some degree of subsidizing. John
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While LIV has pulled in a few younger players, and they will most likely get Cam Smith, the LIV rosters are a good example why you don’t put someone in their late 60’s in charge of personnel. John
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Let’s not forget that any league can’t function and have a tournament without golf courses also being willing to take the money. Not sure of the acceptance rate, but I would guess what is being offered most likely exceeds the annual budget. John
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Gooch's response smacks of assurances by Greg Norman that the PGA Tour would not really ban players and that if they did they would back down as soon as there were threats of lawsuits. I don't think it is a ploy for sympathy as I believe Gooch when he said he is not a smart person. I'm not sure why he is even bring it up. He is getting over-compensated and should just move on from the PGA Tour. People have made much worse life changing decisions. John
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https://www.golfdigest.com/story/charles-barkley-says-he-will-talk-to-liv-golf-about-opportunity I actually hope this comes about. I can't think of a better addition than having Charles Barkley as one of their "analysts". John Edit added: I read that Charles jokingly said that he'd kill a relative for for $200 million. With that statement I don't think he has a clue who he is dealing with.
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Is this a Topgolf opportunity? John
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I can’t disagree with what everyone has brought up. I just don’t have a lot of confidence that what the players originally signed, or if they refused to sign they can’t play, will hold up if taken to court. I think in the course of our lives we have had to agree to terms or forfeit an opportunity. I’m not sure how enforceable those terms have really been. Don’t get me wrong, I never want to see any of those players play in a PGA, R&A, USGA, or any other non-LIV event. And if they do I only wish for missed cuts. I also don’t want them getting their LIV payday and then playing on the Champions Tour; regardless of any mea culpas that might transpire in the coming years. I suspect most of them will really want that down the road and hopefully regret their actions. John
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I have no idea how things will play out. My observation is that in the 21st century having to ask your employer permission to engage in another gig is pretty much out of step with the current culture. Even more so for independent contractors in the entertainment industry. Professional sports is entertainment as that is where the revenue comes from. I never cared for Greg Norman and would love to see this fail and have fall flat on his face. John
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By good standing I meant that they have not failed to meet the PGA Tour requirements at the time they were suspended. Nor were there any morals clause violations, other than trying to put their former employer out of business. I only see it as a "potential" stumbling block if the suspension is based on what a player is doing outside of the PGA Tour on "technically" their own time. Obviously if the players fail to play in the minimum number of PGA events, that will result in losing their ability to play; but at the time of the suspensions that had not yet happened. There might be some precedence, although not exactly the same circumstances, when professional athletes play during the off-season. Winter ball used to be really popular for some MLB players, I don't know the status anymore. The unfortunate Brittany Griner situation stemmed from a yearly trip to play in Russia. Obviously these should not impact the player to perform during the MLB, WNBA season, except for Griner and for anyone who got injured. I'm not a fan of LIV and could care less if it disappeared tomorrow. They only interesting player for me to watch, who went to LIV, was Bryson. It will just be interesting to see how it pans out. I suspect that the courts will uphold the status quo, but depending on any lawsuits it might be found that the PGA Tour acted correctly, but presumptuously in the timing of its suspensions. John
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Golf is a tough watch for the casual fan. Without that "you gotta see this guy" the parity has made it tough to establish the household names. Seems like there is the initial splash of a player's success and then as the ripples subside so does the interest in that player, except for the die hard followers. John
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I know it is not in court... at least not yet. And I realize the DOJ looked into this in 1994. They have also looked into profession sports leagues. My guess, or SWAG, whichever you prefer, is that the PGA Tour might think they are on loose footing by suspending players in good standing, but as time goes on everyone of those players falls down Fedex and OWGR points they no longer have their card. I believe DeChambeau even alluded to playing on the Asian(?) Tour to maintain points. Keeping LIV out of OWGR is what is really important. Without that recognition time is on the side of the PGA Tour. Everything else is posturing. John
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As for the PGA Tour ban. The easy part is banning players, the hard part is being able to maintain that ban in court. Have no idea how that one plays out. The Rory team was basically a thought that you ride into town, shoot it up, drink the whiskey, take the money, and ride away never to return. The key is for the “best in the world” to embarrass the LIV Tour and never give the opportunity for a re-match. However, if they lose, the LIV Tour, and Norman, brags. Might be too much risk. I see LIV lasting for as long as they want to spend the money. Pretty simple. John
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The LIV Tour is not going away, even if it ends up just a private tour. I suspect the PGA Tour probably can’t ban an otherwise qualified player from playing a PGA Tour event based on playing on the LIV Tour. OGWR is the key to who plays. As long as LIV players get no points, eventually they will have to go through the same qualifying process to play in a PGA event. If they get awarded OWGR points from LIV events, that changes everything. John
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TLTR… But I doubt LIV would allow a non-LIV assembled team to play in only a single LIV event. It would be an interesting situation as there would be risk on both sides. John
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That would end as soon as Rory, Rahm, JT, and Scottie decide to enter their team in a LIV event without joining LIV. John
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Yes Taylor, for you this is as cool as it gets. John
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I watched a bit of the LIV golf, with former official tour celebrities, in Portland. From what I saw it is typical TV golf with a bit of interest with the teams. For the most part just a bunch of guys hitting good and bad shots. The only thing that stood out to me was a missed eagle putt by DeChambeau. His reaction to a completely meaningless missed putt was so contrived. Hopefully acting lessons are provided along with their paycheck. Only thing missing was an opponent running out and breaking a chair over his back. Which does bring up the point that some people will watch anything; and LIV golf is most likely is not going anywhere. If tournament fees are fairly inexpensive and the beer is cheap, people will attend. From what I've read it was sold out. Regardless of whether the players are over-the-hill, they still have a draw. People are also fickle and don't care that much about atrocities that didn't impact them personally; especially as time goes on. There is so much partisan hate in this country, there is hardly any room left for anything else. The one part I think is of vital importance is not putting LIV results in the OWGR. Greg Norman's plan is to attract enough ranked players to make a case for strength of field. But attracting a field and abiding by requirements necessary to be recognized in the rankings are 2 different things. If not, maybe those Skins Games results should have counted. Without the rankings, participation in the majors will eventually end for most of the LIV players. The Ryder Cup will be an interesting dilemma. I foresee that it would be possible to have LIV players on the European team. If that does happen, I'd just shut it down from the US side. The Ryder Cup isn't that big a deal in the US, but stopping it would be a real blow across the pond; especially after a record setting loss. I don't think it has fallen to the lows of the Davis Cup in tennis, but... I would hope that the PGA Tour will withstand lawsuits based on clauses included in their membership requirements. The bottom line is that everything LIV is doing is the farthest thing from growing the game. John
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Matthew Wolff is 23. He has won on the PGA Tour and had some runner-ups. He's made $7.5M. Probably not a bust at this stage of his career. However, it does appear, at least at this point in time, that he may not be cut out for the PGA Tour long term. The only issue is whether or not he is the anomaly of young players coming out of college, or does he represent a shift in what the top college players want. I have no idea. Losing older pros is one thing, but losing youth is entirely different. Matthew Wolff may have zero impact on the PGA Tour, but how much impact will his decision have on NCAA golfers. While I'm not in favor of the LIV Tour, this does put the PGA in a quandary. Banning existing players is one thing, but I'm not sure of the legality of banning golfers who were never members. John
