PerfectStriking

Here's the problem with this, you draw with the other clubs, so to say no matter what equipment you used would produce an open face at impact is just contradictory. If you used a cut down driver to 40 inches it may not or a ladies flex it may not. I'm going to give you a little advice now in this world there is no secret ingredient, everything is a continuum, no one is perfect and no one is the perfect dragon warrior. It is a trade off between having the absolutely best distance club in your hands with the shaft that works the best and the club you hit the most consistently, no matter what you swing, end of story not secret ingredient no perfect warrior. It is also a trade off at some point on whether it's worth the effort to change a swing or better fixed with a shaft change if your swing is good enough.

So what was your shot shape he proved no matter what you used never changed? To be honest I'm not sure whether what he said to you was inaccurate or you just misinterpreted it?

"no matter what club... same" if you were slicing or fading low he's misleading you because if he put a weak ladies flex in your hands your slice or low fade would most likely not be the result. Wouldn't be the right club for you, but he didn't explain why did he.

Ok so people saying this probably isn't a swing problem, but then saying it probably is seem not to be able to stop contradicting themselves, so I'll stick with my belief I've got a shaft problem easily fixed. Will let you know in a few weeks who was right ok 🙂 and after that if anyone makes the PGA tour I'll give you the credit to contradict yourself regardless of whether it makes sense.

Maybe your wife's clubs are great clubs who knows, I'd probably swing them better than yours right 🙂 The point is not everything is a swing problem and you unfortunately just reaffirmed that every teaching pro thinks that as the first reason. Native American 🙂 Indians are sub continental Asians, the European explorer who thought he found a shortcut to India mis-named them thus

Thanks Erik, yes I agree if I was hitting big slices I would say it was something I should fix before I looked at the club as the issue, but I suppose my recent posts show my frustration with my experiences of the last week or so as I have gone to many places where their are some golf teachers who also sell equipment on driving ranges as I really don't like indoor computer bays. What I experienced was really terrible they just seemed to want to change my swing, I really don't want to change a swing that produces what I think is the best distances I can achieve at my age nearly 50 with all other clubs I hit my 7 iron 165+ yards,my 3 wood 250 yards with 230 yards of carry, and all very straight and consistent flight and height, I just don't think that is in anyway unacceptable, so why would I change this swing to just make 1 club work, but that is what these guys, at least 2 of them definitely told me. Just really horrible experience IMHO. I should add there is the occasionally slice 1 in 4ish and I know what causes that I am trying to pull too hard to stop the low fade and that causes me to try to close my hands aggressively reacting to the club that is a little too harsh for me and that causes it, no one will listen so I give up and am buying a few shafts I believe will work on eBay if that doesn't work will go to a pro fitter.

Nearly anytime someone asks for advice saying that they are only fading their driver and hitting everything else straight a lot of responses seem to be it's a swing fault, this is the most obvious club related issue ever, and probably 80% of the time not to do with the swing, just gone through this with a lot of golf "pros" trying to sell me on changing my swing instead of what is obviously a club issue. I even told them that I hit an old burner 50g reax stiff straight and high and an newer 60g stiff fuijikura in an M2 further but lower and fade, and the penny still doesn't drop. Just don't go near anyone who has teaching qualifications if you are looking to solve an obvious equipment problem IMHO, paying for someone with shaft fitting ability that assures you they are not going to talk about swing changes is worth the money IMHO.

As a doctor you can't possibly believe just because a doctor or medical scientist wasn't practicing or researching in the last 10 years they must have been a bad doctor or scientist? I thought only millennials thought that way. So people like Pasteur, Curie and Vesalius were obvious fakes that did nothing to help medical science and it was all just feelings they had not based in any science at all right? This site isn't just about talking about one guy, he runs the site for open discussion not to shut down discussion every time someone has a different thought and so no need to bring every discussion about modern teaching back to some personal attack on him.

Hi Vinsk, I think the point is that golf teaching hasn't become a science it has become a religion or some kind of order and the top guys are like the renaissance heretics and the rest of us are living in the dark ages, even Jack seems to need to hide his real beliefs about modern teaching... "Every other sport is played from the ground up ...This used to be true with golf, but today I see it being taught with the upper body dominating, partly because modern equipment is so much lighter." Jack Nicklaus It wouldn't be the first time society ended up this way right?

Feel the Force Erik, if you only knew the power of the Dark Side of Golf

This is another good article from David Leadbetter about the power from the ground and force into the ground from the feet especially in transition being a big difference between pros and us... David Leadbetter: Get More Distance Out Of The Ground - Golf Digest 3 power moves the pros make that you don't.

One last one, if you want to "cure" it without any swing change just get a golf club shaft with a higher kick point, that will hit it lower.

Well maybe some people are better just eating a little less or exercising rather than taking a pill right? But we digress 🙂

Hi Erik, "their 'feet' and lower bodies have always started the transition", here "feet" is used in the meaning of the plural of the word foot, I can't be any clearer than quoting that from Flick, Erik. From this I am certain Flick and Nicklaus are saying they don't think the transition starts back with a turn with their hips and a passive right foot. Try this for yourself pull yourself around from the back of your swing with just your feet and calves and inner thigh muscles and maybe glutes by just pulling your legs left and open from pulling against the ground (right hander) (note Jack says his knee goes left at the start of his downswing) and don't turn your hips or torso at all. You will find if you try this that you can generate a lot of pull from the ground at the start of the transition and your upper body rotates (you might think magically) without engaging anything above your butt and without turning your hips and torso and chest at all, not saying you shouldn't just that the legs can be far more active from the feet to start the pulling transition of your upper body rather than a flat week hip turn. If you find it possible to generate some turn like this then this is not magic it's real and that force exists and you have just not understood that it existed as a possibility with all due respect. I also believe that terminating the lower body with active leg muscles for the arms to swing through is better than terminating with a single leg joint lock and leads to far more stability and therefore control and perhaps stops power leak as terminating the lower body strongly is what a straight left leg is meant to be all about right, otherwise what's the point at all? Cheers Erik

Flatten out your swing plane and don't get so front on when you hit the ball will definitely "cure" it, now whether that causes you another whole world of difficulty to "cure", particularly pull left is another thing to think about right? There really is no secret ingredient in the swing that "fixes" everything it is a balance to get perfect between too high / too low, too open / too closed, too fast / too slow, too early / too late, too strong / too weak and that is for everything ball, club, every joint and every muscle, so it's a fun game right!

Ball position is another whole issue right? Interestingly in Golf My Way Jack said one position, but hard to say right? I think one position obviously doesn't work with the modern driver but if all balls are hit off the ground / very low tee probably one position works, I hit it out of about centre + / - 1 ball so nearly centre for everything off the ground which is all clubs and all shots except the driver and the driver is different right! That driver head is just so big! Jack hit it out of more of a forward position for everything, but maybe that is because the equipment was generally harder to swing through and get the face closed, I don't even carry a 6 iron, hybrid and fairways from 6 up. No matter what any teaching pro says I believe you can get a much more consistent swing from getting a consistent feel and club swing across all your clubs and distances, for instance a 90 gram iron shaft equates to a 50 gram driver shaft feel and 110 to a 60, but try explaining that to a teaching pro who will say you just need to correct your swing fault, yeah right the club is making my swing fault and different swing reacting to the different club feel but that is all in my head right? Ball position could be a whole year of trial and error IMHO it will mess with your head but maybe that is just what we all have to go through, I've settled now and won't change so good luck!

I might just let Jack Nicklaus and Jim Flick have my last words on this to show I'm not trying to make up something that just "worked" for me once, I'm actually trying to learn what the greatest player and one of the greatest coaches meant when they said... "Every other sport is played from the ground up ...This used to be true with golf, but today I see it being taught with the upper body dominating, partly because modern equipment is so much lighter." Jack Nicklaus "Under pressure, can you make the transition from the top as consistently when the upper body controls the swing as when the feet and legs control it? ... The greatest ball-strikers--from Bobby Jones, Sam Snead and Ben Hogan, to Jack, Tiger and now Rory McIlroy--have all initiated the swing from the ground up. To control the clubface and put the ball in the target area, their feet and lower bodies have always started the transition to support the free swinging of the hands and arms." Jim Flick Jim Flick And Jack Nicklaus: How To Start Down - Golf Digest Swing from the ground up for a powerful transition.

Imagine trying to hit a golf ball standing on ice and see if you can visualise making a good shot, that's the problem with passive use of the legs and simply straightening your left leg, I think a lot of my bad shots come from my legs behaving weakly and not grabbing the ground and firming up the muscles (not joints) through impact. I'll think about posting my swing but it really is more about concentrating on separating my use of my legs from the rest of my swing and the upper body, in fact I may just post the use of my legs without swinging. What about the more powerful trailing leg side? And how should both legs including the abs and glutes work together what is their shared purpose into and at impact?

Hey have you ever done the dominant eye test, if not just put one finger up in the air and align it with something a couple of metres away with both eyes open, then close your left eye and then open your left eye and close your right eye, if the finger moves more away from the thing you lined up with when only your left eye is open then you are naturally right handed and if it moves away more when only your right eye is open you are naturally left handed. I'd say if you learned to play golf with the wrong handedness especially if you are strongly one handed like me and the finger moves a long way for one eye and nothing for the dominant one then you may have a problem with playing well in general IMHO.

In golfer slang you are "hitting it one groove down" 🙂

Johnny Miller tells a story about playing a round with Jack Nicklaus. Jack shot 66, but Johnny thought his irons sounded clunky and afterward he mentioned it to him. Jack’s reply was "I was practicing hitting it one groove down." This is also a more recent classic Miller / Nicklaus moment.

Nicklaus sometimes practiced this way in practice rounds. I vary but as I don't even carry a 6 iron I have hybrids 6 up I tend to be a far more shallow divots on those. I would be interested do you tee up shots with irons and fairway woods? I don't anymore as I want to have a consistent attack on the ball for all clubs and all tee and fairway shots except driver.

Thanks Erik, I should pay you for this as you have just saved me going to a teacher as I was going to ask exactly this from one of them, but I thought they would have this answer and so if I don't agree this is the way to use my legs into impact I will just have to find my own way or learn the hard way I am wrong 🙂 thanks again!

What is taught on and at and through impact for the leg muscles other than just straightening a joint and following with your right leg? It would be a great help for me to know. Particularly I'd be interested to know what active use of leg muscles you've seen taught into, at and through impact not in the back swing and especially the right leg? It really is a mystery.

Hi, I'm not saying keep it bent, I'm saying the concept of just straightening the joint in the left leg through impact and ignoring the muscles working in other ways in the leg and the right leg muscles almost totally into and at impact and through seems too passive and simple when the legs are so strong and capable of doing so much more a la Jack Nicklaus. Imagine doing a dead lift in weights and being told you just need to straighten your left leg joint or sprinting 50 metres and being told just straighten your left leg as you run, I don't know about you but I think most people think about their muscles in both legs doing these activities not the straightness of one of their leg joints. It seems to be just too passive and simplistic to me. Out of interest what active leg muscle usage have you been taught into, at and through impact excluding the back swing?