CrashTestDummy

Of course course difficulty, design, and setup slows play. Yes, those course metrics are out of our control. So, why do you guys keep constantly talking about course metrics out of our control? The thread was originally made to discuss what individuals can do to speed up pace of play. Not how to get companies to change their course design and setup or how we can control the weather to speed up play.

First of all, you sent a link to a book that is "unavailable" so it can't be read. Next, I read your Out of Time Bill Yates thread and you paraphrased many of the main points of Bill Yates book and yes those factors slow play, but every course has a standard round time. Some courses may be 4 hours, some may be 5 hours. It is totally dependent on the course difficulty, course design, and course conditions. Yes, we cannot change those. Then why do guys you keep constantly talking about those other factors when they do not help the pace pace of play for this thread and total downplay or dismiss talking about what individual players can do to speed up play? This is a thread on "slow play" and improving it. So, you say I am just "feeling" what I think? That is comical. I worked on a golf course and marshalled when I worked there. We had a saying, "A group is as slow as the slowest player and the course is as slow as the slowest group." When you marshal a course, you can easily see who is slowing up the course and which individuals are the slowest of groups. I suggest you marshal on a golf course to gain some real life experience with it rather than how you "feel" about some theories in a book. So what can players do individually? Taking more strokes does take more time, so those players should try to cut their shot time down. Simple.

Golfers are "a tiny part" of pace of play? Not sure you or your expert can say golfers are just " a tiny part of pace of play." I read your thread post "Out of Time" Bill Yates. I don't agree that golfers are a tiny part in pace of play. Then with that logic, the Pro tours, USGA, college golf, junior golf, and this thread should not be talking about any measures that golfers should be doing to speed up their shot time, or other time savings because it is just a "tiny part in pace of play". Good luck with that. 😂 FYI: I did google J1Q and it showed nothing remotely related. Try it.

Cool story bro. Whatever you say. "Strong opinions, held loosely." I guess that sums it up. 🤪😂 What is J1Q? You never defined that.

I disagree with you that if you are getting hit into, you are slow. The vast majority of times over the years that I or the group has gotten hit into, we in the middle of the fairway and we were waiting for the green to clear. Players should absolutely not be hitting into groups. If groups are too slow in front and they have nobody in front of them, ask to play through.

Yeah, I understand the mentality of players wanting to take their time to analyze shots. The PGA tour and tournament golf is total different scenario than rounds at the golf course. The PGA players are playing golf as their job and for their livelihoods, so it is understandable they take longer to play. Yeah, it is not breaking news to me that "total shot time" takes more time and those taking more shots need to spend less time on each shot, but some here don't think that is one of the issues to improving pace of play which puzzles me and bringing that up seems to stepping on a nerve.

So, you have been playing golf for 20 years, but you don't see it any worse today than 30 years ago? How do you know what it was like 30 years ago, if you have only been playing golf for 20 years? I have experience countless times over the years being in the middle of the fairway waiting for the green to clear and the behind group hits balls into me or the group without yelling fore. It is not a good excuse to say that you didn't think you would hit it that far. Why not just way till the fairway clears? Perhaps the powers that be put a lot of inconsiderate golfers around me.

That is exactly my point. Higher handicappers should take less time to play their shots because their "total time to play their shots" is longer. Lower handicap players are able take more time to play their shots because their "total time to play their shots" is much less than a player that takes a lot of strokes. The math does matter because it is directly related to improving pace of play. There is no way around it. Taking more shots, takes more time. So, in order to improve pace people taking more shots should decrease their shot time. Since everyone is all about pushing the pace of play faster, then that should be one of the issues that needs to be addressed.

I know what things were like 20 years ago and disruptions on the course have definitely increased over the years. Like I said, you must live in a bubble where random strangers around you are more respectful to you and strictly follow the rules of etiquette. Must be nice.

You don't find common ground on the other breaches of etiquette I mentioned? That seems odd to me. It was obvious to me if you play enough golf and know the rules of etiquette, you know what breaches rules of etiquette have increased over the years. You really must be in a bubble where people strictly adhere to the etiquette rules. Must be nice.

I see an increase of a lot of the rules of etiquette being broken. Okay, I will point out the obvious examples for you, since you must live in a bubble where people strictly adhere to the rules of etiquette around you. Hitting into people (many not accidentally because people are in direct sight in the fairway), not yelling fore. Talking, talking on cellphones, not having cell phones on mute, and moving around when people are hitting. Loud music, loud disruptive behavior on the golf course, stepping in lines, etc, etc, Just inconsiderate of any of the other golfers on the course. Are you happy now? 😜 Then why did you feel the need to list your credentials?

Not sure what your golf credentials have to do with the discussion, but if you want to discuss credentials as being relevant. Here are mine, I have playing golf since I was 5, played competitive junior golf, been in the golf scene my entire life. Have family members that played professional golf, one is on a full ride scholarship for golf at D1 school right now and been playing PGA qualifiers. I have worked at golf course, worked at a golf architecture firm, coached and caddie for junior golf, and currently affiliated with a golf company. Still not sure how any of that is relevant though.

Yes, pace of play is different for every course, but there is a pace of play that is average for a particular course. However, you keep bringing up calculations of shot time and walking time, but refuse to acknowledge or say that is irrelevant that taking more shots takes more time. If all things being equal with shot time, taking more strokes takes more time, period. Shot time is shot time. The clocks starts when it is your turn to play. The more strokes a player takes, the less shot time they should take to keep pace. The more strokes a player take, the more total time it takes to play their shots if other players taking less shots have the same shot time. Not sure why you don't acknowledge that fact. Not sure you are really concerned with improving pace of play then. We don't you need my example? Who is we? Am I debating against a gang? 😜 I'm just debating the issue. This is a forum for discussion and debate, isn't it? Also, why do you not want my examples when you keep hounding me for examples on rules of etiquette when it is obvious what rules of etiquette that many don't know or don't follow on the golf course. 😜😂

The examples are not adhering to all those rules of etiquette. Over the years, I have seen all those rules of etiquette being broken. I do not need to write all of those things. You know what they are. Are you just trying to troll? I'm just debating the subject. Saying you don't know examples of the rules etiquette being broken tells me you don't know what the rules of etiquette are. I don't think this you folks like any debate, discussion, or opinions that don't align with your opinions and take them as a threat. I'm just discussion the debate. Forums are supposed to be for discussion and debate.

But it doesn't seem you are calculating and comparing a player's "total shot time" because it is directly related to pace of play. You only think that a players "single shot time" is the barometer of how fast a player is which does not determine the real pace of play of that player. There are good players that are faster as well, however, good players can take longer per shot because their total shot time is faster than higher handicappers. Total shot time is definitely related to pace of play. I'll post my example again. If you had two players both taking the same amount of time per shot (40 seconds). One shooting 75 and another shooting 95. The player shooting 75 would take 50 minutes to take all their shots. The player shooting 95 would take 63.33 minutes to take all their shot. The player shooting 95 is roughly taking 25% more time to take all their shots. So, the player shooting 75 actually in reality could take longer to take their shots (50 seconds per shot) and their total time taking shots would be similar to someone who is taking 40 seconds per shot.