My Swing (Hogan Project)

[Hogan Project]

Quote:

When I first started reading your thread I thought you had a serious interest in swinging like Hogan. I think that is a noble goal. To be basically a "side show" act is far less noble. The video of Monty is mocking him, so you want to learn how to mock Hogan? The fact that you won't even read the book to which he claimed he put everything he knew about in the swing into makes this seem like a farce.

As an aside, I do think they will eventually make a Hogan movie and potentially you could be the lead based on all your work.

This is not a serious interest. It is an enjoyable hobby that I could do for hours upon hours. It involves all the things that are fun too me: strategic planning, goal setting, physics, science, sweating, effort, training, green grass, self-competition, physiology, kinesiology, geometry, tough things, learning, etc.

I do understand what you mean by "side show." The video of Richard Elliot doing the impression of, or mocking Monty may appear to you that he is doing this in a joking manner, and he may well be, but have you actually done a complete analysis/comparison of the two swings? I did. P1 thru P10; they are spot on.

[Hogan Project]

I played my final round of the season this past Saturday. I won our year-end tournament with a stinky 92........hey! no laughing lol! I may have 6-putted a few greens, but I still came away with the victory! I used my Hogan takeaway/upswing that I have been working on for the past month, combined with my "just swing down and hope the ball is in the fairway" swing. I was doing the same P1 thru P4 moves you saw on the 'Take 10' video. Then P5 was literally a "just turn my brain off and swing down and around towards the ball and pull my hands around and up my left pants-pocket." Ball still has that model-rocket sound when it leaves the ground with 3W, 5W, 4Hy, and 3Hy. Irons have no distinct sound.

The trophy is mine to keep until we get back on the course in March 2012. I sure am glad that the "friendly competition" is over, because it was detracting from my swing project. Even though I am supposed to only be in the basement working on the takeaway/upswing, I still had to worry about making contact with the ball, because of our Saturday morning golf outings, and because I wanted to be able to respectably keep up with the guys out there. That was a big mistake; not a good idea to tear a car down and work on the suspension/lifters/camshaft, and at the same time, putting it in the local Friday nite quarter-mile race for the pink slip. Soooooo, now that "keeping the ball in the fairway" is over, and the competetive ego is put aside for a few months, I can now put my balls away and get deep into the "swing" of things lol.

I recall someone asking me which Hogan swing I would be focusing on. They asked:
Pre-secret good Hogan (1942-1946), or
Post-secret/pre-accident Hogan ('46-'49), or
Post-accident to last win ('50-'59), or
Old-man Hogan ('60's +)

For now, I've been training my P1 thru P4 using the Shell Wide World of Golf vids, which I think is part of the post-accident era. Well, almost time to open the chapter of transition, P5, and P6, and after experimenting with a few moves, this appears impossible! What the heck was this dude's ligaments and tendons made of???! WHEW!! I think Old-Man Hogan is the easiest to work towards, because it involves a lot less flexibility, and the available videos of him in the yellow, Mister Rogers sweater are of reasonably good quality/resolution. But, you know, I like tough things (hmmmm, I think I've heard that somewhere before lol), and the Old-Man version of Hogan is just not as exciting as the mid-life version.

So......onward I go men, with hopes that I don't pull my scapula out of my humerus and clavicle socket too far. CHARGE!!!!

[Hogan Project]

I got a question asking how my ball flight was doing.

Right now, there is no ball flight, cause I'm done with the course/range till March.

Everything related to the swing project is going down in the 1st floor, Computer Simulation/Biomechanical, Physio-kinetic swing labratory, which has multiple State-of-the-Art, super-hi tech 2-dimensional swing analysis devices, and NASA-level advanced focus lighting ...........ummmm............better known as my basement with a laptop, iphone, and Walmart spotlight lol.

I do hit a ball sometimes, just to see if it goes into my canvas net, or ricochets off the brick wall and goes out my garage window. Last week, my neighbor said he was violently brought out of his sleep by the sound of shattering glass. Said he stepped outside to investigate and was about to call 911, until he heard the repeating hits of my golf club. I was working on keeping my head down, and somehow that made me hit it real fat; the ball popped straight up over the canvas wall, and out the garage window. The funny part of it all is watching me right after the glass shattered lololol. I immediately put the club down, turned off the lights, and swiftly shut everything down without hesitation...........like my mom was gonna get me lol. Hey.....I pay the rent in this muthuh! I've got to put together a video showing nothing but my mishits and shanks; they are hilarous!!

Sooo, that's 2 plexiglass windows 49.5" x 17.5" at Ace hardware total cost $42.02, and a couple of "I told ya so's" by Kim.

Regarding the swing, I'm getting excited by the transition and right elbow move. So far, this part is easier than the takeaway was! Didn't say it was easy, but easier than the takeaway. I'll get some videos up tonite.

[Hogan Project]

This vid is all about the right leg. I noticed something really different about it in all the past videos. Made a change; now, it feels like I am opening the right leg as the club comes down.

Also, major grip change. The left wrist now has left thumb going straight down the shaft at address, and the face of the club is VERY, VEEEEEERY open. So open, that I was afraid to swing, because I thought ball would go into the basement brick wall to the right. Took me about a week to get the guts to make a full swing, but when I finally did, contact was EXTRA solid. Wish I could try this new setup on the course!!

Regarding the transition, I know and understand what Hogan is doing, but I'm not focusing on it in this video.

One issue I'm having with the basement is that I am unable to make a full follow-thru because of club wanting to explode upwards as it comes out of my left shoulder. I'll deal with it till March.

[uttexas]

Enjoying your thread. You definitely have good athletic reflexes...don't think I saw you miss a grounder off your ball net/rug set up. I'm sure you've watched the Wayne DeFrancesco Hogan analysis video--Good DTL and FO videos. Notice in the back swing and downswing how Hogan's right elbow and humerus stay in front of his right shirt seam (the seam that runs down the side of the shirt from mid armpit straight down the side of the shirt). Early in the back swing, you are swinging under your elbow plane going back and go above the shoulder plane a bit...this contributes to you swinging over the elbow plane going into impact. Hogan swings initially back on the elbow plane, then up to the shoulder plane, then back down to the elbow plane going into impact.

[Hogan Project]

Experimenting with the transition. Why isn't the transition happining better? Because I am stinkin scared! I haven't gained enough confidence to turn my shoulders away from the ball as I should be. I'm turning maybe 75% worth, when it should be 100%. What is the fear?? Hard to explain, but the further I turn away from the ball, the more I think I won't be able to get back to it and square the face. With the face this open at address, it just doesn't seem like I will get it closed, and the ball will shoot rightwards, then ping-pong around my basement and clock me in the groin or eye! My mind knows this is just not true, but my mind and body still haven't become trusting friends yet. Then Kim will have another official "I told you so" moment, and yap yap yap about me hitting a ball in the house in the first place lol. Sooooooo, until I get enough courage to make a full shoulder turn, I will be a bit over-the-top as I come down.

How have I proven this fear theory? When there is no ball in front of me, I easily make a complete turn, and the transition looks goooooooood.

My plan was to work on the swing for a couple of months without a ball, but at the end of those two months, whenever I decided to put a ball in front of me, I would probably turn from tough manly-man, into fragile-flower-man. So I will keep the ball there..................for now.

0:00 5-iron DTL
0:25 5-iron FL
0:58 5-wood DTL
1:10 1-wood DTL
1:48 450cc Driver DTL (ball sitting on mat, no tee)
2:15 5-metal DTL
2:22 5-iron FL slow mo replay
2:48 5-iron DTL slow mo replay

[uttexas]

I'm liking that 5 iron DTL slo mo, you are making progress. Continue with the back swing plane and right elbow work. Also, I realize that Hogan had a bent right knee look at impact, but you are exaggerating it a bit, straighten the right leg more going into impact. Please post more face on views--Hogan had a beautiful hip push forward toward starting as he approached the top of the back swing then even more in the down swing. Your mimicry method is working.

[Hogan Project]

Time to answer some emailed questions. Most are from youtube. All gave permission for me to post these........well maybe except one.

(Q:) How much time do you put into the Hogan Swing project each day? I'm doing somethin similar, but not based on any pro swing. I'm just doing my own, but I'm trying to see if I can become a scratch.  What do you think about Hogan compared to the Stack and Tilt? That's what I'm working on. I see some of the footage of Hogan and there is some S&T; there. You know, Hogan was self taught too like waht you're doing. Good videos !

(A:) Right now, about an hour a day of actual swinging of the club and/or drills. About another hour of video comparison and Hogan analysis. And while driving to work/on the elliptical, I have the iPhone on a nonstop loop. I would recommend you to pick a pro as a baseline. It would give you something to compare yourself to. Someone that has super high resolution footage!! Unless you're just interested in scoring and the aesthetics don't matter. Sorry, I don't know anything about stack and tilt. Your swing looks good. Follow thru reminds me of Tiger. How's the progress? What handicap did you start at?

[Hogan Project]

(Q: ) The take 12 video looks good! What you're doing is very interesting. Keep at it. It would be good if you had a casio high resolution camera.  You must have a natural nack at visual learning. That style wouldn't work for me. I have a hard enough time with an instructor standing right beside me. I'm wondering why do you swing so slowly? Is this some type of drill? Does this have some kind of intention, like Hogan's concentration drill? It's like your backswing is in slow motion or something. What's the secret to making your hips pivot and go nonstop? Mine turn just fine when I'm going from P1 to P6, but when I get right around impact, they stop, then start again. Your's are pivoting like Hogan's nonstop. Would love to play a round one day with a guy that swings like Hogan! I've been playing about 23 years now and I'm a 5. What's your handicap and where are you from? You said you aren't going out to the corse again till March. Must be cold there. YOu must be in the upper east coast area. Hit me up on my cell. Thanks.

(A: ) Thanks XXXXXXXXXXXX. I think all us humans have a natural nack at visual learning. I think the problem comes when we want to learn visually, but realize that we are learning from a pro, or a master at their craft, then we say "naaaaah, there's no way I can do that cause I'm just a plain guy." The pro has 2 arms and 2 legs just like you! When I started all this "nonsense" (that's what my wife calls it), I said that anybody could duplicate Hogans swing. I need to make a small change to that statement. ANYBODY THAT CAN HIT EVERY HOGAN STATIC POSITION CAN DUPLICATE THE SWING. The difficult part is putting all the static still shots together. When I show my buddies all the static moves, they say "damn, that's all Hogan's doing." But when they try to instantly put all the statics together, they look like they are bowling, or playing tennis, or doing some other swinging sport. Nothing against your instructor, but if they can't do the moves, or can't logically explain them, I'm not sure I would be trusting them with my learning. For me, visual is all I have to go by. I haven't met anyone that can do and teach the Hogan swing.

Why does my takeaway and backswing look so slow? Cause at this point, I'm just a Hogan infant. I'm just learning how to crawl lol. Hopefully in about a few months, I'll graduate to toddler, then teenager, then get my real Hogan drivers liscense. Until then, all movements need to be slow and calculated so I can engrain them into muscle memory. All of it is one big swing drill.

My hips: It's funny that you bring that up! In the beginning, I was also focused/worried about the highly discussed Hogan pivot. Funny part is that I look at the Take 12 vid and notice that the hips are kinda pivoting like they should be, but I haven't thought anything about them.....AT ALL. Now I gotta look back at my notes and figure out when this started happening. I think it was around the time I was focusing on the right leg movement. Lol, I'm not gonna think about the hips; heck, that might change the transition or something lol.

I shoot in the mid to high 90's from the white tees. Low score is 92. I don't have an official handicap. I'm in the Atlanta, Ga area. I'm not avoiding the course because of the weather, just avoiding the competetive ego, and to get deeper into understanding the swing.

[Hogan Project]

(Q: ) Hey man this is starting to get good. You said that you are addressing the ball with the club wide open now and the left thumb straight down the shaft. Sounds just like what Hogan was doing when he found his secret. Can you do a video closep of yoou grip? What happens for yuo if the club is square? You need to reearch HOgan's equipment too. They were super heavy and the faces were bent open. IMO, I think you ahve already discovered Hogans secret.So waht the F is it!??!! I'm tired of chasing this crap! Driving me insane. Pay me no mind. Just my personal rant and venting session LOL! And who's your instructor. Nobody can just all of a sudden start teach themselves to swing like Hogan in their basement. Come on.

(A: ) If I use my new weak grip, and address the ball with the face square, ball will go very hard left. When I experimented with this, first few balls just went to left side of the canvas net, near the PVC frame. When I got the nerve to swing harder, ball missed the net and went into my wife's garage door on the left side. So I MUST keep it wide open. That's why I'm telling everyone I am somewhat fearful to make a full swing now. The club looks veeeeeweeey strange with the toe flipped to the back when it is adressing the ball.

LOLOL! Cool quote! This should be on a t-shirt "Hogans secret. So what the F is it!??!! I'm tired of chasing this crap! Driving me insane."

Ok, since you took the time to email me, I'll fess up. My instructor is this dude that's in a bunch of youtube videos. He wears a white hat, and khakis. They call him "The Hawk" or something lol. Couldn't resist lol. But seriously, all I'm doing is what I see in the Hogan videos.

[Hogan Project]

(Q:) You're scared of the ball???? LOLOLOLROFLMAO. You're just another fu**ing Charles Barkley. Get a life. What a crock and a waste. Just swing like the sh*ty swing you were born withand forget all this Hogan wannabe bull****. F**k you very much for wasting my time!

(A:) Uhhhhh, not really scared of the ball when it is just sitting there, but a bit terrified if I shank one off the wall and it becomes my new eyeball.

LOLOLOLOL (I don't know why I'm laughing, but I don't want you to have all the fun by yourself, but I wasn't talented enough to laugh myself onto the floor like you did lol. I'll keep trying though).

Sorry, there are no crocodiles around here, just a few crickets and spiders.

It's actually a semi-waste; this has helped me get brand new garage windows, that are now plexiglass and unbreakable. Yes!!

But I AM swinging the sh*ty swing I was born with lol.

Anytime sir!.....or ma'am.

[Hogan Project]

(Q:) I see the Hogan transition in your swing. Damn, I've been trying to do that for 10 years now lol! And you already got it figured out in a couple of months. You need to get this put on the Gold Channel so they can get rid of the Big Break. I need a closer view of the hands at P4 and P5. Best to do this with a high speed camera then I can really understand how the transition happens. Check out my youtube channel for my swings from front and down the line. Let me know what you think the problem is. Thanks for the laughs too! Great sense of humor.

(A:) I admit that I am starting to understand what Hogan is doing, but I haven't figured everything out, or how to apply all of it..............YET. Golf Channel, nahhhh, not enough old schoolers out there to make enough of a case to get a Hogan viewership. Now if this was a Ricky Fowler project, very possible.....but wait a minute.......then, I would have to wear all orange pants, orange shoes, orange bent, orange unders, orange hat, orange socks to work lol! Your swing looks good. I have no idea what you are working on, but it's a bit herky jerky, but then again look at my sucky swing...what the heck do I know! You should ask an actual teaching pro about your inside takeaway.

[Hogan Project]

(Q:) Where's the audio you promissed? This would be a lot easier for me if you just explained exactly what you are doing in your videos. Like Sevam1 did in his back yard. Check him out on youtube.Man, youre doin all this ffrom your basement! I never would have thought you could actualy work on the full swing inside like that. I'm looking forward to your next video WITH SOUND AND EXPLANATIONS.

(A:) Hey, I never promised any audio, I just said I would look into it. So, I'm still looking lol. Yah, of course I've seen all the sevam1 vids. The difference between us is that he actually knows what he is talking about. I'm still trying to figure it out. When I get the next video out, I'LL THINK ABOUT DOING IT WITH SOUND AND EXPLANATIONS.

[outlaw1984]

Can you relate to us on how ur feel at address....he said in five lessons and on the ed sullivan show that they need to be as if they were glued to ur sides.........do you feel this??????

[Hogan Project]

Quote:

Enjoying your thread. You definitely have good athletic reflexes...don't think I saw you miss a grounder off your ball net/rug set up.

I'm sure you've watched the Wayne DeFrancesco Hogan analysis video--Good DTL and FO videos. Notice in the back swing and downswing how Hogan's right elbow and humerus stay in front of his right shirt seam (the seam that runs down the side of the shirt from mid armpit straight down the side of the shirt). Early in the back swing, you are swinging under your elbow plane going back and go above the shoulder plane a bit...this contributes to you swinging over the elbow plane going into impact. Hogan swings initially back on the elbow plane, then up to the shoulder plane, then back down to the elbow plane going into impact.

Thanks! But trust me, I've missed plenty of shots off my mat. I'll be sure to start an archive of all the bad shots. Most of my misses with the irons are shanks; where I went to the top of the swing and didn't turn the shoulders and not get the left arm enough around/ behind me. This results in extreme over-the-top and hozel ends up hitting the ball first. In this case, ball always shoots towards the extreme right side of the canvas net, sometimes as far right as into the brick wall. I've proven this with my video analysis, and by simply standing further away from the ball.

Yes, I've seen just about every Hogan video analysis I can find. DeFrancesco has a good one. The only problem I have with some Hogan video analysis is listening to the person give the analysis. Example: When someone narrates and says "as you can plainly see, Hogan's is trying to supinating the right wrist during transition. This is his intention. Doing this allowed him to hit the ball high, just as he wanted to." The narration is what I don't agree with. None of us have a clue what he is trying to do with the right wrist. We have no idea what his intention was. We have no idea what he wanted to do. We have an idea of what we see, but cannot ask Hogan what he feels in his wrist while transitioning. When the narrator gives their personal point-of-view, this influences the reader, or watcher of the video. Initially,  followed a few of the popular professional instructor analysis out there and it really screwed me up, because I was listening to what the narrator was saying; as I watched the video, I had no idea what was happening, but when the narrator said what they "thought" he was doing, I agreed with it cause I had nothing else to go by. Based on what I've discovered so far with my project, I found that a lot of the narrators are waaaayy off. So my rule is, if an instructor can't even come close to actually peforming what he is preaching, I mute the audio and just watch. That's the #1 reason that I don't do audio in my videos right now; I don't want to give the incorrect influence to someone, cause I have no idea what I am doing lol.

Question: I don't understand the "right shirt seam" stuff. From what view???? DTL, FO, FL, FR, Rear???

[Hogan Project]

Quote:

Can you relate to us on how ur feel at address....he said in five lessons and on the ed sullivan show that they need to be as if they were glued to ur sides.........do you feel this??????

Regarding the 5 lessons book: I haven't read it yet. Right now, I'm only reading Hogan's videos and photos.

Sounds like you're talking about the elbows. On certain swings, I do feel my elbows glued, but on others, there is some space. My felling is that my triceps are glued; I'll have to verify that.

Take a look at the Hogan vids here. Looks to me that right elbow is not glued. I see space between elbow and body.First vid at :58 sec mark. Second vid at :07 sec mark I've discovered a lot of variations in Hogans swings over the years. If I were focused on using these particular videos as my training device, I would not glue them.

Hmmmm. maybe on the Ed Sullivan show, Hogan was describing what his elbows "felt" like. I have no idea.

[uttexas]

Right shirt seam. When you iron some shirts, there is a seam that runs from mid armpit straight down the side of the shirt. If you watch hogan from dtl, his right elbow stays in front of this seam

[Hogan Project]

Quote:

Right shirt seam. When you iron some shirts, there is a seam that runs from mid armpit straight down the side of the shirt. If you watch hogan from dtl, his right elbow stays in front of this seam

Yaah, that's the seam I thought you were referring to. But the confusing part is that I see his elbow always going behind the seam. You will have to post the video you are referring to so I have a clear understanding.