9iron

Well, you guys keep claiming it is all b.s., but yet it keeps rearing its head over and over again. This time from a professional golfer. Everyone is just out to get the guy, huh?

It was only a matter of time before these reports surfaced. It will only be a matter of time before this is accepted as fact with one Tiger Woods.

Wordsmithing at its finest Erik. The entire point is that what goes for gospel truth here doesn't fly elsewhere, and I believe that has been born out. You can word smith all you want, but it doesn't change anything. And my feelings aren't hurt either. Not by you or your little lackies.

Distinction noted.

Please. You are playing word games. I am not trying to misrepresent anything here. I know you are going to play word games. I know you are going to dissect. It is what you do. Any attempt to mislead would be easily recognized. 24% of Tour Players polled when article was written said they thought he used PED's 59% of golfers who were polled felt he used PED's 21% out of a whole 64 voters here at TST "believe" he may have used PED's People are not stupid. They know that results vary depending on who or where the question is asked. Or even how the question is asked. No one is being dishonest, so that claim is specious even for you, turtleback.

I was being charitable. The question was whether or not golfers thought he used them. 59% responded yes. The point being that the number of people who believe he may have, or actually did, use them can be a LOT higher depending on where that question is asked. TST = 21% Huffpo = 59%

I saw the distinction. The headline and lead sentance didn't exactly match what came after, but since you mention it let us lay it out more precisely. 24% of Tour Players at the time the article was written believed Tiger may have done PED's 59% of golfers believe Tiger may have done PED's

Agree. For me it would depend on the pin placement.

I do in fact do something like this. I'll give them one press, but I limit it to the front side only and only at exactly 2 holes down. They can take it that one time and then only. If they forgo the press, then they don't get to exercize it later and they never get to press on the back side. My logic is that if you are unhappy trailing by four or five holes, then play better. And if you don't like the bet, then don't take it.

It is ironic that the head line of that huffpo article (written years ago) says that 24% of golfers believe that Tiger used PED's, but the current poll result shows the number who believe it is up to a whopping 59%. That is a majority now. This flies in the face of those here who are ridiculing us for the belief it is possible. Equally ironic is that virtually every time people get all heated up defending Tiger around here, one national voice or another brings him up in an unflattering light. The other day it was Tiki Barber and his radio side kick on CBS Sports Radio. Today it is Don Imus who decided to react to yesterday's A-Rod non apology-apology. Whatever anyone thinks of Imus, he has a national radio audience of about 2.25 million listeners + his Fox Business TV viewing audience that would have heard this. So how does this involve Tiger? It involves Tiger because right after he called A-Rod a pretty derogatory term he brimngs up Lance Armstrong and, you guessed it, Tiger Woods. Then the 6 people on his panel jumped on the two of them as well, meaning Lance and Tiger, with a debate about which of the three is the phoniest (they used a far worse term) athlete in the world. The segment lasted several minutes. This is what is happening when you actually broaden your horizon beyond TST. Maybe if we wear blinders we can pretend this stuff never happens.

You must be a miond reader Erik, because you continually claim to know how people feel about Tiger Woods. Kinda weak. The guy is a golfer to me, no more or less. And again, this isn't a trial so no opne needs "evidence". Like the other gentleman, I don't have Pics. Guess that is proof it never happened, huh? LOL. You guys started the thread asking people what they believe. Now you know. Well waddya know! I said the same thing and you went off on me. Too funny.

It isn't just shorter recovery times, it is also: lessened fatigue and increased stamina and endurance. increased mental acuity and endurance Consider that even video gamers are starting to discuss how to regulate PED's, you know that certain PED's aid in this way. Take Adderall, for example. In 2012 there were mopre NFL suspensions for Adderall than any other drug, and Adderall is specifically designed to help increase mental awareness. Lance Armstrong also claimed to have pushed for stronger testing, and he sang from the Mountains he rode on that he was the most tested athlete in the world. He is a primary reason I stopped listening to athletes claiming innocense on this subject. Too many have cried wolf to fall for that nonsense. BTW, the Tour's version of PED testing is a joke. In Feb. 2013 54 Tour players, 25% of the Tour, were asked when they were last tested "off site". Turns out none of them had ever once been tested "off site". Contrast that to any NCAA or Olympic athlete. I love Golf, but the Tour's testing policies are a total joke.

Finchem was asked about Tiger's name being on that list. I think Finchem decided it best to not reveal anyone's name on the list. Why not just end all the speculation? Just a hunch, because that list is held by others too. Funny how Tiger won his last major in mid June 2008 in the event just prior to testing on the PGA Tour. Then he wins his last PGA event of any kind right about when the knowledge of that Biogenesis list surfaces. You can't make this stuff up.

I don't believe people think Tiger did or may have done PED's based so much on performance increases as they believe it because he was being treated b y a known PED and HGH dispenser like Galea. It is guilt through association. This wouldn't hold up in trial, but how else do you think investigators find PED abusers? They find their names on lists of people being treated by known peddlers like Galea and Lindsay. Here is something else to consider while thinking it totally impossible that Tiger could have possibly done anything. Look at how Tiger's own story on this has changed. When first asked about Galea and Lindsay it was 3 or 4 visits. It later became 14 visits. Only after a Florida Dept of :Public Health Investigation revealed additional information it ended up being 63 visits. Why did Tiger not just tell the whole story from day 1? ".

You actually get my point. I never said he "did" PED's.I technically didn't even say I believed he did PED's. What I said is that I believed it was possible he did PED's, which I stand behind. Despite all the claims to the contrary, that is what I actually wrote. That it is possible. People can place what ever value on that they wish. I won't be offended one bit.

Kikuyu grass is abundant in South Africa and is now widely used in Southern California. I have played on it and while golf course supers like it, I do not like it from a playing perspective. It is really thick and full of thatch. I feel as though any chip or pitch shot must be played with a very firm grip of the club. But that is just my opinion.

I didn't make a single claim in this thread that is not public knowledge. I have not made any accusations at all. If you think I have them quote them. Also quote my claim that Tiger "did" PED's. It doesn't exist. If ity does, you should be able to quote it. Go ahead, quote it. What I said is that I believe something is possible, and you are having a little fit about that. This board is amusing. The question gets asked regarding what people believe, but then some get really offended to find out that not everyone else shares their point of view. How do you people get along in life? Must be nothing short of impossible?

I believe it is highly possible. That is correct.

You wanna point out where I wrote that, because I never wrote that at all. BTW, your logic is terrible.

I have no earthly idea why anyone believes Tiger could be a Tight End. He is not big enough to be a TE. In 2006 when he won at Liverpool I believed he was close to being big enough to play safety or corner, and many golf commentators wrote things like this back in those days. There is enough there with Dr. Galea's conviction for me to believe it is possible for Tiger to have taken PED's from him. You are free to feel otherwise, fine by me. Why would that mean anything to me? I wouldn't expect them to just admit Tiger was using PED's. I think they'd have to be dragged into court to admit to something like that. He is also a guy who had a lot of athletes test positive, which is far more revelant to me as to the question of this thread, which asks what people believe. I don't have to prove anything here. No one does. The question isn't Do you have absolute proof Tiger took PED's, it is Do you believe he took PED's. I don't know with certainty one way or the other, but I hardly think you'd hire a PED dispenser like Galea for PRP treatments and then be shocked that some people connected you to PED's. If the cops are surveilling a known drug house and they see the same guy come and go every night for three weeks but have absolutely nothing else to go on do you not believe the detectives will think they have probable cause to stop the guy to see if he has drugs on him? I figured someone would bring this up, but this too is a non starter. The Surgeon In Utah is not known for dispensing PED's, he is known for doing back surgeries.

We are in total 100% agreement on this subject. I always limit the ability of my opponent to press. They typically hate it, but I'm not going to win most of the holes and not get paid for it.

There is direct evidence that Tiger had an ongoing relationship with Dr. Galea and his assistant Dr. Lindsay. There is also direct evidence that Galea is a PED dispenser. A convicted PED dispenser at that, and that Galea's intended targets for his PED dispensing are competitive athletes. Tiger's relationship with Galea then is circumstantial evidence of PED use. Circumstantial evidence is evidence that relies on an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact. Direct evidence that it snowed In Pennsylvania early Tuesday would be the testimony of someone who watched the snow actually fall, but indirect evidence would be the appearance of fresh snow itself. The whole thing about what Haney saw or did not see is a non starter. Woods saw Galea or his assistant 70+ times. By his own account Haney watched a few of those interactions only, so he has no direct knowledge at all what happened the other 66 times. There are other troubling aspects to this that nobody ever mentions. One full round of PRP treatments, the treatments Tiger claims to have been seeing Galea for, is two to three weeks. Let's assume Tiger is on the very short end of the range, two weeks. Then he'd see Galea or Lindsay every two weeks. Get a shot, re evaluate in two weeks, get a 2nd shot, re evaluate in 2 more weeks (continue). He saw those guys for like a year, or maybe a year and a half. That would be 35 to 40 rounds of treatments. Hard to believe anyone would continue with something that many times. Also, pretty much every decent Ortho practice in Central Florida does PRP on site. My own Ortho doctor here in Pennsylvania has suggested I do a series (meaning 3 to 4) of PRP treatments. So why does Tiger feel the need to leave all the top notch doctors in Florida who have the ability to treat him, and when he makes that decision, why does he then choose an obscure Canadian doctor with a history of dispensing PED's? If Tiger wanted to make people believe he was taking PED's, he succeeded. His fan base is seemingly impervious to the circumstial evidence surrounding Tiger and PED's.

Ha ha ha. I said these exact same things last week. I brought up Buster Douglas taking out Tiger and stripping him of his aura of invincibility. That Michael Collins is spot on. Tiger's confidence was taken from him and he cant find it.

Little OT: Well, I damn near died last week from a burst appendix. Doc said i definately waited too long to come to the emergency room. Getting out tomorrow after 6 days hosp. stay. I hope to never experience anything like that again. Not OT: I seem to recall a guy going for it in 2 making 8 and being pilloried. Jean Van De Velde. The stats cant read lies and green complexes. I trust the pros to know what they can and cannot do more than us msg. board pundits.